What Do You Do When Your Therapist Can't Understand Your Trauma?

[joeylittle]

@ghotiff , thanks for the encouragement. I get this strange thing about thinking it's not valid if I tell him what to say. But if you've seen Marsha Linnehan's DBT DVDs, it's like the birthday analogy - what's the easiest way to avoid being upset because people don't remember your birthday? Tell them it's your birthday.

What do I want to hear? I think I want to hear that he's sad, or angry, or affected in any way. Why does that seem like asking for something too personal?

@Mystery , it's interesting you bring up disclosure. He does a fair amount of self-disclosure, and most of the time it is very useful. I had to tell him early on that the stuff he discloses about his husband or father issues is not as useful to me; I don't have kids, I'm not married. But connections he can draw between his experience and mine do help.

He's told me before that the only issue he's worked with that he couldn't handle was working with perpetrators; that his transference was too great and he couldn't separate emotionally. He's got very good boundaries, and I do trust he can take care of himself. He's also current with his own therapy.

I've never seen him bat an eye at anything I tell him. Up til now I've appreciated that.

@scout86 , my therapist is definitely the opposite of yours, emotion-wise. And honestly, most of the time it's been exactly what I needed. I definitely think you should feel empowered to tell your T that it is upsetting to you when he gets upset.

Now, why do I think that's a fine thing to say but asking my therapist to just show me his honest reaction is gross, somehow? I know it feels like attention-seeking. I just don't want to be inappropriate. I know friends are for comfort, not my doctors. But I don't have friends, and perhaps I'm looking for him to fill a role I don't have in my life.

And I appreciate your words of encouragement, all of you. I don't think I'm that awesome, but I'm honored to be in awesome company!

 

[Mystery]

Joeylittle, I've been having a longer think about your thoughts around the issue of being complicit and the concept of being a child. These are my thoughts. I'm going to try my best not to use triggering words, please tell me if you need me to lower the tone of what I write.

There is our actual age and our developmental age. People who are independent too young are not the same type of children as children who grow up slowly and securely. There are aspects of their development that get entirely missed and aspects that get accelerated. It's the accelerated part that develops more adult qualities to survive the environment they find themselves in. I grew up like that too. I think the insight you have into that is more than just dysfunctional thinking and blaming yourself, it's actually quite realistic to some degree. Was our sense of being okay out there in the adult world, without adult guidance a false sense of security though? Viewed through the lens of inexperience.? Most likely.

On being complicit, I think that evolution programmed us to be complicit. In a situation such as yours there are so many levels of it to consider. There's it being in our genes, were female social beings programmed to submit. There's it being in our best interests when in a powerless, situation. There's lots of evidence to support the Stockholm Syndrome theory that our brains for some reason can bound to our captors even in a short period of time. It's a strange thing but it's really real for some. It has to be another part of the in the moment survival mechanism I believe.

There is a point of realization in a captive situation, where reality sets in. You weren't complicit before that point. Then you made every right decision at every turn, dealing with the unpredictability and responding to it as it happens. Something or many things you did made it possible for you to live. Even if that was just thinking sometimes. Then there is the fact that we know instinctively in a situation where we face a sadist, that our apparent, 'complicitness' is part of the list of necessary attributes of an ideal object for their needs. They gain satisfaction from watching us appear to hurt ourselves, it's part of their needs.

It's a flight response which looks like a freeze response, which is an offensive tactic to survive the events and not just necessarily a defensive one. You are actually doing something constructive while you are being complicit. It could even have been the thing that allowed you to survive it. That moment of making the 'wrong' decision that led us to make that 'mistake' was the last wrong thing we did, the rest of it was just pure intelligence and successful strategy.

 

[ghotiff]

What do I want to hear? I think I want to hear that he's sad, or angry, or affected in any way. Why does that seem like asking for something too personal?

Because it is personal, and that is what you need right now. I don't see anything wrong in asking for this. It's possible that you T might say they can't because of boundaries (I don't know), but you can certainly ask. I actually think it would be very healthy for you to acknowledge you needs and actively seek ways for them to be met.

 

[Tinyflame]

I'm not sure, I go by what I see or hear. I guess if there's a reaction I feel somewhat justified in feeling those things myself. Or I feel shocked as to 'why'. I've minimized how I've felt so long I'm not sure what is appropriate to feel about 'stuff' or situations. :(

 

[Tinyflame]

@joeylittle , going back a bit, there is a really good part on 'apportioning blame (& responsibility)' per event in the current handbook for Military Chaplains on "Best Practices for the Provision of Spiritual Care to Persons with Post Traumatic Stress Disorder and Traumatic Brain Injury" on this forum posted by @Chondra.

If you have no beliefs I hope you will not be put off because it's not like that. If anything, being "we're" (definitely "I'm" ) prone to black-or-white thinking (all to blame or not to blame, usually defaulting to I am 'all'), this has an exercise to apportion realistically blame. For example, 20% to Commanding Officer (who was doing their job), 5% to institution, etc. One does not have to be in the Military, btw, or spiritual necessarily for that matter. They are good, logical hard facts, from people who 'get it'. In fact, I must go back to it! (For example- unrelated- that "neither radical revenge nor radical forgiveness will 'cure'/ solve ptsd").

I hope it's ok to paraphrase, as Chondra said If you only look at one link this is the best one.

:hug:

 

[joeylittle]

Thank you, everybody. I'm doing a great deal of processing and want to come back to some specific stuff later.

My biggest fear, if I'm as blunt as asking him to allow me to see his emotion, is that he will say no. Such a silly thing to be afraid of - and all by itself worth some talking about in-session; but I am just not up to being that totally self-aware right now. I just want him to agree. And I can't tell if my fear of being turned down is just one of those "it always seems like it will be worse than it is" fears, or if it's actually a real thing to be afraid of. I'm on the edge of "together" these days and am not sure what's wrong, just that this issue still looms large.

 

[scout86]

So, what happens if he says "no"?

It seems like the 2 most likely reasons for a "no" would be that HE can't handle showing his emotions (which is possible, but about him, not you) or that he's concerned about whether or not it will adversely effect you. (Very likely there are other reasons I'm not thinking of.)

I don't think it's a silly thing to be afraid of at all. I think it's right in the same category as "no one will believe me" and "he's going to give up on me too." and a whole bunch of other, similar fears. You're right, it's a worth while topic all by itself. I hate that "on the edge of 'together'" feeling! The only good thing about it is that it's often followed by "Oh! THAT'S what that was about!" Hang in there!

 

[GWhizz]

I hope you can ask him for what you need. Whether or not he can agree to it, it is imperative that he knows and acknowledges what you really want and need from therapy. He has to work through this with you, and why it's important to you. It's not just you being needy or dependent, it's much deeper than than I would think. And he should be able to see this.

Of course I don't know your T in person, but even if he's not the type of individual who easily shows emotion, he should be at least willing to tell you what it is that he thinks/feels in response to you.

Thinking of you

 

[joeylittle]

Ugh. Well, now I think I'm just screwed. Black and white thinking, I know, but hard to combat right now.

We just had a bad session. I couldn't tell him how I feel. We were talking about depression and mindfulness, and I was feeling very guarded and worked at it but could barely get my self-protective mechanisms to stop.

He fell into an easy trap for him (he's commented on it before); he was in "solve it" mode, and I needed to be in "hear and validate" mode.

I firmly believe that the longer an interpersonal problem is allowed to continue, the thornier it gets - that's the way it is for me, at least. And I'm withdrawing very very quickly from this therapist who has been overall incredibly helpful to me. I hate to be so ridiculously needy - cannot stand the feeling of it - but it's where I'm at. I could use some encouragement from him, now, in addition to the expressed empathy.

The pile-up of that makes the situation so awkward for me that I want to quit or disappear. But I'm well aware that the only purpose in that would be to draw his attention to the fact that there's a problem.

I doubt he would allow me to terminate therapy without making some very strong (and effective) arguments for why I should keep going. And I can't just not show up, that would signify that something was dangerously wrong with me, because I'm not the sort to just not show up.

So trying to leave is just attention-seeking.

But bringing all this up is attention seeking. I keep re-reading this thread and all the smart things people have said - and it's still not sinking in. I do not believe I am deserving of expressed emotion. If it were to happen organically I'd be relieved; but to ask for it strikes me as the worst kind of behavior.

Oh god, did I just write one of those posts where the answer is, "show him this post"?

(I cannot fathom doing that)

 

[Mystery]

Hi Joeylittle, you are so full of insight. Even before I read your last two sentences, I was thinking the same thing, that perhaps expressing this verbally, to his face is too difficult for you right now. It may be the best thing to do, asking him to read it. Asking for it, is not the worst kind of behaviour and being needy with a therapist should never be labelled as needy. It's got to be his stuff, it just has to be. It's his style I think. I could be wrong but I'm almost sure I'm not. If he had been expressing some greater level of empathy, would you still be feeling you are not deserving of people expressing emotion?

Of course, no one wants to demand a connection with another human being, it just makes it two dimensional from that point onwards. Do you really have to discuss terminating therapy to get an indication of his comittment to you? That's a last resort and I wonder what his level of emotional involvement would be in that situation. That's the kind of thing we do when we have had enough of a relationship and our partner hasn't been listening to us. We say I'm not happy, I've been thinking about separating. Sometimes that's the catalyst for repair, sometimes it's the thing that is the beginning of moving on to a new life.

From what I'm reading of your experiences so far, intellectualizing has been a good thing for you. It has allowed you to process a lot of stuff in a safe environment and build a rapport with the person who is there to hold your hand as you go into the deep stuff. You seem to have taken a step closer to some of the deeper issues surrounding what happened and what's left behind, within you. That's more personal than the stuff which is obvious. Yeah it was all bad, was all done to you, not your fault, you were a child. For me that's therapy 101.

Joeylittle, if you do need a different therapist after this, it is okay you know. I know how easy that is for me to say and how not easy it is for you to do. The problem is not with your approach, nor is it because what happened to you is too damaging for other people. If you were here in front of me right now, I would be taking a way different approach. I'd be listening intently with tears rolling down my eyes and deep breathing all the same. Would you ask a friend to show some emotion about your story? I wouldn't. I'd be thinking 'she can't handle this stuff, I'm going to save that for my therapist'. Keep being strong, rational, black and white if that's what you have to do. Remember to thank yourself for knowing what you need and having the self worth to keep questioning and believing that you know because...you do. Trust that beautiful woman you are, who knows.

 

[ghotiff]

I like your post @Mystery but I disagree with one point in the above.

Of course, no one wants to demand a connection with another human being, it just makes it two dimensional from that point onwards

My child asks for hugs when upset. His ability to acknowledge hi needs and be able to express them does not make our hugs two dimensional at all. I am very proud if this skill of his. @joeylittle I think you are in the process of learning and developing this important skill.

When your background is one of "ask and you will be rejected" or "ask and I will use it against you" it's very scary and hard to ask for something. But, I believe it to be an important and valuable skill.

Maybe you could practice with something smaller and less important to you?

 

[scout86]

I think @ghotiff is on to something.

I know I have the same problem and I've been wondering how long I can meander through therapy without it cropping up as an actual "problem". I'm guessing that I'll find out one of these days.

@joeylittle I think you're on to something too. You did, indeed, just write one of those posts where a good answer is "show him the post". What have you got to lose? Even if he's horrified and throws you out of his office, you still have us, we'll back you up. (Not much of a trade, huh?) Seriously, maybe look at it as an interesting experiment to see what happens this time?

The thing is, you DO need attention. That's the point of therapy. You also deserve it, even if you don't believe it yet. (My T would insist on the "yet". LOL) If you had a broken leg, you'd need attention too. It's the same thing and it's ok. (But, of course, none of that applies to ME. :))