What is complex trauma?

[rainy_daze]

:D. Two contradictory things at once. Not always feelings, thoughts too. I can be very back and forth about what to do sometimes; my partner will ask what I'm doing, and I have to explain, I can't decide which order to do things in. :O_o:. It can result in me moving in a funny way.

I also had no clue I was dissociating. Genuinely. It was weird explaining it to my partner, and him saying that I do it a lot. Why didn't you tell me, silly man :laugh::banghead:. Now I'm aware of it, ugh is all I can say.

I think one of the hardest things for me about complex trauma is being so used to pretending I'm fine. When things started to go badly, I lost this art. Maybe because I started talking about trauma and acknowledging I desperately needed help. Before I guess it was a way to protect myself, to get people to like me so I had friends (I was bullied a lot) and possibly how a child copes when they're being abused.

I also have world views that contradict each other. I grew up in two households. I blame that. My friend's murder too, because although I wasn't completely happy before it happened and was on the path to self-destruction and suicidal urges, I could be very idealistic and hopeful at times.

A lot of it is death related for me too. For example there was an ambulance passing, and I said to my partner in the car "I hope that my mum is okay". This thought process and conversation continued for a while, until the ambulance was going in the wrong direction from where she lives. I felt such relief. It's terrible. I feared so much she would die as a child, and as an adult, when I'm really struggling with everything, that fear is still there. It's a feeling in my chest. Panic? A sense of emergency? Complete irrationality?

I think my numerical/mathematical skills are dreadful. I think when I talk I say the wrong words a lot. People who know me understand what I'm trying to say, but conversations are difficult with strangers. I also find it hard to understand what people mean sometimes. Makes me feel stupid, when in reality, I'm not a genius, but I'm not stupid.

^ and these are all complex trauma things to me because they have made therapy difficult. Especially not having a clue what the psychologist is saying to me. She mentioned executive functions to me, which she had explained before, and I drew a complete blank. I pretended I knew what she was saying, but I didn't have a clue :hilarious:. I also have a great ability to make it look like I'm listening, but I'm busy in my head. Listening to music or daydreaming, which isn't pleasant.

A good example of my confusion is the simple difference between a stressor and a trigger. It's embarrassing if I go back and read the thread about that. It's like unconsciously I block out learning stuff that would help me. Learning very simple concepts shouldn't be difficult for an adult.

I also have a problem with writing short posts sometimes :rolleyes: and jumping from subject to subject in an illogical way. Self criticism too. Self-doubt too. I will hit post before I can change my mind.

You know what... This stuff is really complex :roflmao::confused:. [Short bullet points idea clearly abandoned]

 

[Queen Boudica]

but it is the combination of issues that makes the domestic abuse situation almost impossible to ever convey, or even understand.

So true. When you are out of it, you can't even comprehend how you got there and stayed there. Anyway off topic but it is something I have been struggling with and you have put it so well into words @Meadowsweet

And yes I read what @shell wrote, exactly how I am.

And yes, multiple thoughts and feelings at the same time. I do and I don't simultaneously. I can believe myself and not believe myself at the same time. Normally the hating and not believing myself take over eventually.

 

[Recovery4Me]

The change of core subcategory within the complex-trauma setting became difficult for me to understand. I was not diagnosed with DID (no offense to anyone please that has been) but held diagnosis for PTSD and complex trauma or as it was coined by the therapist with the C infront for the childhood as well as a separate area. I am not excited to have heard all those:cautious:...but hey. It is what it is.

However, I had been under hypnotic inhibitor to suppress those incidents by my abuser. Thereby, I did not have full memory of it until EDMR and sequential therapeutic hypnotism. So supposedly working around those areas of enforced amnesia caused conflict between the part of me that held the body memories and the part of me that did not integrate the compartmentalized trauma. So in one manner I became ill equipped to handle social cuing and developed some "warpy thinking" as defined by CBT. I have relearned some social face-to-face cuing, integrated some of the trauma and have for the most part accepted flashbacks as opportunities to heal that part I have not fully accessed.:bag:

And yet in reference to having multiple thoughts and feelings at the same time-
vacillating thoughts between polarities of negative and positive occur from what I understand for everyone.

For me- it was which area do I hang in (among those thoughts) for grounding, is my inner critic taking over, am I becoming hypervigilant, am I racing in my thoughts to avoid some fear or what is my real objective? At times, if I am overwhelmed..I take a me break and try to relax some of my muscles that became tense in readiness due to the flood.

 

[rainy_daze]

vacillating thoughts between polarities of negative and positive occur from what I understand for everyone

Do you mean for everyone with PTSD, for everyone who is dealing with complex trauma, everyone in the world, or something else? [I think you may have said you're new to the forum, so welcome Recovery4Me, I hope you find it helpful here. I know I do.]

I think I was explaining that I had two parents who contradicted each other in how they treated me. A mother who cared for and loved me, who created an environment in which I was loved and encouraged. A father who told me who I had to be. This is where I think that stems from, for me personally.

I know that my own trauma being complex effected the therapeutic approach needed to heal. But somehow, all the discussion about cptsd has confused the matter by focussing the word complex onto a set of symptoms, rather than on the trauma itself.

I know what you mean. I think it is helpful that I understand the impact of what the first couple of decades of my life had on me, so I can try to change the damage. It isn't easy. I don't see my PTSD as more complicated than anyone else's. I just see that there's lots of areas in my life I want/need to work hard at. I find debating whether there should be a C in front of the disorder a waste of my energy, as I end up getting confused. So, I hear you Meadosweet.

I didn't feel like I had escaped my father until I cut him out completely. In honesty, there are still times where I fear him. Is this part of complex trauma? I also have a lot of fear about my friend's death, and sometimes the two traumas can blur into one. In therapy I can jump from talking about one thing to the other, because for me, they are both part of my story. I had to endure both.

I wish I hadn't tuned out in therapy when complex trauma was being explained to me. Rationally, as long as I know what I'm working on at the moment, and do my best to keep going, I believe I can manage life. Some days are better than others.

 

[Meadowsweet]

It isn't easy. I don't see my PTSD as more complicated than anyone else's. I just see that there's lots of areas in my life I want/need to work hard at.

That sounds like a good attitude to have. I don't know if this will put anything in perspective for you (feel free to ignore if it just seems more confusing), but the complex issues I have, I've always had. But I didn't develop PTSD until my mid thirties, after an attack.

 

[KwanYingirl]

Being told my PTSD is complex has helped me understand my dissociative events and I am beginning to be able to stay in the here and now when triggered. Even years of counseling never connected with me. Everyone's responses to this question helps me have hope.

 

[Recovery4Me]

Rainy Daze- ;) Hey thanks for the welcome!
In answer to your question:
"...what I understand for everyone" (notice the precursor...as it was from a text concerning therapy and there are exceptions as well as different perspectives by qualified therapist/professionals ) ..everyone for this therapist ='normies too'.:giggle:

However the message to me was, it is ok to have fleeting diverse thoughts of different polarities concurrently. This message eliminates for me the fear of 'my inner' or 'outer critic' nudging me into a self defeating attitude. If I am to locate my triggers correctly, it is important to know (for me) that I am not addicted to my own adrenaline and thus spiraling catastrophic outcomes for what is (or maybe) considered functioning normal.

Since, I didn't come with a manual...I try to work at figuring out normal or base line or read on it. :playful: Sometimes, I even see it.lol

 

[RussH]

Complex trauma, I think, is something that the experts are just now really beginning to understand. it absolutely (CPTSD) is evident in the men, and women, imprisoned by the enemy forces during ww2. As well as vietnam pows etc.

I also think of my situation. I was not physically abused. I was subjected to significant bullying over a long period of time. There are many that would argue that bullying would not cause a person to have CPTSD, but when I read the signs and symptoms of CPTSD, I have most of them to one degree or another.

 

[rainy_daze]

[DLMURL]http://www.psychologytoday.com/blog/compassion-matters/201207/recognizing-complex-trauma[/DLMURL]

I read that blog entry the other day. It's a couple of years old, but it made sense to me.

I would say from age zero to twenty, I was living "in" trauma. It wasn't until I cut my father out of my life that I began healing. I'm still trying to get there.

There are only a few memories I have that are not through my own eyes. One when I'm watching from near the ceiling, one where I'm close to myself and watching and one where I'm watching from very far away. These are often the memories from trauma that I doubt as being real.

The other memories are through my eyes, and I don't doubt their authenticity. I know memories are not completely reliable, but I know the main parts of them happened. Despite abusive caregiver telling me I must have had a bad dream, or I was asleep all afternoon. [Or that I was crazy, like my mother :mad:]

So complex trauma is about something happening long term. Also being told who to be, what to do, in what ways it is acceptable to exist. It's about being controlled. Having little or no choice. For me, it's also about the inability to escape, being trapped and praying for rescue. It's also about spending a great deal of childhood trying to drown myself in the bath, crying myself to sleep at night or not sleeping at all. So complex trauma can be multiple traumas, or one prolonged trauma, with varying effects in terms of what age it begins at.

The impact it has on my life now is quite obvious to me, but I think several years ago I attributed everything to the murder of my friend. I was in denial about just how much childhood had affected me.

I find it difficult to know if I had PTSD before my friend's death or not. I wasn't diagnosed until after that. I look back at my childhood, and sometimes wonder why none of the good adults in my life weren't seeing how different I was from other kids. There were so many clues as to what was happening with me. Maybe I hid it all too well. I spend too much time thinking about it, rather than being more proactive about how to make my life better now.

@Meadowsweet, I do know what you're saying, that the issues you've had you have always had. Do you think you didn't have PTSD until after the attack, but before that you were suffering the impact of complex trauma? I want to make sure I'm understanding. I think I had PTSD very early on from neglect, witnessing domestic violence and then being abused when my parents divorced. I think the loss of my friend just sent my symptoms into over-drive, and I stopped being able to hide how miserable I was.

I think understanding this complex trauma idea makes me feel better about how badly I miss therapy. I still have a lot of my own healing work to do, and I can see now why therapy ending impacts so much on my mood. I could go on but the post is so long :rolleyes::speechless:.

 

[Meadowsweet]

Do you think you didn't have PTSD until after the attack, but before that you were suffering the impact of complex trauma?

Yes, in a word.

PTSD is quite a specific combination of symptoms. I'm quite technical like that, and I'm able to distinguish between symptoms that are specifically PTSD symptoms, and the warped ways that I have seen the world and myself, etc.

 

[rainy_daze]

I think right now I can't really compare my PTSD as being different from the results/impact of complex trauma, unless there's a chart that highlights the differences. It all just feels like one big illness to me. Dissociation included. I'm struggling with how to express that, but there it is.

Thanks for the answer @Meadowsweet. I thought most people with PTSD would have had a damaged world view, IMHO. I do remember a time when my world view was so idealistic and positive. I thought I would grow up and have a brilliant life. I know that changed along the way. I've always really liked or really hated myself. I don't remember thinking anything different about myself.

When I look at the symptoms of PTSD in children, those are what I can see some of during my childhood. Especially nightmares. It is about the here and now though, regardless of what label you could have put on me before the catalyst for the original PTSD diagnosis.

The blog article was good talking about the need for therapies to target what comes up when healing complex trauma. I understand that now. I assume this is why my therapist is getting me a kind of group therapy next year. Since therapy finished I've had more flooding of memories. Part of the type of therapy maybe? Or being in a place where my brain wants me to think about them.

I have PTSD because I have experienced complex trauma. But to deal with the issues I have, it is the trauma that is really relevant.

in the end, it is your mind and it's your own understanding that will go towards healing and acceptance of yourself.

I needed to remind myself you had said these earlier Meadowsweet ^. It's a good point about understanding leading to acceptance. The next step: recovering from complex trauma to live an okay life. I'd like that :).

 

[Meadowsweet]

I think right now I can't really compare my PTSD as being different from the results/impact of complex trauma, unless there's a chart that highlights the differences. It all just feels like one big illness to me. Dissociation included. I'm struggling with how to express that, but there it is.

Like the quotes you put up, what matters is working at dealing with the trauma.

I think the reason that i separate PTSd from the effects of complex trauma, is because I feel like I can learn to manage PTSD symptoms as a specific illness, but the ways I respond to life have been there as long as I remember and I can't relate to them as an illness.

I was always very easily led, secretive and 'in my own little world'. it's what we would now call dissociated, but when I was young, it was just part of who I was told I was. I became depressed after moving house age 13, but at that age, it was just put down to being a teenager. No one noticed or took me to a therapist, so it was just 'me'. Then i got into drugs age 15, and stayed on drugs until I was 23. I did have nightmares of childhood abuse and would do strange things like sit in the wardrobe for hours, and would have regular panic attacks. But I was in an abusive relationship and on drugs, and my mind was really screwed up by all that. So that's a period of my life where it is unclear what was symptoms of a mental illness and what was the effects of lifestyle.

Then I gave up drugs, but drank a lot and was completely numb to emotions after that, until I had a child. Then I struggled with my emotions, but I pulled it together and sort of gave myself to my children, and started getting back into my spiritual interests. So I was sober and feeling quite together, but very childish and over trusting and completely blind to 'normal' social interactions, and I ended up being attacked, and then doing as i was told and not telling the police or anyone, and just the way i respond to being abused isn't normal. It was a while after that, that I started experiencing intrusive memories, flashbacks and constant rumination about the attacker and those who saw it - but also previous abuse. My mind was very clearly and directly re-living abuse, whereas before that, my mind was messed up in many ways, but I didn't re-live the abuse.

That re-living, is the main distinction for me, between my mind being damaged by complex trauma, and the symptoms of PTSD.