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What to Use as Consequences for Actions?

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Here are a few links of suggestion on how to deal with these issues:

[DLMURL]http://www.ptsdforum.org/thread1460.html[/DLMURL]

[DLMURL]http://www.ptsdforum.org/thread5159.html[/DLMURL]

[DLMURL]http://www.ptsdforum.org/thread1476.html[/DLMURL]

[DLMURL]http://www.ptsdforum.org/thread3058.html[/DLMURL]

[DLMURL]http://www.ptsdforum.org/thread4717.html[/DLMURL]

[DLMURL]http://www.ptsdforum.org/thread5303.html[/DLMURL]

[DLMURL]http://www.ptsdforum.org/thread2296.html[/DLMURL]
*please read the pdf*


bec
 
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ahhh see I posted this here in this forum to get both sides of the view!! and yes Bec I am use to dealing with children and I tend to think from a mothers point of view so wasn't sure what was out there when dealing with adults. But I do think this topic is something that is never talked about and when it comes up in real life its usually WHEN something is needed not really something people actually plan before hand what they would do if they needed to let someone know they are steping over the line so to speek.

I just feel it would be very helpfull if a carer had a better idea what they could do to let the PTSD sufferer know they are doing something hurtfull and how better to work on improving the situation BEFORE it comes to the "I can't take it anymore and am leaving" I know talking everything out and letting each other understand feelings and all that stuff is the best.. but not alwase does that happen. So just thought some ideas on what might be good to try and what would NOT be a good idea to do would be.
 
I am not anxious to become involved in this thread, as it has become quite volatile. However, I will make a couple of points. In my opinion, some of the suggestions mentioned here would be damaging to any relationship, regardless if PTSD is present or not. For example, withholding sex is probably one of the biggest mistakes couples make, yes we have all done it, but that does not make it right. Of course everyone gets tired, feels ill or irritated and thus refuses sex, but that is different from purposely withholding sex to achieve an end, i.e. do as I say or I won't have sex with you. Sex is such an intimate activity, probably the most intimate in life, and the couple bears their souls to each other so to speak, so game playing for whatever reason can be extrememly damaging. Emerald, you really did need to clarify your point about sex, because in your first response you described withholding sex as a threat, which is a completely different scenario from your second response, where you describe someone being abusive in bed. I must agree with Bec, abuse in the bedroom is something I would never tolerate and I would not simply refuse sex... I would demand the person receive counseling or I would leave. That is not a healthy nor safe way to live.

The silent treatment is also a very damaging thing and absolutely not allowed in our home. No one in our house is allowed to go to bed angry, especially my husband and myself. Not speaking for several days only increases the tension and bad feelings, not to mention it is very immature in my opinion. It is different if you need time to clear the air, have a break or even get away for a couple of days. That is acceptable, as long as you explain to your partner what is going on. But to simply walk around the house avoiding eye contact, slamming doors and cupboards and refusing to speak is childish and hurtful, and makes things unpleasant for the entire family.
 
If he's yelling at her when she's trying to get stuff done and it's not up to his par - I think making him cook his own meals and clean his own house isn't out of line. He's not "SICK"...he's angry. Let's not be so dramatic.

Note the bold text--you are being subjective. I could easily reword that without much effort and make it seem like the other side is the right side and the 'right' side is 'wrong'. It wouldnt be difficult at all. I agree with bec. Simply arguing about it will not help anything.

As for vacations and not speaking - come on...in what world do you live in that you WANT to go on a vacation with someone who repeatedly cannot control themselves, and depending on what the person with PTSD is doing, I think NOT speaking can be one of the best things you do.

Again you are being [DLMURL="http://dictionary.reference.com/search?db=dictionary&q=subjective"]subjective[/DLMURL].
PTSD is not an attitude problem.
Now it's my turn to be subjective. Because it seems to me that you completely lack any compassion or empathy. If an issue comes up as a result of PTSD, how is being a tard going to help anything? You wanna know what I respond to people like you who come picking a fight over my issues? I give them the finger and walk away before I do something stupid I'll regret later on.

Insert foot into mouth.
And let me make it even more clear - I am not saying this should be done to a child that, say, is having flashbacks. I'm saying I'd take away TV in a heartbeat to a kid that can't seem to respect my property because his anger keeps making him break stuff. And gee...if the PTSD is making him hang with the wrong crowd and spend his money on drugs or alchol...perhaps taking the allowance away just MIGHT be smart. But, you go ahead and tell that child your feeeeeellings on it, because I'm sure he'll respect that.

If your child keeps getting angry enough to break stuff maybe you should start to mend the situation by not pissing him off and being compassionate to his situations. Maybe, ohhhh I dont know.... GIVE HIM A HUG??!?!?!!! I hope to God that you are not a parent because if your kid is acting like that and that is your response then you will seriously have some major problems until s/he is 18. Good luck with that. I hope you don't mind being hated.
 
I just feel it would be very helpfull if a carer had a better idea what they could do to let the PTSD sufferer know they are doing something hurtfull and how better to work on improving the situation BEFORE it comes to the "I can't take it anymore and am leaving" I know talking everything out and letting each other understand feelings and all that stuff is the best.. but not alwase does that happen. So just thought some ideas on what might be good to try and what would NOT be a good idea to do would be.

I believe the problem Damiea, is that your question is too general. As Emerald pointed out, she did not know your situation or your relationship with the PTSD sufferer. There is a vast difference I believe, between boundaries established within a committed relationship, to boundaries one establishes with a child (regardless of age, I am including adult children), or a sibling, or a friend. Additionally, only you and your family can know what works best for your particular PTSD sufferer. Much of that happens through trial and error. You are a mother Damiea, and so am I; as mothers we both know that each child is an individual, unique, and that some methods which work wonderfully for one child will not work well at all for another.

I have had more than one PTSD sufferer in my life, and each of them I treated completely differently, however I respect(ed) them all. The bottom line is I believe, The Golden Rule. Treat others as you would like to be treated yourself. If you start out respecting the person, the chances of hurting them whilst establishing boundaries lessens greatly.
 
Sorry I didn't mean to start an argument! Its just I read so much about how the carer needs to take care of themselfs and set bounderys and stick with them... but when you love the person its very hard to know what to do when they lash out at you and do or say something hurtfull... it seems most carers just take it becouse they DON"T want to leave the person. Also it seems like most carers are so very unsure what to say and how to say things to talk about issues like when something happens that is hurtfull.. how to prevent it or keep it from happening over and over... like name calling.. or cheeting.. or drinking.. or just plan being argumentive over everything.

I hear mostly that it's needed to TALK stuff over.. but carers seem very fearfull to bring stuff up incase this triggers MORE of the same behavior they are trying to prevent. and I guess I was asking not so much for my personal situation exactly because that is so different from the normal situation here.. rather I see what can happen when NOTHING is done at all and what the end result of that can be. Yet we do have to set bounderys in my situation but the sufferer in my case doesn't live with us.. we deal with lots of the same issues and knowing what might be good and what is not good is helpfull!
 
Damiea, have you read the [DLMURL]http://www.ptsdforum.org/thread5254.html[/DLMURL] thread I started a while back? I compiled that information from several sources. It is not very well organized at present, however it may be good for people to read. It is not simply my thoughts but is based on the experience and opinions of many different carers.
 
I find it incredible that you think it's OK for people with PTSD to react to their partners with anger and hostility and NOT expect more than just....I'll go for a drive while you calm down. Oh. Very helpful. LOL...let me know how THAT works out for ya, because that only works with rational people.

Has worked out wonderfully for us. My husband knew I was going nuts working through issues and symptoms. I was very angry and hostile when I never slept, was a prisoner in my own home, and in my own mind. When things escalated is when he would either let me go lock myself away in my room or load everyone up and leave to give me space. I would calm down and he would talk to me.

I have for the life of me never understood the things discussed as setting boundaries with day to day PTSD life. If PTSD is not controlled many symptoms can't be. My husband and I opted to work on PTSD in therapy to get rid of those "annoying habits" (yes, term used loosely). But my opinion on this has never been a secret here before.

Damiea, Not an argument as such, just a hot topic. Lively debates are good as it helps PTSDers learn how to argue a point without making them self ill. If someone gets sick from this post (and PTSD does make you sick when others only see anger) then they know they still have work to do.

Name calling - Therapists. An outside party intervening. If someone cannot cut it out then you are being emotionally abused. Anyone being abused should not stick around.

Cheating - You have to be a very forgiving soul for this. While somethings may not be forgivable to some it is to others. On this topic my opinion is any spouse, PTSD or not who cheats will likely do it again (not 100% but I think it is up there). Especially if the partner says oh you better not do it again... To me this should be treated as you would if the person has PTSD or not. I will say poor impulse control does play a part and impulse control will improve with therapy and healing. But how do you know if that is the case and will feel remorse and never repeat it? They may just be a louse PTSD or not. Not everyone who has PTSD was a good person before.

Drinking - Therapy. It is a process. If the person becomes abusive drinking then see above under abusive behavior. If they are drinking and not harming anyone else (just annoying all to hell) give therapy time.

Generally argumentative. I was the queen of this one. I yelled, slammed things, broke things, cried, it took time and patience. My therapist helped, but Anthony did most of all, making me face what emotions I was stuffing up that would then manifest into anger. I had too many stressors. It took a couple years to fine tune my needs to make me lovable. The average carer does not have this capability. You need someone with PTSD who gets it to help and most certainly a therapist.

The talking so many speak of is after everything cools down and/or they are sober tell them you need to discuss (insert issue here) But just ONE issue. More than one can be overwhelming. Take name calling or drinking as to me drinking can lead to name calling so maybe it needs to be worked on first as if they are drunk at the times they do this to me it would be more important to start there. If they are emotionally abusive sober then start there. Ask what are they feeling when it happens. What led up to this? Try to see if you can see a pattern of stress building. Now how can "we" as you are a team work on this to defuse long enough for therapy to work?

Some behavior I have seen carers do or claim is good would have resulted in my marriage being shattered. My husband would have crowned anyone who acted like me. But he loves me and has the patience of a saint with me normally. He has had his moments that in turn leave him running to do damage control in the past though. He learned if things got so bad he was pissed off too then he needed to leave and cool down as snapping or yelling at me would have been like WWIII coming.

That is us. That is my experience. Abuse should be tolerated as much as it would in a non PTSD relationship. If you love your PTSD friend or partner understand you too will need to learn tongue biting and patience until therapy progresses well. We are much happier for it.

That does not mean flareups won't happen even when doing a lot better. I have been having flareups for a few days now and I am doing all in my power not to behave as a 2 year old around here! Does not help that I am sick and have lost my voice. So right now I cannot relate my feelings, emotions, or needs well.

I should not even be on the forum right now!
 
Hell wouldnt it be peachy if we could just do the hokey pokey spin around and say bloody mary or some shit... and the PTSD sufferer magically reacts exactly how we expect. I doubt any of us would be here if it were that easy. Relationships are hard. Period. They require work. Period. Educate yourself, know yourself and what you want, be honest, be up front, be respectful of them and yourself and you cant go wrong IMHO.
 
Also, I wanted to add therapy is a two way street. Just because a carer does not have PTSD does not mean they know how to say things tactfully. Therapy is a need for many carers too to learn how to relate well to others. When you relate to a person with PTSD without tact they don't always walk away silently pissed and holding a grudge like a normal person may. You get the whole onslaught of emotions and what they think at that moment.

You know how if someone is rude you think to yourself "sheesh that guy needs to pull that stick out of his ass" or any bad thought... Well, you may think it, a PTSDer says it before they even know what flew out of their mouth. So it is best if you know how to say something in a nice way so they don't feel put down. If they do, something will likely pop out of their mouth before they even finished the thought process and that gets a nasty ball rolling.
 
Also, I wanted to add therapy is a two way street. Just because a carer does not have PTSD does not mean they know how to say things tactfully. Therapy is a need for many carers too to learn how to relate well to others.

Excellent point, Veiled. Therapy is important, and no one should feel ashamed for going. I know there is a tendency in some families to think therapy is only for "the sick one", but it can be highly beneficial to all family members. Jim and I had marriage counseling years ago and it saved our marriage. We've had therapy again recently to deal with various issues, including PTSD obviously, and it has been most helpful. Those who are able should definitely avail themselves of it.

And yes Travis I agree, well put!
 
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