I guess I’m not looking for answers, I don’t know if anyone can give me any. I’d just be interested to hear of anyone’s experience of doing something to push a partner away. Something so you can let them go and they can live their life without guilt. What if I don’t want to go on and live my life? I don’t want someone to make a self sacrifice for me. Maybe it’s the tears and emotion right now that is making this garbled but I just cannot believe all these years are potentially over.
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General What are they thinking?
- Post starter Freida
- Start date
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Never_falter2
Diamond Member
May be this is not good advice and most likely you already thought if this @Freida. I am sure there are many lifes you safed and I am sure there are even more lifes you can still safe. I do not say this because I do think that you are bad or need to feel guilty. I think that the opposite is the case...
You probably know that Germany, after WWII, was very poor and you probably heard of the donations that were given to Germans. I am not sure if I am allowed to mention the name of charities here (or if it is against the no advertisement rules). Those private donations kept many people, children, babies, mothers, people with disabilities, alive, who otherwise would have died. Only think of how much this meant to them. No, only take 5 minutes and think about how much it really meant to them, to their parents and loved ones. This is still remembered by many families 70 years later. Who were the donors? According to what I heard many were Vets. Sometimes I thinking about how they might have felt... while I think during WWII we Germans were the side that was in the wrong and you were in the right I think some of your Vets might have felt bad about what happened during WWII... some might have felt suicidal. It happens to Vets today and I am sure it happened during that time. Like nearly all German families my extended family has lost many civilian family members during bombing raids, most of them were children, because people used to have big families during that time and because many people perishing in bombing raids did not die from the bombs but from carbon monoxide poisoning and children are more sensitive to carbon monoxide. So I am thinking of a Vet, 70 years ago and maybe he felt suicidal and then he changed his mind and he donated a few pounds and that few pounds kept a mother alive, or a baby. Best choice ever. Nothing can ever bring back my family members but I think that it is so good that this Vet stayed alive and was able to help German families.
Many years later. A few dollars can still safe a life. Maybe you already safed one today by donating to this boards... you do not know how many people read this boards and how it helps them. Maybe somebody you may never know but he knows you because he reads what you are writing reads something you wrote on here today decides to seek therapy today and it safes his life... or maybe you think of a poorer country you feel a connection with today and decide to give a few dollars.
Do not get me wrong. I do not think you have to because you are supposed to feel guilty but I thought maybe donating might help you feel better and it will help a poor family very much.
You probably know that Germany, after WWII, was very poor and you probably heard of the donations that were given to Germans. I am not sure if I am allowed to mention the name of charities here (or if it is against the no advertisement rules). Those private donations kept many people, children, babies, mothers, people with disabilities, alive, who otherwise would have died. Only think of how much this meant to them. No, only take 5 minutes and think about how much it really meant to them, to their parents and loved ones. This is still remembered by many families 70 years later. Who were the donors? According to what I heard many were Vets. Sometimes I thinking about how they might have felt... while I think during WWII we Germans were the side that was in the wrong and you were in the right I think some of your Vets might have felt bad about what happened during WWII... some might have felt suicidal. It happens to Vets today and I am sure it happened during that time. Like nearly all German families my extended family has lost many civilian family members during bombing raids, most of them were children, because people used to have big families during that time and because many people perishing in bombing raids did not die from the bombs but from carbon monoxide poisoning and children are more sensitive to carbon monoxide. So I am thinking of a Vet, 70 years ago and maybe he felt suicidal and then he changed his mind and he donated a few pounds and that few pounds kept a mother alive, or a baby. Best choice ever. Nothing can ever bring back my family members but I think that it is so good that this Vet stayed alive and was able to help German families.
Many years later. A few dollars can still safe a life. Maybe you already safed one today by donating to this boards... you do not know how many people read this boards and how it helps them. Maybe somebody you may never know but he knows you because he reads what you are writing reads something you wrote on here today decides to seek therapy today and it safes his life... or maybe you think of a poorer country you feel a connection with today and decide to give a few dollars.
Do not get me wrong. I do not think you have to because you are supposed to feel guilty but I thought maybe donating might help you feel better and it will help a poor family very much.
- Post starter
- #759
Freida
VIP Member
@anon1234 Just making sure -- you are asking if I -- as a sufferer-- have done that?
Yep. Back in the day I had no idea I had ptsd and I was kinda a nightmare to date. Once I got panicky I just...left. As in - changed states ...buhbye. I honestly thought I was doing them a favor by not dragging them into my mess.
It's so very hard to explain -- but I just had this conversation with a battle buddy who was reminding me that I had, once again, gone dark and I didn't talk to her for several days. I know I've been in a bad place lately, but the best I could come up with was that I just...forget about people. I forget they are around to support me. And it makes me mental that they have to worry about me. Some of it is that I can't handle their reactions to my reactions - if that makes sense? I can barely stand my own emotions -- I have nothing left to help them. In my brain if I upset them I'm supposed to do something to fix it right? But I can't. And all I can see when I'm in that place is how much I am holding them back, how much easier their lives would be without dealing with my crap, how much stress I bring to them. It makes so much more sense to just kick them loose.
You have to understand it's not rational thinking. It's more instinctish. My brain has me convinced that I have to minimize the collateral damage I bring to my relationships. When I'm in trauma brain I truly believe they would be happier without me. It was astonishingly humbling to be educated on this forum by the supporters and to realize that I was making decisions for them -- not allowing them to make decisions for themselves. If I hadn't have been here I probably would have never learned that - because I wouldn't believe my supporters if they told me they wanted to help. I would have seen them as sacrificing their futures for me -- and that's adding more guilt to what I already carry
I"m so sorry you are in this place -- I wish I could tell you something that could help but....
sigh. Its life with ptsd.
:hug:
Yep. Back in the day I had no idea I had ptsd and I was kinda a nightmare to date. Once I got panicky I just...left. As in - changed states ...buhbye. I honestly thought I was doing them a favor by not dragging them into my mess.
It's so very hard to explain -- but I just had this conversation with a battle buddy who was reminding me that I had, once again, gone dark and I didn't talk to her for several days. I know I've been in a bad place lately, but the best I could come up with was that I just...forget about people. I forget they are around to support me. And it makes me mental that they have to worry about me. Some of it is that I can't handle their reactions to my reactions - if that makes sense? I can barely stand my own emotions -- I have nothing left to help them. In my brain if I upset them I'm supposed to do something to fix it right? But I can't. And all I can see when I'm in that place is how much I am holding them back, how much easier their lives would be without dealing with my crap, how much stress I bring to them. It makes so much more sense to just kick them loose.
You have to understand it's not rational thinking. It's more instinctish. My brain has me convinced that I have to minimize the collateral damage I bring to my relationships. When I'm in trauma brain I truly believe they would be happier without me. It was astonishingly humbling to be educated on this forum by the supporters and to realize that I was making decisions for them -- not allowing them to make decisions for themselves. If I hadn't have been here I probably would have never learned that - because I wouldn't believe my supporters if they told me they wanted to help. I would have seen them as sacrificing their futures for me -- and that's adding more guilt to what I already carry
I"m so sorry you are in this place -- I wish I could tell you something that could help but....
sigh. Its life with ptsd.
:hug:
- Post starter
- #760
Freida
VIP Member
That's a really good idea!
Thank you so much for your response Freida. You always are so helpful and insightful. I guess by getting an insider perspective from someone so elquoent helps me figure what happened. Or at least makes me try to understand it really isn’t about me. Well it is because I’m the partner, but you know what I mean. I got pushed into a situation where I had to enforce boundaries and therefore perpetuated some negative thinking. I’ve never seen the side that is behind the isolation before.
I guess I’m just reeling, and yes. I think not being able to make the decision for myself has been challenging...as has the resulting isolation.
This helps. What gets me is how he wanted to be punished. He wanted me to tell him he was a bad person. I didn’t, so it seems he went to extremes.
Thank you again for your honesty and disclosing your deeply personal information. It helps me realize there is someone out there who understand. It has actually calmed me enough so I can sleep tonight. I know there’s nothing anyone can do, but at least gaining some perspective on top of what I’ve tried to learn about PTSD can help me get through some of this. Many years in and I feel like a newbie.
My situation down to the T. It may not have been the words that have come from my ex-boyfriend's mouth, but this is mainly what he was telling me when he said he doesn't want me around for when he's getting help. He says I'll be "okay" and I'll find "better." It pains me to know that he's going to have to go through this alone, except for a few battle buddies.
Since the beginning of our relationship and even from before we got together, he never thought he was worthy enough for me. It baffled me! He was such a good guy and he didn't think he deserved happiness, love, and me??? I hope he realizes that he wasn't holding me back. I won't be happier without him. That he showed me that there are really good guys out there and here's to hoping that one day, he comes back.
Thanks @Freida for once again, putting things into perspective! You are absolutely amazing.
I've read in this thread about how supporters can cease to exist when a sufferer is really symptomatic - is it possible that other parts of your lives can sort of disappear too? I had a confusing conversation with a friend and I was hoping to get some insight from the folks here. I'm really not sure what to make of it.
My friend (combat vet) mentioned that he was trying to be more emotionally open over the past 6 months or so, asked if I'd noticed. What a wonderful goal! But...no. I hadn't noticed, because for about 4 of the previous 6 months he'd completely shut me out. It seemed like he'd...forgotten about that, I guess? At the start of the shutout I'd flown to a city about half an hour from his, he said he had a lot of work to do but wanted to meet up briefly and suggested a dinner spot... and then ghosted. Didn't hear from him again for months. I wasn't totally expecting him to be able to meet since it seemed like a hard time of year for him before, but the ghosting was new. I was convinced he was gone for good after all that time, so I grieved the loss and was moving on when he popped back up out of the blue recently.
So we talk a little more it turns out he wasn't actually aware he'd ghosted me. Dude clearly felt terrible. Man, what a mindf*ck. I have no problem with the isolating, I don't take it personally, but the ghosting *sucked* and it really can't be part of the pattern if this friendship is going to continue. But what to do if a low tide hits and all of those pesky details like "Sorry Itsatay, I can't make it tonight" get pushed out the door? It almost seems like the he just lost parts of his awareness after that tipping point where he had to switch off. He clearly knows about events that happened during that time but only seems halfway aware that he shut down for so long. No, that's not even true - he apologized for being switched off for so long when he first came back. It's more like everything is distorted or something, I don't know. Is this....typical?
My friend (combat vet) mentioned that he was trying to be more emotionally open over the past 6 months or so, asked if I'd noticed. What a wonderful goal! But...no. I hadn't noticed, because for about 4 of the previous 6 months he'd completely shut me out. It seemed like he'd...forgotten about that, I guess? At the start of the shutout I'd flown to a city about half an hour from his, he said he had a lot of work to do but wanted to meet up briefly and suggested a dinner spot... and then ghosted. Didn't hear from him again for months. I wasn't totally expecting him to be able to meet since it seemed like a hard time of year for him before, but the ghosting was new. I was convinced he was gone for good after all that time, so I grieved the loss and was moving on when he popped back up out of the blue recently.
So we talk a little more it turns out he wasn't actually aware he'd ghosted me. Dude clearly felt terrible. Man, what a mindf*ck. I have no problem with the isolating, I don't take it personally, but the ghosting *sucked* and it really can't be part of the pattern if this friendship is going to continue. But what to do if a low tide hits and all of those pesky details like "Sorry Itsatay, I can't make it tonight" get pushed out the door? It almost seems like the he just lost parts of his awareness after that tipping point where he had to switch off. He clearly knows about events that happened during that time but only seems halfway aware that he shut down for so long. No, that's not even true - he apologized for being switched off for so long when he first came back. It's more like everything is distorted or something, I don't know. Is this....typical?
- Moderator
- #765
Sweetpea76
VIP Member
Very typical... seems flakey as hell, right? It’s really not. It’s something you get used to when your loved one is symptomatic.
Sometimes they just literally cannot make themselves go. It’s not that they don’t want to... they may have really wanted to go and/or see you. It’s that they CANNOT make themselves go. The stress cup overflowed, or they panicked. Then they stress that they’re disappointing people. Then they stress that the person they were supposed to go out with is upset with them. Then they spiral down into thinking they’re worthless... it happens.
Is it right to stand people up? No. Is PTSD an excuse to treat people like this? No again. It’s happens though, and it’s something a lot of sufferers have to really work on.
I learned to let it go early on in my relationship. We have to be very flexible with plans. He has gotten a lot better over time, but if he isn’t doing well it can all go out the window.
Also beware of the “I’m doing so good” pep talk. Sometimes it means the opposite.
Sometimes they just literally cannot make themselves go. It’s not that they don’t want to... they may have really wanted to go and/or see you. It’s that they CANNOT make themselves go. The stress cup overflowed, or they panicked. Then they stress that they’re disappointing people. Then they stress that the person they were supposed to go out with is upset with them. Then they spiral down into thinking they’re worthless... it happens.
Is it right to stand people up? No. Is PTSD an excuse to treat people like this? No again. It’s happens though, and it’s something a lot of sufferers have to really work on.
I learned to let it go early on in my relationship. We have to be very flexible with plans. He has gotten a lot better over time, but if he isn’t doing well it can all go out the window.
Also beware of the “I’m doing so good” pep talk. Sometimes it means the opposite.
Oh for sure - I've been used to his isolating for years, it is what it is and doesn't particularly concern me any more. I know I'll always need backup plans if we're meeting up in case he can't make it. It's not the isolating itself that's got me confused, it's that he doesn't seem to have total awareness of the 4 months he was gone this time around. It's like he was on autopilot, and he doesn't seem to consider those 4 months part of his history when he asks if I've noticed his attempts to be more emotionally open over the past 6.
- Post starter
- #767
Freida
VIP Member
Been there. I didn't even know what ghosting was until came here and people pointed it out.
I love the word distorted -- that really fits. Yep --- I'm doing that right now. My stress cup is completely and utterly full, so I just kind of.... shut down. What sucks is that I KNOW I'm doing it (all hail years of therapy and this site) but I can't seem to change it. I'm pretty sure I stood someone up last week, I'm almost positive I missed a birthday, I know I screwed up a business thing really badly and I get there is a whole bunch of crap about trump and his peeps going on but..meh. I've lost track of which day it is and if it wasn't for my to-do list I wouldn't be getting anything accomplished and its really hard to even do that....
I really, REALLY have to work self-awareness to even get this much in my brain and honestly, it's better to just let it all pass me by right now. I'll catch up later I guess...
which all leads to this......
yep. :(
Aww. I hate that you've got so much on your plate, Frieda. You've been a major help by putting your thoughts here on these forums. Sending you good vibes, for what it's worth.
It's definitely less personal then to know that this isn't totally out of the ordinary, but man. Ghosting is really problematic but if I know it wasn't an intentional sort of thing, maybe I can adjust my backup plans for that as well. I don't realistically know how much of that my heart can take, but as long as he's trying, I can too. And I do know he's putting a lot of effort into himself, so there's that.
It's definitely less personal then to know that this isn't totally out of the ordinary, but man. Ghosting is really problematic but if I know it wasn't an intentional sort of thing, maybe I can adjust my backup plans for that as well. I don't realistically know how much of that my heart can take, but as long as he's trying, I can too. And I do know he's putting a lot of effort into himself, so there's that.
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