When Suicide Becomes Justified

[Tinyflame]

Hi @Scarface , I won't say much, but thank you for your honesty.

I will however quote some of your words:

I can't stand to see everyone flaunting their fabulous lives. I have become a total recluse because of my face, and this is actually a very common reaction to facial trauma/disfigurement.

You know people show what they want, not what 'is'. And no one knows what will be. And of course it's not a big leap to think of, for example, breast cancer. Usually, lots of scars, 'disfigurement', swollen limbs (lymphadema), loss of hair, eyelashes, skin turbidity changes, eye & vision changes (loss of tears), hair growth where you don't need it, etc. Not as a comparison, just unfortunately pretty common. Yet many want to fight, to live.. The group you mentioned, it is good to be able to relate. But as others have said, are they too early in the stages of recovery?

I know you probably won't believe me, but I've worked with & helped care for people after catastrophic injury & illness. The usual response they have is grief, utter despair, & plans to die. Followed (they tell me) a new life they never believed was possible when they get some help (not help for what cannot be changed, but what can. And a realization they are not alone, the fear is reduced- usually what they fear they find to be much unfounded, the future very different from what they feared). Most importantly, many of these same people are much happier than most I know who have what might be described as a carefree or idealic life. I'm telling you only because it's so, & I'm privy to it.

if my co-worker were to ask me about my scar like that I would punch her in the face! So you see, it will hold me back.

No. I see a woman full of courage. Give yourself credit for your fighting spirit.

the cause of my trauma is my scarring, and without some relief with it, I will never lead a good quality of life.

No, the cause of your trauma is not the scarring if you have ptsd. The scar is the constant reminder when you see it or think of it of your trauma. Of thinking in 'nevers'.

I went from being a confident, carefree, adventurous, athletic, woman who loved to travel the world and meet new people to this hell on earth. Every day I wake up hoping that this is a horrible nightmare, but it's not.

Yes I've lived some of that & cried when I wake up . But, you are still the adventurous, athletic woman inside, that's your character & nature, not your face.

And yes, there may be other avenues. I know there is a young woman here in canada, she was badly burned as a child. She has created her own special colors of tatoo's for burn scars. There's another woman on youtube who with makeup can turn virtually anyone of any nationality in to the celebrity look-a-like of their choice. Btw, most actual celebrities, photoshop aside (& photoshop is passe, far better techniques than that are used now) can't be recognized without their makeup.

I realize this is horrific. To the core. :( You are brave. You are faced with the biggest challenge of your life. In something so unbearable, so frightening, you need to give yourself credit & JMHExperience go minutes or hours at a time.

I believe you mentioned you have sufficient funds to go to Switzerland, the money itself is a resource. What about a Therapist over Skype, if leaving the house is too difficult?

 

[anonymous]

Hi Scarface, I've been listening. I'm struggling with responding though partially due to the late hours in which I have free time and use of my computer.

What you've been saying makes as much sense to me as the compassionate, good intentioned other voices here does. It all makes sense.

I think the fuel to this discussion is in its title. Apparently, Ptsd survivors/sufferers who find a site like this and stick around for even a little while, do not believe that there is ever any justification for, or hope in suicide. I don't for one minute believe that others here believe that having Ptsd provides real and justifiable necessity to commit suicide, never mind having the logic for doing so being facial scars. All of our original identities have been, to some degree, removed from us. And, for some of us this identity loss has repeated itself.

Some years back and while a member of the forum, I had through multi-faceted therapeutic hard work and attempts reached significant and successful ego transformations, however along the way, I seriously weakened a far earlier spiritual transformation of self and identity for which I had surrendered to years prior, out of sheer desperation.

Then, while still a member of the forum, the unexpected night arrived that as passenger, I was in an auto accident which resulted in forehead scarring and visible asymmetric eyebrows, (as I'd lost part of right eyebrow into the windshield), but I sustained significant head injury as well.

The ER and my experience with the Doctor, (or should I say, lack of experience and time), as she was grossly inept with me on that job that night, created much future misunderstanding and loss, as well as, charged and fed lasting emotional trauma.

I did as she'd said and went to the plastic surgeon two days later on that Monday and one of the first things she told me was that my window of opportunity for any repairs closes at forty-eight hours, out.

Tonight, I can't say much more, as I'm exhausted and the memories surrounding her can still sometimes be painful. The eyebrow loss and scarring is still there, even after my Opthamologist's office at one point had arranged an appointment for me with a reconstructive surgeon. 6 months later at it, I was met with bad news which I found devastating. Prior, I'd been continuing to return to the plastic/cosmetic surgeons for which I was originally directed.

Dear Scarface, I'm sorry about perhaps imposing some of my story here, as this is not my intent. Rather, I am concerned about whether you know or not the condition, or true severity of your head injury and whether or not you'd recognize these symptoms and have and follow through with proper support.

Also, the reason I repeated the word transformation when telling you about my experience, is I get it. People value and seek transformations on different fronts and for different, sometimes very sensitive, personal, important reasons. One person's definition of success, achievement, a gift (whichever) is not that of all others.

I trust this thread/discussion would've unfolded differently if it held a less provocative title, and more like the one titled Ptsd and my facial scars is killing me. I hear you Scarface and understand how much confusion, grief and anguish it is desiring something previously valued that has been misplaced or lost. I also understand considering and contemplating suicide, though I assure you it is not required, and for now may only seem this way. I had thought about both homicide and suicide following my accident, and I still sometimes reflect upon suicide as a possible later solution and for other progressive reasons for which I won't go into.

Ok. I'm exhausted. I'll be posting this now, even though I'm afraid, it's been slow and I can't keep up with this thread and have fallen behind.

Someone out there in this world cares about you. You'll get through this, just as you're. Hang in there, even when people do not understand and until they do.

 

[anonymous]

Not previously valued,

Valued. Sorry about my error.

 

[Friday]

Could it be this simple???

Backtracking just for a second here... @Scarface... Do you understand what PTSD is? That the symptoms & effects on your life you're listing out are PTSD symptoms?

((AKA symptoms we all have. So if you don't really understand what PTSD is, everything would suddenly make a whole lot of sense as to why we're all going round in circles, here; You keep saying, but you don't understand these terrible things my scar is causing in my life....Yes. We do. Intimately... No you don't, there's ABC!... Yes, we know...No. ABC!...Yes... No! You don't get it... Yes we do. Ad naseam. If you don't understand PTSD, my profound apologies. I was diagnosed a solid 15 years before I understood PTSD was "more" than nightmares & panic attacks / should have caught this possibility earlier. ))

CriterionA Trauma - Accident
Trigger - Scar
Symptoms - (I started to pull quotes from these 2 threads, but figured it might just be simpler to pull from the DSM5. If you don't see how these apply? More than happy to pull direct quotes for you. :) But to save time in the meantime... These are the symptoms jumping off the page just from your writing. You may very well have others)

• Intense or prolonged psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event(s) (everything you've ever said about your scar... Ever),
• Marked physiological reactions to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event(s) - (Again, all the physical reactions to your scar)
  
• Persistent and exaggerated negative beliefs or expectations about oneself, others, or the world
• Persistent, distorted cognitions about the cause or consequences of the traumatic event(s) that lead the individual to blame himself/herself or others.
• Persistent negative emotional state (e.g., fear, horror, anger, guilt, or shame).
• Markedly diminished interest or participation in significant activities.
• Feelings of detachment or estrangement from others.
• Persistent inability to experience positive emotions (e.g., inability to experience happiness, satisfaction, or loving feelings).
• Marked physiological reactions to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event(s).
• Avoidance of or efforts to avoid external reminders (people, places, conversations, activities, objects, situations) that arouse distressing memories, thoughts, or feelings about or closely associated with the traumatic event(s).
  
• Persistent and exaggerated negative beliefs or expectations about oneself, others, or the world

Dead Link Removed
A. Exposure to actual or threatened death, serious injury, or sexual violence in one (or more) of the following ways:

1. Directly experiencing the traumatic event(s),
2. Witnessing, in person, the event(s) as it occurred to others,
3. Learning that the traumatic event(s) occurred to a close family member or close friend. In cases of actual or threatened death of a family member or friend, the event(s) must have been violent and accidental.
4. Experiencing repeated or extreme exposure to aversive details of the traumatic event(s) (e.g., first responders collecting human remains; police officers repeatedly exposed to details of child abuse).

Note: Criterion A4 does not apply to exposure to electronic media, television, movies, or pictures, unless the exposure is work related.

B. Presence of one (or more) of the following intrusion symptoms associated with the traumatic event(s), beginning after the traumatic event(s) occurred:

1. Recurrent, involuntary, and intrusive distressing memories of the traumatic event(s) Note: In children older than 6 years, repetitive play may occur in which themes or aspects of the traumatic event(s) are expressed.
2. Recurrent distressing dreams in which the content and/or affect of the dream are related to the traumatic event(s). Note:In children, there may be frightening dreams without recognizable content.
3. Dissociative reactions (e.g., flashbacks) in which the individual feels or acts as if the traumatic event(s) were recurring. (Such reactions may occur on a continuum, with the most extreme expression being a complete loss of awareness of present surroundings.) Note: In children, trauma-specific reenactment may occur in play.
4. Intense or prolonged psychological distress at exposure to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event(s).
5. Marked physiological reactions to internal or external cues that symbolize or resemble an aspect of the traumatic event(s).

C. Persistent avoidance of stimuli associated with the traumatic event(s), beginning after the traumatic event(s) occurred, as evidence by one or both of the following:

1. Avoidance of or efforts to avoid distressing memories, thoughts, or feelings about or closely associated with the traumatic event(s).
2. Avoidance of or efforts to avoid external reminders (people, places, conversations, activities, objects, situations) that arouse distressing memories, thoughts, or feelings about or closely associated with the traumatic event(s).

D. Negative alterations in cognitions and mood associated with the traumatic event(s), beginning or worsening after the traumatic event(s) occurred, as evidenced by two (or more) of the following:

1. Inability to remember an important aspect of the traumatic event(s) (typically due to dissociative amnesia and not to other factors such as head injury, alcohol, or drugs).
2. Persistent and exaggerated negative beliefs or expectations about oneself, others, or the world (e.g., “I am bad,” “no one can be trusted,” “The world is completely dangerous,” “My whole nervous system is permanently ruined”).
3. Persistent, distorted cognitions about the cause or consequences of the traumatic event(s) that lead the individual to blame himself/herself or others.
4. Persistent negative emotional state (e.g., fear, horror, anger, guilt, or shame).
5. Markedly diminished interest or participation in significant activities.
6. Feelings of detachment or estrangement from others.
7. Persistent inability to experience positive emotions (e.g., inability to experience happiness, satisfaction, or loving feelings).

E. Marked alterations in arousal and reactivity associated with the traumatic event(s), beginning or worsening after the traumatic event(s) occurred, as evidenced by two (or more) of the following:

1. Irritable behavior and angry outbursts (with little or no provocation) typically expressed as verbal or physical aggression toward people or objects.
2. Reckless or self-destructive behavior.
3. Hypervigilance.
4. Exaggerated startle response.
5. Problems with concentration.
6. Sleep disturbance (e.g., difficulty falling or staying asleep or restless sleep).

F. Duration of disturbance (Criteria B, C, D, and E) is more than 1 month.

G. The disturbance causes clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning.

H. The disturbance is not attributable to the physiological effects of a substance (e.g., medication, alcohol) or another medical condition.

Specifiy whether:

With dissociative symptoms: The individual’s symptoms meet the criteria for posttraumatic stress disorder, and in addition, in response to the stressor, the individual experiences persistent or recurrent symptoms of either of the following:

1. Depersonalization: Persistent or recurrent experiences of unreality of surroundings (e.g., feeling as though one werre in a dream; feeling a sense of unreality of self or body or of time moving slowly).
2. Derealization: Persistent or recurent experiences of unreality of surroundings (e.g., the world around the individual is experienced as unreal, dreamlike, distant, or distorted).

Note: To use this subtype, the dissociative symptoms must not be attributable to the physiological effects of a substance (e.g., blackouts, behavior during alcohol intoxication) or another medical condition (e.g., complex partial seizures).

 

[Chava]

im open to other forms of therapy, but I don't even know how to find an EMDR therapist.

I find this hard to believe with the amount of research you've done around the scar and BDD. It's a pretty simple search. Here's one link (you could search your city or surrounding area, go down to "issues" list to narrow down to "trauma and PTSD"

Link Removed

I travel over 100 miles for therapy because I do very specialized therapy for my trauma. It's been worth it. Alright, I've tried to be helpful but need to disengage from this thread. You can find help and you have that power. Your choice.

Another thing I'm seeing throughout this thread: you are not engaging with most of the posters. You only disagree and hold to your own negative beliefs (super common with depression and PTSD) and you use language and maneuvers to try to isolate yourself from others on this thread (you are different, your situation is worse, it really is helpless). I'd like to point out that this negative relating, shutting down, and isolating is probably not so much about what you look like as you think...because none of us have seen you. And you are doing quite a number to isolate yourself and not engage with support here. So what part of you is doing that? It's not your scar.

Your scar is not the same thing as your belief about your scar. It would be easy to conflate, but the scar itself and your belief about the scar are actually two very different things. Your belief (along with all the other trauma triggers and symptoms) is quite strong. The good news, even if you haven't gotten good info on perfectly treating the scar itself, is that beliefs absolutely can change. You can work on both parts. You could get help for the thoughts and beliefs as soon as you can find a better therapist.

ETA: agree with @FridayJones ...that whole list of symptoms. I had scars after a surgery as a child and they made me feel really terrible. In long hindsight it was primarily because of the trigger/reminders. I wanted no reminder whatsoever of what I went through. But there is was...a couple slashes on my body. You've taken a PTSD thread and turned it into BDD after so many helpful and supportive challenges from trauma sufferers. Counter-productive but affirming your own negative beliefs. Check out the link or do your own search for trauma therapy. With your research skills, you could find a therapist (or a few options) in probably less than 15 minutes. Again, it's your choice.

 

[Kintsugi]

I find this hard to believe with the amount of research you've done around the scar and BDD.

I was wondering the same thing. Can find 5 million surgical options. Cannot find Pscyhology Today. :rolleyes:

I hope you realize, Scarface, that we're giving you all the credit in the world for being the smart, strong, savvy young woman you obviously are.

I really wonder if CBT or DBT might be a better option for you to be able to cope with BDD and PTSD in one go. However, it is early days for you concerning your trauma, so EMDR might be well-suited to you and is certainly something to look into. And by the way, I don't think any of us here would be biting at the bit to do exposure therapy. We may not all understand scars, but we all understand extreme avoidance.

 

[woundedmind]

Wrong. It IS the scar that's the problem. I can't go out in public and lead a normal life for fear of j...

Yes, I understand this. But what you don't seem to understand is that facial scarring causes significan...

I need to know the name of this clinic that will assist a person with suicide without having a prognosis of death within a year.

 

[Stickler]

@woundedmind *Sigh* Google can tell you. Since I don't want to help you kill yourself, I will leave you to do your own Internet search.

Please stick around here for a while, try therapy/meds/real-life support groups first. Suicide is irreversible; the other things are less permanent.

Remember: you're gonna die anyway. Procrastinate.

 

[StarChild]

@woundedmind, I have reported your request to the staff, as I think it is a clear breach of the forum rules. This is a PTSD forum, and not a suicide forum, dammit! Really!

And this I will tell you as well as @Scarface: If you're not having a deadly illness that's a losing game, they won't take you, and they won't help you, resp. neither help nor assist you. I'm from Switzerland, and I tell you, that I know our laws, concerning such sh*t like committing or performing assisted suicide.

 

[anthony]

I have closed this thread, as it is getting beyond the scope of this community.