When A Narcissist Is 'good'

[shimmerz]

im not sure "negitive behavior' would ever enter into any of their minds as he's there enforcing it.

This is exactly what is happening. There is an entitlement to 'think and do what they WANT' (the irony of this is striking). If someone outside of the family calls them out on it; attempts to put them in their place they complain to Dad and stepmother (secondary narcissist) and they are patted on the head and sent on their way.

They dont have the seperation they need to be able to eventually see "dad isnt a saint".

I expect that this isn't actually allowed by the narc. Not from the pattern I have seen, anyway. Every time my youngest tries to even attempt to live life as 'him' there is something that his father does. Last thing was a Mercedes and a bigger house. I am so sick of hearing what a 'great guy' he is.

he un-plants it right away way faster then it was planted so they never have a chance to doubt.

Yes. Exactly. It got so bad that the oldest got involved to seal the deal with the youngest two - so it isn't just him and the stepmother anymore. It is the oldest son too.... and he is just as bad as the father, if not worse. It is heartbreaking to watch. Now there are grandchildren involved and I need to step back from them completely. I can't watch this happen with other children nor be involved. And if I am in their lives I know this will happen to them too.

I was hoping there may be survivors out there who had experienced this. Your input in invaluable to me. Thank you.

 

[shimmerz]

A narcissist is NEVER good !!!

They are when you don't know they are a narcissist and they are wanting something from you. I realize that their intentions are (I hate to use the word always, but I will here) always self serving.... but they trap their supply because they seem good.

 

[shimmerz]

Maybe this is why some people think narcissism comes from a lack of self esteem. I think nothing could be further from the truth.

In watching my kids (which is hardly an official study) I have noticed that their SELVES have actually been replaced. Out of necessity. To survive with their father. So their current SELVES are bloated with feelings of entitlement, don't EVER tell them that they are wrong, they are smarter and better than everyone else.

Prior to their adopting their new SELVES they were beaten and abused children who never knew what was going to hit them.

I personally don't believe that they lack self confidence. Although the self that we are speaking of is false. I think if they were to actually dismantle that sense of self for whatever reason that underneath there would be a very frightened, abused, terrified, child self.

So I must agree with both of you. If one was to strip away the father's family, take away what they have because of the father, then you would see an incredibly vulnerable, child like person. But until then. Very, very dangerous..... and incredibly self confident. So much so that they eat people for breakfast without any type of remorse or empathy.

 

[scout86]

One of the things I like about working with animals is "what you see is what you get". One of the things that causes me problems is, with a lot of people, what you see on the surface is nowhere near what's really there.

I had a couple interesting conversations with my mother. In the most revealing, we were on the phone when she was in the nursing home. With me, she was all sweetness, tragedy, submission, victim, etc. Then an aide came in to ask about supper (which I came to find out had been unacceptable). My mother's tone flipped 180 degrees in a heart beat and she told the aid in no uncertain terms how she found the meal. I'd never actually seen her do that before. Another time, she was talking about my brother (who also has NPD type issues). She said something to the affect that he thought he was running the show but she knew how to run him. Said it in a cold blooded way that was totally different than her usual "sweet little old lady" persona. I asked one of my dad's cousins, who was visiting my mom fairly often, about it. She said she'd heard the same kind of thing. I asked what she said about me when I wasn't around.... Cousin said, "Oh, she doesn't talk about you at all." (And she probably didn't. LOL)

After our mother died, my brother wrote such a saccharine obituary for her it about made me gag. We obviously had quite different childhoods! My T always says, "We all have our own road map of reality. They are all different, but none of them are reality, they are only road maps." And I think that explains a lot of this. My brother DOES have a vastly different road map of reality than I do. In his version, his mother was a sweet, kind, long suffering woman who oozed unconditional love. In my version, she was pretty different. In his version, I really AM ungrateful, uncaring, greedy, cold blooded, and what ever else he's come up with. In my version, I have a lot of short comings but not so much those.

Watching things evolve (and devolve) while my parents were aging and dying was a real education. I'm glad I had my T around to bounce things off of! Trying to manage without some input from someone who actually got what was going on would have been rough. But, I eventually decided that, at the bottom, these people actually BELIEVE this stuff. It's their reality. That's why they call it a "disorder". They DO think they're special, they DO think what they want is all that matters, etc. In their version of reality, reality revolves around THEM and that's normal and "what they deserve". To mess with that, you mess with the very foundation of the universe. Of course they flip out. I had always kind of thought it was an act, designed to push people where they want them. Some of it seems to be that. But, at the very bottom is the belief that the universe is SUPPOSED to revolve around them, and nothing else matters beyond what THEY want.

 

[shimmerz]

With me, she was all sweetness, tragedy, submission, victim, etc. Then an aide came in to ask about supper (which I came to find out had been unacceptable). My mother's tone flipped 180 degrees in a heart beat and she told the aid in no uncertain terms how she found the meal. I'd never actually seen her do that before.

I am going to refer to that as you being able to see her 'parts'. Different parts come out for different situations.

They DO think they're special, they DO think what they want is all that matters, etc.

Yes, and I believe they do this because they are doing EVERYTHING they can to cover up this:

I think if they were to actually dismantle that sense of self for whatever reason that underneath there would be a very frightened, abused, terrified, child self.

Which personally I could care a less about for any of them. Except they are my kids and I knew intimately what lovely souls they were before he got them.

 

[scout86]

Different parts come out for different situations.

:wideeyed::wideeyed::wideeyed: :nailbiting:

 

[scout86]

I knew intimately what lovely souls they were before he got them.

I'm sort of floundering around, throwing out ideas, here, so this might be way off.

My T says he thinks there's a genetic component to narcissism and psychopathy, like there is to some other mental disorders. There's probably a complicated interplay between genetics and environment that's involved. But, his theory seems to be you won't be a true narcissist without having the "narcissist gene". But, there are lots of other ways people's personalities can get distorted, you know? Maybe there's hope for one or more of your kids. Maybe they're caught up in this "cult" of their father's making and feel like they need to fit in and play along, but maybe they are ALL "real narcissists". Possible?

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I was hoping there may be survivors out there who had experienced this. Your input in invaluable to me. Thank you.

You are very welcome!

Think of it as a form of brainwashing. They are brainwashed to believe this by their father and im positive they fully do and I also see it very primal. And now "the sucessor" has taken his place.

Its heart breaking to hear of your oldest and the grandchildren!

It is truely heartbreaking! I am so sorry that this has happened to your kids. Ive thought a lot about this, of how to plant that seed of doubt so it will stick in the back of one of their minds and then travel but honestly, without a good amount of seperation, I honestly see no way to do that. At the end of the day, you are momma (and grand momma) and i know this is horrid to watch and breaking your heart! Im so sorry! :hug:

 

[shimmerz]

My T says he thinks there's a genetic component to narcissism and psychopathy, like there is to some other mental disorders.

There was something different about my oldest one right from birth. He would breastfeed and bite me and I swear to god he would look at me to see the reaction. Yes, I believe there is a gene thing that happens. The reason I have hung on so long with my other two is because I don't feel they have that 'gene'. So yes, I believe you have something there.

Abuse can do some dramatically horrifying things to one's personality as well, I have learned. Changes everything. But I believe that if, at the end of the day something triggers my youngest two into seeing any of this - it will be a hell of a battle for them to get back to the SELVES that they were before all of this happened to them. It is like they have sold their souls.... and my oldest.... I don't think it was a matter of selling his soul. I think he was all about him from the get-go. Thanks Scout. Appreciate that.

 

[shimmerz]

without a good amount of seperation, I honestly see no way to do that.

The separation has been in play all the way along. So no, I am screwed. As are my grandchildren. I am caught between a rock and a hardspot here.

Thank you so much Lost, you have helped me tremendously.

 

[scout86]

It is like they have sold their souls.

Exactly. And, you know, that's why I was in such a hurry to escape my parent's house and why I was so reluctant to ever except anything from them. It felt like selling my soul and that was something I wasn't willing to part with. When you think about it, being the scapegoat might be a stroke of luck!

 

[shimmerz]

being the scapegoat might be a stroke of luck!

I have felt that often. I would much rather be the scapegoat than the golden child. I was actually the golden child for a while with my mother - because I had her first (and only) grandchild. It completely destroyed my sister. Completely. SHE was the golden child. My mother died shortly afterwards. The last conversation my mother had with my sister was why I should be treated with reverence because of my 'motherly duties'.

My sister has never recovered. And she never will. I didn't realize until just a year and a half ago that I was in the revered golden child position with my mother when she died. And how I played a part (sort of) in destroying my sisters life.

This is a dangerous, dangerous game. Give me scapegoat who has the guts to speak up any day of the week. You and me Scout..... I suppose we have the radar detector for this type of stuff and although it isn't easy..... it is better than being my sister.