Why Can't Some Of Us Talk On The Forum?

[anthony]

healing is not a one size fits all nor should it be put across as such

I never said this, and it only further shows how people put their own bias, thoughts and misinterpretations into a discussion. If you think I'm saying that, from whatever you concluded, you should ask, not assume.

In actual fact, if you read my words across this site, I state exactly that healing is individual, what works for one does not for another, so forth, so forth. What I do not accept though, is complete nonsense. If you told me you got brainwashed by EFT, I would tell you the same thing, as EFT does not have the scope or influence as a treatment to obtain that outcome. Look at the science and evidence of the treatment, which is what I'm making my statements upon.

 

[shimmerz]

If you told me you got brainwashed by EFT, I would tell you the same thing, as EFT does not have the scope or influence as a treatment to obtain that outcome.

This is your truth and I accept that. It is not mine. I deserve that mine be accepted too without being told I have been brainwashed. It is condescending in my opinion.

 

[anthony]

It isn't my truth @shimmerz, and that is what you're confusing. It is factual, not opinion. There are treatments that simply DO NOT have a capacity for the end result such as brain washing. EMDR for example cannot brain wash you, however; EMDR does have the ability to retraumatise you by exposing you to too much of your existing memories at once. That is not, EMDR abused me, but factually, I became flooded and overwhelmed by memories and have now been retraumatised. Huge difference. CBT does not even have that scope. It could trigger you, but cannot flood you, as CBT is not a trauma therapy at its grass roots level, it is a counselling therapeutic technique, equivalent to person centred and a handful of others, all of which have no cognitive scope to flood or other such ability.

People need to stop confusing their emotional states with facts, and facts with opinion. If you do not understand these facts, then please go and research PTSD and therapies more so that you stop trying to state something is personal to me and my truth, which is nonsense. When facts change, I change. Evidence your counter arguments with facts.

If you want to read and understand all these facts, pickup a single book... the PTSD Handbook, second edition. That is a scientific cited text...

 

[shimmerz]

While I understand that this is something that you believe @anthony, my experience is that it works for me. I am not confused at all tbph. I am not truly concerned with studies etc. I am concerned with my own outcomes. EFT did me a tremendous amount of good. Those are my facts. Experiential. You can disagree all you like but my life is much better for the EFT work I did.

 

[anthony]

Where did I disagree with you that EFT worked for you @shimmerz? Why are you arguing something that I never said?

I said in relation to, IF someone told me they got brainwashed by EFT:

If you told me you got brainwashed by EFT, I would tell you the same thing, as EFT does not have the scope or influence as a treatment to obtain that outcome.

Where did I say anything about you or EFT not working for you?

What am I missing? EFT cannot brainwash a person, just as CBT can't either.

 

[joeylittle]

@shimmerz, read a little more carefully. @anthony isn't critiquing EFT. He said:

If you told me you got brainwashed by EFT, I would tell you the same thing, as EFT does not have the scope or influence as a treatment to obtain that outcome.

Meaning, if you related EFT to brainwashing (as @DeathRay did to CBT) he would also say that EFT by it's very nature cannot be applied to brainwashing. It doesn't do that.

Does that make sense?

Edit to add - cross posted.

 

[shimmerz]

Ahhhh! Got it. Thanks @joeylittle. So sorry @anthony if I am misinterpreted your words. I am not meaning to at all. I may just be a bit off kilter this afternoon. I am noticing that I am having a difficult time with words and this posting brings that issue clearly into light for me. I do appreciate your tenacity with having me understand.

 

[Friday]

I wonder if part of the miscommunication is simply due to differences of experiential style??

1) Types with overactive thinking that leads to emotional chaos and triggers. (Thoughts first, emotions second)
2) Emotional sensitive types, who easily get emotionally overwhelmed, and then thoughts are used to make sense of things. (Emotions first, thoughts second)

For the over-active thinkers, CBT and aggressive strategies to slow down and limit thinking can work quite well with controlling emotional state.

But for emotionally sensitive types, using aggression towards thoughts doesn't work as well. It can also be counter-productive because of a natural defensiveness that comes in the face of aggression, and focusing too much on thoughts creates additional distance from emotions, adding more confusion.

I've never done CBT in a formal setting. Spent the past several months seriously parsing what "worked" (and what didn't) the first time I was in a total tailspin.

During those years, I ran almost purely off emotion. If it feels right? Do it. Survival thinking. And it's as full of lies as depressive thinking.

- The single most effective thing in managing symptoms? Exposure therapy. Didn't know that's what it was at the time. Stumbled onto it by accident. Another thing parsed after the fact.

- What led me to be able to do exposure therapy? Turning my brain on. I had to drop out of React! and learn to think. Because Survival-Thinking is as full of lies as Depressive-Thinking. Lies, and bias, and just plain old stupidity.

If I hadn't changed my thinking, I'd still be f*cking everything that moved, being a violent hot & cold disaster, be completely incapable of mastering myself. Feelings are not reality. The heart needs tempering with the mind. What feels good is not always right, and what feels bad is not always wrong. Critical thinking and analysis. I would go so far as to say emotional people need it more than anyone.

I didn't do it all on my own; I was blessed with some ice cold motherf*ckers in my life who didn't brook nonsense. And total sweethearts. Both applied liberally. Often in the same person. And then cemented really strongly by needing to teach the same durn stuff to a child. Not just the 'retain 90% of what you teach' but in being able to rephrase & pattern it so an infant & toddler & small child can grok it. Take it into themselves. Strength. Joy.

In parsing what worked and what didn't? Learning to change the way I thought, all the hundreds of tips/ tricks? Are essentially the CBT handbook. Oh. Okay. Good to know. Sigh. One more wheel reinvented. Dammit. Well. Better than the alternative. But it also goes to show how much of psych is "common sense". (Also how uncommon, common sense is). How much good, healthy, people to pattern off of is simply flat out useful. I sometimes describe therapy / therapists as "That best friend, who knows exactly what you're going through, and the best ways to grok & sort it, that you didn't happen to meet by chance on the street 5 years before you needed their advice." This is why. The people I had in my life, transformed my life, by being able to kick this knowledge to me. I don't have these people, anymore. No one to tell me when I'm being biased, stupid, or doing things exactly right. No one to help me challenge my thinking, or wed my mind & heart when my instincts had divorced them, because that's what I needed to do to survive.

Do I think it would work for everybody? Nope. Nothing works for everybody.

There is a danger, however, in seeing how a thing can be applied badly in one case... And applying it universally to all other cases. Case in point : Just because abusers change the way you think about yourself? Doesn't mean changing the way you think about yourself is abusive. Or even wrong. That's one of those lies, faulty logic, where everything gets jumbled up. ((Like sick people take pills. Therefore, if I don't take pills? I won't get sick!)). Changing your thinking is exactly what needs to happen. Not staying trapped in how they changed it to begin with.

How thoughts are changed? What name the umbrella is given? Matters not. The thoughts need changing. Unless a person wants to believe & think the way they were taught, that is. Some people do.

 

[anthony]

To also clarify... when I say CBT, I mean CBT, not TF-CBT. CBT basic principles are correcting cognitive distortions: https://www.myptsd.com/threads/unhelpful-thinking-styles.13778/

Every single person with PTSD needs to know that, learn it, and make it part of them, IF you want to get beyond the negative automatic thoughts which is part of trauma and subsequently exacerbated by PTSD. It is the first thing you want to focus on, as that alone will carry through your trauma therapy and how you handle a hard session, it will get you out of your depressive moods, it will get you refocused during a panic / anxiety attack.

CBT is the grass roots, bare basic principles that every single PTSD sufferer should make part of who they are in order to manage PTSD and further life, period.

CBT has nothing to do with trauma, it is purely a technique used to identify irrational cognitive biases that negatively affect you, or your life, and change them to realistic thoughts, expectations and the reality of a given situation.

This isn't what works for one, isn't for another... this has nothing to do with trauma. Every PTSD sufferer needs to make the core CBT principles a part of themselves. How you do it is the only difference.

 

[Notsowild]

Lets see...manipulate:

• 2 a : to manage or utilize skillfully
  b : to control or play upon by artful,unfair, or insidious means especiallyto one's own advantage
• 3 : to change by artful or unfairmeans so as to serve one's purpose:

That's not me at all. I felt bad because I'm a nice person and @FridayJones thought I meant her. I would never intentionally hurt anyone. In her subsequent post she said she was overreacting. Why am I now am I such a bad person to everyone here.

Why did I post? Like I said in my first sentence there was another member who said that they were afraid to post also. I guess I wanted this forum to understand and show some compassion since we are all fighting the same battle. I wanted to fit in somewhere.

As for @joeylittle ... I privately pm'ed her.

My son really wanted to come on here and tell you all off. @anthony ...is that allowed? I am not this monster you are making me out to be.

 

[shimmerz]

Why am I now am I such a bad person to everyone here.

This is completely incorrect. You know that right? While you do have very good points (other people did state they felt the same way), I think it is really important to get your words straight. Not everyone said you were a bad person. As a matter of fact, very few said you were a bad person. Be very careful when you use the words everyone, nobody, etc. That was always an indicator to me that my thinking was off base and needed challenging.

@Valentino actually has a really great post in this thread about why it seems that some of us are more 'sensitive' than others. It is a good read.

 

[Friday]

@Notsowild ...

1. Why do you think you're a bad person? // Rephrase: Why do you think we think you're a bad person?

2. What makes you think you're being made out to be a monster? & Whats your definition of monster?

I ask... Because I don't see, or think either of those things. I see people trying to help a long standing and valuable member of the community who is very much cared for. I see you're hurt, and in pain, and afraid, and possibly angry. I also see a little bit of pride, in your son's protectiveness, but also a desire to keep things within the bounds of allowed. Pride+respect, or caution, or fear. Not sure which. But none of those things equate bad person or monster to me.