BPD Why are people with borderline personality seen as bad people?

[recoveringfromptsd]

especially if someone engaged in self harm as well.

Self-harm was considered a main indicator of BPD for quite awhile.

@joeylittle I agree 100%, that's why I am blessed now with my current DX starting from a clean slate. What really bothers me is years back at some point they knew of my abuse, and even identified my ptsd, even talked about programs to deal with it, but nothing was ever done.

 

[mamachick]

@recoveringfromptsd-I appreciate your frustration in being mis diagnosed, and not offered appropriate treatment even when diagnosed correctly. I am betting you are more the rule than the exception. My insurance has blocked any real treatment.

 

[Abstract]

Hi recoveryfromptsd.

I too understood you clearly. I have no doubt that a lot of people were incorrectly labelled as BPD and it does still happen. BPD, PTSD and Bi polar as well as other things seem to get scrambled a lot. In fact PTSD and autistic spectrum seem to get muddled too. The trouble with PTSD I imagine is the avoidance issue. Many of us aren't going to say: " hi, how are you, this and that and that happened to me when I was ten".

Since diagnoses are just constructs to help people get the right treatment its a bit ironic when someone is misdiagnosed as it probably guarantees they get treatment that is unhelpful rather than helpful. BPD was also labelled as untreatable which we now know is absolutely untrue. And was misunderstood much more. Glad you received your correct diagnoses as last.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I'm guessing because a lot of them have had horrible experiences with people with untreated BPD.

Well, that is true with any disorder isn't it? Untreated PTSD can have severe effects on those around the person.

Untreated doesn't always mean undiagnised. So, if I said to a person "I have PTSD" I would get some understanding. From most. If I said I have BPD, then it is another story. I normally get an "oh my god" type of reason. An avoidence. Why? PTSD has many of the same symptoms and they cross over so much that I often don't know which one it is from. Yes, I explode, but it is anxiety (aka a PTSD symptom). Yes, unbalanced emotions is more BPD but the anxiety that caused the explosion is more PTSD.

Why is it that untreated (or even treated) BPD is like the "monster" of mental disorders?

I have had people completely stop talking to me because I told them I had BPD. Why?

And it's treated.

I assume others with loved ones with the disorder have had similar experiences.

Take a trip over the the supporter section and you will read MANY of the same stuff. Why is PTSD any different?

In my humble opinion, it is due to ignorance. People generally know you have been through some bad trauma when you have PTSD. People do not realize that many times, people with BPD have as well and it is the most common cormorbid with PTSD.

but every provider I see tells me it's impossible for me to be BPD

Do they say why it is impossible? Is it just that you don't fit the criteria or for another reason?

My mental health mentor basically once told me that BPD doesn't even really exist, that it's just a catch-all phrase for kids who got messed up by their parents' incompetency.

Totally not true!

Self-harm was considered a main indicator of BPD for quite awhile. It's still an important symptom, but BPD is no longer the only disorder that self-harm can be attributed to.

Along with SIB (self injurious behavior). A disorder all on it's own now.

They view people as either wonderful (God), or horrible (Devil) and it changes based on their needs being satisfied.

No, that is one symptom out of 9. To be diagnosed, you must have at least 5 of the 9 symtoms per the DSM 5. This is the only symptom I don't have.

Most people who have BPD don't have PTSD. Most people with PTSD don't have BPD. A fair amount of people with complex trauma (and especially whilst growing up) show personality changes and dissociation. That tends to be the arena of CPTSD. If those disturbances are enough then a personality disorder diagnoses comes into place.

True. But if there is a cormobilty, BPD is common to be cormorbid with PTSD. At least in the research that I have done. I can't cite it though as I did that research a bit over a year ago but it was found that if someone with PTSD has another disorder, BPD is commonly it.

Though, I have seen DID on here a lot so that's PTSD and DID but I don't think it's common.

Have you seen any sort of stat or documents about BPD being commonly cormobid with PTSD?

I think it might come from a parent who is over pleasing.

No. That's not in the information of what (known) causes it. Plus, it is doubtful a 15 year old can be diagnosed. She is likely just being a 15 year old.

 

[mamachick]

lost forgottensoul- RE; the original topic as to why-in your first post, you state you were manipulative but it was your way of protecting yourself. I get that, but the general population does not and does not care or ask why, they just avoid. I agree that with treatment and change, there is no reason to avoid although when disclosing this information, it may scare many off.

In your last post-you quoted 2 things I stated. Maybe I should have went into more depth. When I mentioned a 15 yr old, they are not diagnosed due to age....borderlines often act like 15 yr old selfish little brats when they are grown ups...but she is nearly 30 and doing the same. Evidently turned out to be substance abuse problem. I must have left that part out, don't know as I didn't go back and read since there are 4 pages of posts.

I am aware that the DMS has changed not that long ago, but some of those 9 criteria will still be present as they spin off of another criteria
. i.e.Old DSM was pervasive pattern of real or imagined fear of abandonment...Now -#1.show frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment (not to include suicide or self mutilating behavior), that symptom can show up within contexts of many of the other 7 criteria. That is often the motive in "I will leave you before you leave me" in sabotaging relationships, etc.

BPD is very easy to spot for most therapists. Actually, while in training, as their professors describe the BPD person, most students will relate to knowing someone that fits that criteria. Often that student is not a close friend to the BPD and has avoided the drama or have been burnt in the past by them. Even professors warn about having more than a couple clients with BPD. They are a lot of work. They will forget their co pays....as any client could.....but the borderline is pushing the limit and if you see them, they will forget it next week too. Just as you said that you manipulate to protect yourself, that is not really true. I believe that you do believe that, but manipulation is not the best form of protection. It is the therapist job to see the unconscious goals presented by the client as well as what they are reporting to the therapist.

BPD need help just as anyone and deserve the same respect. Telling people you have BPD may be compared to telling someone that you have lice. Cant blame others for being self protective either. Probably best to treat and get best therapy and only share with people who are close to you unless you want to take a hard stand for the cause.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

you state you were manipulative but it was your way of protecting yourself.

No, I stated that many on the board advised I was manipulative but to me I was in defense mode, protecting myself from, what I thought was a ton of people ready to hurt me.

That wasn't fully BPD either.

To manipulate, you really must have intent to do so. Go up thread and watch that 48 min long youtube video about BPD. Marsha Linehan is in it. That is something she stated.

I will repost if you want.

ETA:

"Back From the Edge" - Borderline Personality Disorder

PLEASE WATCH!

borderlines often act like 15 yr old selfish little brats

Wow!

Even professors warn about having more than a couple clients with BPD. They are a lot of work. They will forget their co pays....as any client could.....but the borderline is pushing the limit and if you see them, they will forget it next week too.

What? I have NEVER forgotten my co pay nor did I forget to pay my therapist when I was in an insurence hole and was self pay. Where are getting this? Forgetting isn't in the symtpom criteria.

And my therapist has MANY BPDers. He advised me of the number a while back but I don't remember but he has MANY at one time.

Telling people you have BPD may be compared to telling someone that you have lice.

Wow! I don't get that. At all! BPD is a mental disorder, from trauma in my case. What the hell difference is it to tell someone I have BPD and PTSD?

It sounds like you want me to be quiet that I have BPD because, like lice, every one will avoid me.

Why should I be ashamed to have BPD? I'd be ashamed to have lice! Why should I not tell people I have BPD? Because they will feel weird about it? Freaked out? That's their issue, not mine!

Cant blame others for being self protective either.

Just because I advise someone I have BPD, that makes them defensive and protective? Why?

I can't blame them if I have an explosion but I can blame them if all I did was advise I have BPD.

ETA: I don't agree that all BPDer manipulate. Most especially if there is no intent to manipulate.

I advised the same thing in the thread about gaslighting.

Many times the person has no idea how to do anything else and must fail to learn.

Also, I am not trying to be a jerk. I just don't get this mindset is all. I have enough shame. I don't need to be ashamed to tell people I have BPD, a mental disorder that I cannot help, like PTSD. And I shouldn't feel silenced because people are ignorant and uneducated. That's on them, not me.

 

[anonymous]

@lostforgottensoul Can I ask you a question?

Are you feeling ok?

This thread has been dormant for a while now, over a month since the last post. Yet you are now rather fervently defending your position. Which is fine, I don't disagree with you. (Even if I did, it would still be fine of course)

After what happened to you last week, (which I thought you handled wonderfully by the way) I'm wondering if your defence mode isn't still cranked up really high, compelling you to search for things that get you worked

My intent is not to upset you, nor am I implying you should stop. But more to suggest you look inward for a sec. If I have it totally wrong, just disregard me, I won't push the subject. Just wanted to put the thought out there.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Are you feeling ok?

Yep, completely fine.

Thread was dormat and I didn't reply on it because I was accidently banned for good from it instead of for a week and that was lifted so I had things I have been wanting to say but couldn't.

So that is why I am replying now and didnt before now.

I'm wondering if your defence mode isn't still cranked up really high, compelling you to search for things that get you worked

I didn't search for this thread. It was brought up in a help desk ticket yesterday, thus my reply to it.

I am also not being defensive but rather honest about my feelings and opinions.

 

[anonymous]

I'm glad to know I was wrong. :)

 

[mamachick]

lostforgottensoul-I am sorry that I either don't know or have forgotten what happened last week and glad that you are ok. I am in no way saying that you should "hide" your diagnosis. I made the comparison with lice because having lice does not make a person dirty...kids get it from other kids at school all the time....but tell someone your kids had it and watch them run...My point is that we either have to stand up for mental illness and deal with others reactions, or keep it to ourselves. We can't control how others react, but we can tell and then model what it really is. We can only control ourselves.

I am not saying that it is justified but do understand their position.I am certain that PBD is more difficult for the sufferer than the people around them. My daughter age 40 does have BPD, and I can tell you that she is a lot of work. It is just in the recent yrs that we can have any kind of equitable relationship. When she was about 15, I was seeing a therapist due to how difficult she made life for all involved. The T told me that based on my accounts, she would likely be diagnosed with BPD, end up in trouble with the law, etc. It was yrs later but it all happened. She is my daughter and I love her....and life has been hard and thats my personal experience.

No having co payment was meant as an example. BPD often push the limits is my point. You know the term, "give an inch and they will take a mile" that has been personal and professional experience. That is why T's must hold feet to fire and not let things such as a missed co pay get by. Yes we all forget. Manipulation is manipulation regardless of its intent. Often get angry when confronted. Often those around them start to tip toe around them to avoid their wrath. A great book "Walking on Eggshell" says a lot about living with a BPD person. It is impossible to have an equitable relationship with a BPD untreated.

Please know, this is nothing you need to defend. If this does not fit, maybe you have been misdiagnosed. Some ptsd symptoms could look like BPD. I can say that I had no symptoms of BPD my entire life, and then having ptsd at age 50, I could easily compare and could falsely be diagnosed if it were not the fact that my T's knew me before and after and the behaviors and feelings do not come on at age 50.

The important thing is getting treatment. My daughter is doing very well in many areas of life. She is a manager at fast food now, a better parent, and spending time with her is enjoyable. She often catches herself when being unreasonable and steps back and cools off before reacting.

Many have pre notions of ptsd and other disorders as well that are not the most welcoming. There is so much that could be discussed on this topic...way to much to write here. I would suggest reading books of what it is like to live with someone with BPD and the difficulties are evident. It is not chosen...but can't blame others for not wanting to get involved. I feel the same with ptsd. It does not make me the most reliable friend.

 

[mamachick]

P.S. I don't think you need to be ashamed either, just think it is none of mosts business. I think others (don't become defensive) but do think they may back off in self protection. When in fact there are many undiagnosed BPD people. out there who are fun and entertaining to be around. When getting treatment and practicing skills, who needs to know you have this label at all. I have learned that with the stigma of having ptsd as well. None of anybody business, unless I am taking on a project to advocate for it. Only you can measure if strong enough to do that at any given time. There need not be shame in any mental illness.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

If this does not fit, maybe you have been misdiagnosed.

No, I haven't been misdiagnosed. Not one bit. But this is how generalized statements aren't true as it may been true for your daughter and those you have known but it isn't true for all as I belong to all and it isn't true for me.

She often catches herself when being unreasonable and steps back and cools off before reacting.

I do that as well but you also stated:

A great book "Walking on Eggshell" says a lot about living with a BPD person. It is impossible to have an equitable relationship with a BPD untreated.

So now I am confused. Are we speaking of treated or untreated? The OP in the thread isn't specific and most of your posts you are referencing untreated but now advise she is treated.

When untreated I was a tornado in the night. Treated and that isn't the case. My emotions are much more stable, explosions much less common if done at all, DBT being worked. I am like two different people.

However, I still qualify for the diagnosis.

My point is that we either have to stand up for mental illness and deal with others reactions, or keep it to ourselves.

Stand up for mental illness, all of them but mostly the ones that I have, is what I am doing. Here and everywhere else.

What I don't get is where this came from. And your last statement didn't say we need to stand up for or keep it to ourselves, it is stated to keep it to yourself and those you know well unless i wanted to take a hard stand for the cause. To me, that feels like taking a stand is being discouraged.

Just how it feels to me. What you meant may be a different story.

See, the issue with all of this is education. "Perception is reality", meaning that how we see something becomes what is real, reguardless if it is or not. Reguardless if it is true or not. Change perception and you change reality.

I will not keep BPD to myself. I will not excuse bad behavior but I will explain and educate. BPD has been literal hell for me. It has felt 100 times worse for me then it did for those around me (per their account). To always feel emotions at their most extreme isn't fun. To be sent into such an extreme tailspin over something so small isn't fun. To explode at the drop of a hat isn't fun. Then to cut because there is "something wrong with me" and because I made yet another person leave. I made yet another upset isn't fun. And to be seen as a bad person because I have BPD (something I cannot help and got because of trauma done to me. Much like PTSD) isn't right.

Stripped down, BPD is no different then PTSD. They are both mental disorders and I have them both due to trauma. PTSD causes a lot of symptoms that make me hard to deal with. Head on over to the supporter section to see that. So my question is, what makes them any different? Why the understanding for PTSD but not for BPD? Why is BPD the "monster of mental illness"? I have yet to get a satisifactory answer to that. One that I cannot counter anyway.

BPD is talked about, even earlier up on the thread, like ALL BPDers are to be avoided, like we are psychopaths or something, though many of us are treated and manage the symptoms well. Not to the point of being undiagnosable yet but stable and managing. But yet, once I say I have BPD, even though my symptoms are now being managed, people run for the hills. Why?

Anyway, I am writing for more food for thought and education.

When getting treatment and practicing skills, who needs to know you have this label at all.

Everyone as being so stigmatized, being silent, most especially if you are being treated and are actually great to be around, is adding to this "monster" stigma. I can be fun to be around but have BPD. The person I am around thinks (like earlier in the thread) "oh I avoid everyone with BPD because of XYZ" but you don't meet XYZ. So silence keeps the person in that mindframe when education doesn't. Education helps them to see "oh, maybe not everyone with BPD are like XYZ and should be avoided". Thus why there are so many BPD education videos on youtube.

I don't go around telling everyone and anyone but I don't make it a point to keep it to myself because it may make people uncomfortable. Perception is reality and so if I can change perception and then thus reality for one person, I will do so.