I have posted this question once before, several months ago, and I apologize in advance for posting it yet again, but I am asking again because my motivations have changed. Months ago, I asked whether or not I should inform the grandmother of my baby (the mother of the baby's father) that she has a grandson, as the father is keeping it secret and refuses to help in any way (and he's an emotionally abusive prick). I realized later that at that time, I was considering doing this more out of anger than anything else; part of my motivation was that I didn't want him to get away with just abandoning his kid and not having anybody know about it. But now I want to ask the same question again, though by now, I feel very differently about the whole thing. I spent the last few months turning the idea over in my mind, trying to figure out what the right thing to do is. I find that I still have an urge to inform the grandmother, though at this point it's no longer out of anger but because, well, it just seems wrong for her to not know. And I want there to be more people in the baby's life who will love him. ultimately, I feel like it's something that will just make me feel shitty for years if I don't do something about it. Objectively speaking, without considering the specifics of my situation, do you guys think it is unethical for a pregnant woman to inform the baby's grandmother about the baby (if the father took off)? Is it crossing some sort of red line? (I spoke to a few male friends and they all thought it was just downright unethical). Also, whereas I was scared before that informing the grandmother might prompt the father to try to get custody, I really really doubt there is any chance of that happening. I think it is more likely that he would stay out of the picture and I would deal directly with her. So I guess my hesitation now stems from uncertainty as to whether informing her is just ethically wrong in some way .... I honestly have no idea. To me, it seems like the right thing to do to inform her, but I'm curious as to other people's thoughts on this. If it is ethically wrong, why?
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What Is The Right Thing To Do
- Post starter Casey_03
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His family has money, you do not, and you absolutely do not want some paid person showing up and just taking your child by force...or lawyers embroiling you in a court battle you can't afford and/or seizing the child via officials who may or may not get a gratuity for same...
Possession is 9/10ths of the law and if they get ahold of your kid good luck getting your baby back.
I may be paranoid...but...
Custody in the US seems to sometimes boil down to who physically has the child and who has the more money to hire attorneys. I therefore have no trouble imagining it works that way elsewhere.
You contact her, you are running a risk she will come after your kid via judicial and not-so judicial means.
I would never risk that, myself. Morality? Sod that. You can let her know when the kid's 16-the age of majority in the UK.
Then the contact's on your child's terms.
It's not ethically wrong not to say anything to her. It might expose you to a threat to inform her. I recommend against it.
It's his mother, really, let him 'fess up.
Possession is 9/10ths of the law and if they get ahold of your kid good luck getting your baby back.
I may be paranoid...but...
Custody in the US seems to sometimes boil down to who physically has the child and who has the more money to hire attorneys. I therefore have no trouble imagining it works that way elsewhere.
You contact her, you are running a risk she will come after your kid via judicial and not-so judicial means.
I would never risk that, myself. Morality? Sod that. You can let her know when the kid's 16-the age of majority in the UK.
Then the contact's on your child's terms.
It's not ethically wrong not to say anything to her. It might expose you to a threat to inform her. I recommend against it.
It's his mother, really, let him 'fess up.
Neverthesame
Diamond Member
I think if your motivation for doing so, is to possibly add another source of love and support for your child. I don't see anything unethical about that.
The concern that this may prompt the father to seek custody is a valid one. I am not familiar with Ukrainian law regarding this sort of thing. So I am unable to give you any useful advice in that regard. Though, you may want to speak with a solicitor ahead of time to see if there is a way to block such a thing, before it happens.
As for how this woman will react to all of this, I can't fathom a guess. She may be thrilled to learn of this, respect your wishes to keep her son out of it, and just be happy to be included in her grandson's life as a grandmother.
Or she may insist that her son be involved, which could incur the legal custody battle you fear. She may do this with both good or bad intent.
Or she may be the tree which the apple never fell far from. She might turn into a complete beast, denounce the whole thing and want nothing to do with you or your child.
Though I think if you are able to not put your child at risk (the custody thing), and are prepared for a possible negative emotional backlash. I don't see anything wrong with trying.
The concern that this may prompt the father to seek custody is a valid one. I am not familiar with Ukrainian law regarding this sort of thing. So I am unable to give you any useful advice in that regard. Though, you may want to speak with a solicitor ahead of time to see if there is a way to block such a thing, before it happens.
As for how this woman will react to all of this, I can't fathom a guess. She may be thrilled to learn of this, respect your wishes to keep her son out of it, and just be happy to be included in her grandson's life as a grandmother.
Or she may insist that her son be involved, which could incur the legal custody battle you fear. She may do this with both good or bad intent.
Or she may be the tree which the apple never fell far from. She might turn into a complete beast, denounce the whole thing and want nothing to do with you or your child.
Though I think if you are able to not put your child at risk (the custody thing), and are prepared for a possible negative emotional backlash. I don't see anything wrong with trying.
- Post starter
- #4
@Stickler I should clarify that it doesn't work the same way when it's transnational jurisdiction ... she can't just show up and take the kid and even starting a court battle against me would be incredibly difficult, because I don't have permanent residency in the country I am living in (which is necessary for any international court cases on child custody).
Legally cannot show up and take the kid.
...My aunt "kidnapped" her son, my nephew, from our house...I believe my uncle did have legal custody...drove 2000 miles to her home state, sued for custody and was able to retain it.
My friend's ex-GF was able to give primary custody to her crazy, bigoted family, despite the boy's father fighting until he ran out of money, this by virtue of crossing state lines.
...I have seen these two instances of children being disappeared in custody disputes. Legal shenanigans then followed, and those who ran off with the kids...essentially...won.
So my heuristic may be canted at a strange angle. But I fear that they might decide they want your child, they will get your child...and they will obtain your child. Proving the documents they have to keep your child are not legitimate (ahem " issued in error", ahem) will be a battle that takes his or her whole childhood.
That's where my paranoid little mind goes, because child custody disputes can contain the dirtiest of dirty tricks. And they will tell themselves they are doing it for your child's benefit, to give them a stable home and a proper private school education.
...My aunt "kidnapped" her son, my nephew, from our house...I believe my uncle did have legal custody...drove 2000 miles to her home state, sued for custody and was able to retain it.
My friend's ex-GF was able to give primary custody to her crazy, bigoted family, despite the boy's father fighting until he ran out of money, this by virtue of crossing state lines.
...I have seen these two instances of children being disappeared in custody disputes. Legal shenanigans then followed, and those who ran off with the kids...essentially...won.
So my heuristic may be canted at a strange angle. But I fear that they might decide they want your child, they will get your child...and they will obtain your child. Proving the documents they have to keep your child are not legitimate (ahem " issued in error", ahem) will be a battle that takes his or her whole childhood.
That's where my paranoid little mind goes, because child custody disputes can contain the dirtiest of dirty tricks. And they will tell themselves they are doing it for your child's benefit, to give them a stable home and a proper private school education.
- Post starter
- #6
I appreciate your warning, but I have to stress how impossible it would even be for her to take the kid -- she does not know my address (I relocated from where I was living before) and she has no way to find it - there is no government office here where I am registered, no database in which my information is listed. The only information in any database would be the Customs Service, which has the date I most recently flew into the country, and nothing else. I have no driver's license here, no registration, no nothing. The only way she could show up and take the kid is if I invited her to my home.
EveHarrington
VIP Member
Why are you assuming that the mother will follow the law when it comes to her grandchild? Her son cannot follow the law and he probably got some if not all of his moral code from her.
IMHO it's not a matter of ethics. Ethics-schmethics. We're talking about the safety of your child.
"Blood" is no insurance of "love". (A forum of child abuse survivors can echo this sentiment.)
Why all the risk for a potential source of love/support? (Very potential IMHO.)
You'll have to deal with this woman for the next 18+ years. She has the potential to make your life miserable. (Truly miserable.)
What is the likelihood of her taking your word over her son's? Ok, I realize your mamma-bear protection mechanism hasn't kicked in yet (or this probably wouldn't be a thread; I mean questioning the ethics of exposing your unborn child to a potentially abusive situation?)----but she's had many years of being the mamma bear and protecting her son. I think you have visions of a loving grandmother, but the way I see it, you're much more likely to be painted----(in a not nice way/think the worst villainization possible)-----because her son is going to say you're a crazy woman after money who has been stalking him and harassing him for the last six months because you couldn't handle his rejection. (Or something similar.)
Maybe you should go watch that Sally Field movie about international kidnapping? (It was based on a true story.) I don't mean to scare you, but why take all of these unnecessary risks for a slight/very slight chance that the grandmother will actually want this child?
IMHO it's not a matter of ethics. Ethics-schmethics. We're talking about the safety of your child.
"Blood" is no insurance of "love". (A forum of child abuse survivors can echo this sentiment.)
Why all the risk for a potential source of love/support? (Very potential IMHO.)
You'll have to deal with this woman for the next 18+ years. She has the potential to make your life miserable. (Truly miserable.)
What is the likelihood of her taking your word over her son's? Ok, I realize your mamma-bear protection mechanism hasn't kicked in yet (or this probably wouldn't be a thread; I mean questioning the ethics of exposing your unborn child to a potentially abusive situation?)----but she's had many years of being the mamma bear and protecting her son. I think you have visions of a loving grandmother, but the way I see it, you're much more likely to be painted----(in a not nice way/think the worst villainization possible)-----because her son is going to say you're a crazy woman after money who has been stalking him and harassing him for the last six months because you couldn't handle his rejection. (Or something similar.)
Maybe you should go watch that Sally Field movie about international kidnapping? (It was based on a true story.) I don't mean to scare you, but why take all of these unnecessary risks for a slight/very slight chance that the grandmother will actually want this child?
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- #8
Sideways
VIP Member
I'm going out on a limb here, but I kind of like the idea:bag:
For me, though, the question of whether it's a good idea or not maybe comes down more to timing, method and the grandmother in question.
If you don't know the grandmother from a bar of soap, or you know that she's as much of an indictment against humanity as her son, then keep her out of the picture maybe. But if she's a good person? As children grow up, they tend to want to have a sense of their roots. And grandmothers can be an incredibly supportive resource...if they're the right person.
Either way, this isn't something that needs to be addressed urgently. You may feel different when your baby is in your arms. You may feel different when your child is 3, or 10, or...
And from the grandmother's perspective, I think the timing might be important as to how that news is received. Pre-birth, "I'm about to have your son's child" might sound almost threatening, a call for her to step in and defend her son. But if she was to recieve a picture of her grandchild, smiling, healthy, a new life, her living heritage, with a simple message like "This is your grandson/daughter, I wanted to share this with you..." Simple, a gesture of common humanity.
Just thoughts. Either way, I'm confident you're going to make the right decision for you and your child:)
For me, though, the question of whether it's a good idea or not maybe comes down more to timing, method and the grandmother in question.
If you don't know the grandmother from a bar of soap, or you know that she's as much of an indictment against humanity as her son, then keep her out of the picture maybe. But if she's a good person? As children grow up, they tend to want to have a sense of their roots. And grandmothers can be an incredibly supportive resource...if they're the right person.
Either way, this isn't something that needs to be addressed urgently. You may feel different when your baby is in your arms. You may feel different when your child is 3, or 10, or...
And from the grandmother's perspective, I think the timing might be important as to how that news is received. Pre-birth, "I'm about to have your son's child" might sound almost threatening, a call for her to step in and defend her son. But if she was to recieve a picture of her grandchild, smiling, healthy, a new life, her living heritage, with a simple message like "This is your grandson/daughter, I wanted to share this with you..." Simple, a gesture of common humanity.
Just thoughts. Either way, I'm confident you're going to make the right decision for you and your child:)
I think Eve has a good point too...
The thing is...we know HE is not a nice guy at all.
Want to place bets on whether he's a fluke in a family of saints?
...Or if the apple did not fall far from the tree?
I think the family is more liable to be a threat than to welcome this child.
Besides, didn't we speculate that he's got an arranged marriage?
...that an unintended child would totally mess up?
In which case they'd actually be angrier that you told them! If they don't know the arranged marriage can go on.
The thing is...we know HE is not a nice guy at all.
Want to place bets on whether he's a fluke in a family of saints?
...Or if the apple did not fall far from the tree?
I think the family is more liable to be a threat than to welcome this child.
Besides, didn't we speculate that he's got an arranged marriage?
...that an unintended child would totally mess up?
In which case they'd actually be angrier that you told them! If they don't know the arranged marriage can go on.
- Post starter
- #10
@EveHarrington I have to say, I'm a bit insulted by your implication that I'm failing to protect my baby. My protective instincts have actually kicked in, and I do not have "visions of a loving grandmother." Nowhere did I say that at all. I said I felt like I should tell her, not that I expected her to respond in an ideal manner. I have come to terms with the realization that in fact, she will probably not have a positive reaction and she probably will take her son's side. That is a risk I am willing to take. At least I will know that I tried, and I won't feel like the jerk who deprived her son of knowing his grandmother. Also, I appreciate all the warnings about possible kidnappings, but it seems like no one is paying any attention to the details I've provided that would make that next to impossible -- and the movie you're referring to was about a different scenario, a COMPLETELY different scenario. The woman's child was kidnapped because she was tricked on foreign soil. I'm not traveling to foreign soil to visit the father's family, it's actually quite the opposite. The father's mother would have to travel to a foreign country where she doesn't know the language to try to track me down when there is no way to find me. Even if she hires a lawyer, they wouldn't be able to find me to deliver any paperwork -- I have no registered address. Even if she were to hire a private investigator, they'd have no place to start. The father isn't even aware I'm in this country anymore; he thinks I'm in the States.
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- #11
Sideways
VIP Member
Or maybe you could wait 5 or 6 years and have a conversation with your child about how they feel? Make the decision together?
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- #12
@Stickler No, some random person on the last thread speculated that he's got an arranged marriage; that was a theory I did not agree with, nor did I have any reason to believe. I understand that a lot of people on here have had bad experiences with custody battles gone wrong, or they know people who have, but I am once again kindly requesting that you take into consideration the fact that my case is transnational, the logistics of which make it nearly impossible for any kidnappings or even legal hassles.
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