News Us politics - read first post before comment

[UnKnown-Self]

One more thing. Sexual misconduct is not a political, Hollywood or even just a US problem. It’s a worldwide distorted way of thinking that has and still is destroying vulnerable children, women and men.
We will know real progress is being made when men start speaking out. Unfortunately, that seems the only times our voices are heard.

 

[scout86]

Let me start by saying that what Franken is accused of was gross and disgusting and totally out of line. Personally, I don't think it's grounds for him to resign, all by itself. I'd he's still doing stuff like that, I'd say that's different. (Clearly he's not stupid enough to provide photographic evidence these days.)

I've got a couple problems with the idea of this being grounds for resignation. First, I'd be willing to bet he's got plenty of colleagues who've done similar things and haven't been caught. (Yet?) How much effort should we put in to ferreting them all out? Where do you stop? Second, what he's been accused of so far is gross, disgusting, childish, immature, all that, but I don't think it rises the level of being something you could prosecute someone for. (Which sets it apart from Moore.) Do we just throw senators out for gross disgusting behavior related to sex, or will any gross disgusting behavior do? Can we their them our for being childish? (Then most of them are at risk, aren't they?) How far back do we go trying find evidence they aren't fit to serve? Do we leave them a way to redeem themselves? Or does one transgression disqualify them for life?

I can see see scenario where the payoff for coming up with charges like this would be great enough to turn it into a cottage industry. What if the accused actually IS innocent? (Franken's not, but what if?) Does the person get to defend themselves or is an accusation enough?

I'm for an ethics investigation. If he has a track record of doing stuff like this that's ongoing, I'd say throw him out. Otherwise? I think we have bigger issues to deal with.

I've been WAY more surprised about the accusations against Bush the 1st. Franken, like someone else said, has a history of using crude humor. Bush came off as classier than that. (I thought!) I wonder how many presidents we've actually had who DIDN'T engage in gross disgusting behavior?

 

[Rumors]

Why does being a bad human being have to be about political affiliation? Franken has nothing to do with Moore and the opposite the same. They are both bad humans. Period. I guess I get sick of how everyone policitizes the situation. Franken resigning should have nothing to do with Moore. They both have made terrible decisions in life and there should be consequences. I wouldn’t vote for either of them even before this news.

 

[hodge]

If any guy has it in him to redeem himself by taking this up and facing it head on, it's Franken. (Largely because he has Frannie; at least I hope he still has Frannie.) I hope he does that. That would probably be one of the most important things he could ever do. I'm not holding my breath. But it would be great if he took that step. Otherwise, it's all up to us women. We can do it, but it would be nice to have an ally.

 

[scout86]

I'd feel better about removing him from office if I knew there would be a quality replacement. Do you suppose it would work to start a movement to draft Alan Page?

I've also been thinking about the criteria for resigning from office. If you should resign based on one credible report of "gross and disgusting behavior", does the same standard apply across the board, or just to Congress? Just to elected officials, or to everyone in all professions?

 

[hodge]

Well, for one thing, we do have a Dem governor so we would get another Dem senator and MN is full of good up-and-coming DFLers. I don't know of Alan Page, but I trust your judgment that he's a good guy.

Your criteria question is a good one. I think ultimately it's up to the person's own conscience. (How's that for wussing out? Lol.) But seriously, I wonder if we should really be paying the Senate to do an ethics investigation when there are clearly so many bigger fish for them to fry.

Franken owned up to it, she accepted his apology. As long as no other skeletons come rolling out of his closet, maybe they should all move on. I right away thought he should resign, but if nothing else comes to light, maybe it's okay if he doesn't. He's been doing a lot of good there. His questioning of Jeff Sessions alone I thought was worth my money. (Though Kamala Harris did a pretty awesome job of freaking him out, too.)

 

[scout86]

I've never met Alan Page, just heard him interviewed a few times. But I'd match our retired state supreme court justice against Alabama's any day. (Besides, ours is also in the NFL hall of fame.)

I guess I'm concerned that the governor will just pick what I think of as a "party hack". I'd rather we had an independent thinker with a more curious and creative mind. But then, I'm not now, nor have I ever been, a Democrat.

 

[Deleted member 541]

@TexCat I think that everyone has their level of tolerance when it comes to this sort of thing. I’m not appalled by what Franken has done, dissapointed, Yes, but not disgusted. Moore, on the other hand... My opinion he’s a pig and a child molester.

As far as senior Bush.... I was SHOCKED. I always thought he was to Mr Religious, to Mr Proper to do shit like that. And I always thought that Barbra might smack him right side of his head if he did anything wrong. I always felt like she wore the pants in that family....

 

[hodge]

I think Dayton would make a good pick. I'm a lifelong Dem, though, so we might not totally agree on a good pick :-). I have to say I'm kind of surprised Franken hasn't resigned by now. Maybe it is true that this was somehow kind of blown up. I shouldn't allow my limited experience to cloud my judgment in this atmosphere. A look is just a look. I've probably done it, too.

 

[Neverthesame]

I saw the photo of Franken. It does look like he's trying to be funny, more than copp a feel.

"It's just a joke" isn't a valid excuse I know. Especially these days it seems, and I can understand why the woman was upset.
Maybe if he stood back about 6 inches or so and if the woman was in on it, pretending to be asleep, it might have gone over better.

Though I am somewhat curious, how do you grope someone through a plate of ballistic armour?

ETA: I'm asking because I own a vest like that. There is a big square of steel or ceramic between his hands and her breasts.
I know that still doesn't make it okay. But he couldn't have actually grabbed anything through that. He can really only make it "look like" he's groping her.

Once again, I know that doesn't mean it's okay. Just asking.

 

[hodge]

Very interesting reflections, @Neverthesame. I get what you're saying. It does look like he's trying to be funny. No one would mug for the camera like that if they were really trying to cop a feel. I do think it was really just tasteless. What bothers me more is that she says he was mean and intimidating to her for the rest of the trip. But then I've seen other accounts that say that she is politically motivated. I hope not, because none of us needs that. I guess I'm just waiting to see if any other women come forward with stories about Franken. I think that's how we'll really know.

 

[Friday]

"It's just a joke" isn't a valid excuse I know. Especially these days it seems, and I can understand why the woman was upset.

Maybe less these days. In my days? That would have been an open rape-pass. If someone in authority so disrespected you to f*ck with you while you were asleep, especially in a sexual manner? As long as that story was told, expect to be thrown up against the bulkhead, or down on the deck, while other people f*cked with you a bit more literally. Also expect to be removed from all positions of authority, or that needed respect in order for you to do your job. It would completely destroy your credibility, as a female, for as long as you were at that posting.

If she'd beat the guy down, she'd have been NJP'd and lost rank and pay (you're not responsible for your actions for the first 30 seconds after you wake, but for someone with that much juice there'd still be a token slap on the wrist), but still maintained the respect of those she served with, and not as a liability at best and a cumbucket at worst.

Again, this was my day. I expect things have changed. Although I doubt by how much.