We Aren't Communicating

[Pencil]

So she might ask "You found that event exciting?" and I'd respond "no..oo.. maybe stimulating and interesting, but it lacked the element of joy I'd expect in excitement"

This is a family trait. I once asked my brother if he could give me a really accurate definition of the word pedantic, and he was 30 seconds into thought about it before he got the joke.
Or maybe she wants to make me so fed up that'll just go way and get on with living?

.

Dear Stenni, I'm afraid I find your posts far too enlivening and entertaining for you to consider giving up this therapist. But now we'll both have to go to the thesaurus to figure out whether 'enlivening' and 'entertaining' were good and valid words to use, and we'll have to figure out whether they have the same connotations for both of us. :)

 

[Pencil]

Maybe she's trying to say I have shit-for-brains?

I think she does :roflmao:

 

[Abstract]

Hi Stenni,

I actually feel for you. :( I have had a situation where there was a disconnect with communication with a t and it carried on a long time and was bad for me. I did not have the ability you have to notice it and question how it was affecting me. I think you have done your part by explaining to her why you maybe jump to the worst case understanding of what people say and that you have this family tendency to look at the exact meaning of words.

I think us being defensive (I have a similar history) can spark off others reacting similarly but as a therapist she should be managing this and she isn't. It could also be that she started the whole dynamic off herself. It sounds like her own stuff is getting in the way. She is defensive and it almost seems that she feels stupid with you as she is needing to point out that she isnt. In T talk it sounds like she is experiencing some sort of counter transference or something.

In the long term both the need to have exact meanings for things and the worst case interpretation of what others say are things you need to heal to help your realtime relationships with others in the world but it does not sound like she is helping you in that direction at all.

I know she is an NHS T and you may not be able to change but are there any other T's trained in trauma in the area? If you could get her to help find a solution then that may be best. Maybe you could tell her how you see your dynamic. It may be best to be a little tactful as it may serve you better.

She got very hurt and offended, and still doesn't seem to understand, no matter how I try to phrase it that I'm not bothered whether she cares. I just want her to do her job competently and professionally. I have a husband and children to care about me, and if I get better I'll be able to see my friends who care about me.

I think its normal for someone to be a little offended actually but she should be able to express that in a professional way rather than personalising it. Our relationship with our t is probably what will help our other relationships most of all. I think I understand that maybe you are saying that if you cant have it all you are Ok settling for the essentials in T to help you move forward.

What options are open to you with changing?

 

[The Albatross]

A couple of examples
Talking about how little I do, T said "Maybe that is what you have needed" I replied "So you think it's time I began to push myself into action?"
She seemed shocked, and then when I explained that she had used a past tense, she told me that was irrelevant.
...
But I'm flummoxed - how will I ever know what she means if she won't use words precisely?

Stenni... for myself, in my relational communications mostly, but at times also in therapy... I had a big pattern of a similar type of communication exchange like you used in your example.

In the example above... I would often give less cred to what was actually said and skip by inferrance (spelling?) to a different topic (sometimes defensively, sometimes not... just like a fast foward on an old cassette player).

I was attempting to read into what people were actually saying to me and trying to draw conclusions, where there weren't any. A good bit of the time.

If you reread your first example in the post... the topic was that you feel you do "little". Your T's response was basically innane and supportive or suggestive. The train jumped the track because the reply in the example... is more your own conclusion, your own thoughts and has nothing whatever to do with what was actually said by your T.

She was right to say that tense was irrelevant. Because tense wasn't the issue. The topic changed completely when you reacted to something that was unspoken.

I had to really work on trying not to run ahead in conversations with my husband, family or shrink. The thoughts in my head moved a lot faster than the discussion did. It was basically a self defeating habit. One that was crazy making for people who were tring to talk with me, yeah... but more than that, the habit kept me stuck and frustrated and stressed out whenever I'd try to communicate.

I had to deal with learning how to attend more to the real conversation, than spin ahead in my mind and steer the discussion based on those thoughts. If that makes any sense. It was a wedge between me and any meaningful problem solving and two way communication.

 

[Abstract]

Albatross has explained what I was thinking extremely well. Better than I was able to.

 

[The Albatross]

I expect that "scatological thinking" was a poor choice of words... though I'm not aware of any terms that can accurately convey what I was trying to describe about my habitual thinking style in the above post.

When I read the definition and consider the example... for myself, as if I had the exchange, I see a preoccupation on my part at jumping to conclusions, rather than a preoccupation with "obsene" or shit things. I think I'd be asking her to explain or retract that one.

 

[The Albatross]

I can't always do that in my day to day life, but it a really hard thing to undo thinking and communication styles. At one point I went to an active listening seminar... with a whole bunch of strangers... because I thought I would be best served trying to learn the skill set with people I didn't know and wasn't invested in or in relationship with. When it all came down to it it had a lot to do with my own inner conflicts and thinking style and my sense of self worth was also involved.

I described it to my shrink, that it was a verbal reflexive type of thing. Sort of like what I went through when I was being physically abused. Someone would raise a hand and I would perceive a threat and flinch. I had learn to attend more to the present and quiet my thoughts.

 

[The Albatross]

People can though ... use whatever word choice they like. In any meaningful communication they bear no more responsibility than I do for poor word choices. If I was held accountable on every word choice I made to my husband, mother or therapist... well I'd be in a world of shit. She is a mental health professional, true enough... but not infallable. For myself I found I set unreasonable expectations for others with regard to their communication with me. I had to learn though, that the goal of communication isn't to find fault with what was being said or draw conclusions by inference and read between the ilnes. I had to curb the impulses and fully attend with an open demeanor and ask questions rather than take offense or a defensive position... the goal was an open and honest discussion. I sabotaged myself for many years because my reflexive communication style didn't work for me. I'd miss the ideas that were being conveyed because I'd nit pick the dialogue and vocabulary.

Rambled on probably too damn much. I hope Stenni... there's something useful in any of this. Hugs for you friend.

 

[Pencil]

Stenni

I guess the term here is that you are not on the same wavelength, which is an important component for 'therapeutic alliance', 'best fit', etc. No amount of analysis will change it or make it clearer.

Ask yourself: Do I have a clear picture of a murky situation? or Do I have a murky picture of a clear situation? or Do I have a murky picture of a murky situation? or, Do I have a clear picture of a clear situation?

Substitute 'picture' with 'understanding', and 'situation' with 'communication', or ... whatever.

If your own communication patterns are getting in the way, you would experience this frustration will everybody.

But I think the most important point you are making is that you are not relying or depending on her for support or caring. Many people do.

 

[The Albatross]

Initially she was planning to use a DBT approach, but this seems to have faded away.


I have been challenging her almost every week since the third time I saw her, mainly over the lack of explanation and road mapping of where we are going. She says I'm trying to take control to protect myself, but she also says I'm trying to abdicate control to her whenever I say " I don't know about X, you're the professional so I expect you to lead".



When I pinned her down on this, she said that I jump from A to E without going through the logical steps of B, C and D. But I think it's just that they are obvious and don't need stating. I do agree though that my mind leaps erratically from subject to subject. when I had control of it it was useful for multi-tasking. Now it's just confusing.

Stenni, I can see why DBT may be tabled for a time because of the problematic thinking style. I think that she's actually spot on and has been astute about this.

The core of the flawed thinking process is in your own response here. "I think it's just obvious and don't need stating". That's the crux of the matter. It is an internal process that we think moves the conversation forward in a natural way... but is not vocalized. We expect people to follow along and are mystified when they lose track or do not follow along. But it's because we haven't TOLD them or communicated how we got there.

 

[Pencil]

. I think that she's actually spot on and has been astute about this.

Albatross, and your analysis is equally astute. Ok, I admit, it seems I have scatological thinking :(

 

[The Albatross]

Not convinced that scatological is actually an apt or appropriate term to describe the thinking style... but frankly don't know what else is. I had it too though Pencil... so make a mental note and add it to the list of things to rectify. It was a pretty high priority in my book because it jeopardized nearly every conversation of importance I ever had with... well anybody. :unsure: