Why Can't Some Of Us Talk On The Forum?

[Pencil]

I believe that, because of the diversity of voices here, it actually all balances itself out. But you might not agree - and that's kind of the point...to talk about it.

This is just a random quote, really, to make it clear which post I'm referring to, although I like the sentiment expressed in here.

This is just to say that I really liked your whole post. I appreciate the calm, no-fuss, insightful way in which you make your point. And the point is that we won't ever all agree. What you don't say, but which is conveyed by your approach, attitude and tone, is that we can have different viewpoints and still have respect, decency and compassion. We don't need to be confrontational or argumentative.

One thing I learned from @Eleanor (one of the many things) is that 'You can't beat kids better'. Indeed. We don't berate, belittle, beat, shame etc. people into becoming better, or into healing, or into growing.

One last statement just to embarrass you: I like your style, generally, but especially as a moderator.

 

[sun seeker]

Now, do I sit there and watch? Or, do I encourage her to question her own thinking style?

Third option: you tune in to the fragile state she is in and question her thinking style very, very gently.

I'm reading this thread feeling like a person watching a soccer match, the ball going this way, then that way, trying to keep up with what is going on and stay in touch with my evolving opinion of it all. It's a fascinating process. I thank @tacit for the observation about different personality styles, which I think explains a lot. I would add to that a point I made, oh, around page 2 or 3 of this thread, about innate sensitivity. As I said then, some people are a lot more sensitive than others, and that is a personality trait that has a positive side as well as some challenges. This is not to be confused with the unhealthy self image people with abuse issues can get into. Some of us have both superimposed.

So as I watch the ball go this way and that, I find myself agreeing with differing points of view, and start to question how that can be. The answer: @tacit is right. I am so much in the kinesthetic category that sometimes the content of what is being said is secondary to how it makes me feel. It's all about perception. Someone can be handing me a hammer, as in @joeylittle's analogy, and it's a perfectly good hammer, but because they're shouting at me while they're handing it to me, it's the shouting I respond to and shrink away from the hammer. For some time after that I may reject all hammers, no matter the packaging.

I agree that this forum is wonderful practice for improving social skills and learning to work out disagreements respectfully. I keep seeing one disagreement repeat over and over in different guises, and that is when people who tend to express themselves more forcefully defend their right to do so, while more sensitive people shrink away and feel hurt. I wonder whether we could all take a step in our communication skills by recognizing different personality styles. So in @Rumors' analogy where someone is picking at a scab incessantly, she could take a step back and ask herself what she herself is looking for in responding to that. Is it more important to express herself forcefully because that is how she is feeling, or to tone down her response and express the same concern in a way the recipient is likely able to hear? In other words, can there be a common ground between these disparate personality styles?

At the same time, can a more sensitive person get their mind around using a bigger hammer when they know that approach works for someone?

I expect I'll get at least one response to this post reiterating that each of us is responsible for how we take what is said, so I'll anticipate that by clarifying that I am not talking about policy, I'm talking about an optional suggestion for anyone interested in using it to improve their communication skills, including myself. The language we use is certainly our choice, within reason. I'm just musing about how, when there is frustration when people want to help and the help isn't taken as intended, we could improve that situation. It's harder when you can't get a sense through body language, but still, the words people use give clues. Someone who uses feeling words more probably needs a gentler approach. Someone who writes about facts and figures probably doesn't. I remember how my daughter at a very young age used a very visually oriented language, saying for instance "that looks good" when hearing someone talk about a plan, a situation where most people would say "that sounds good". Turns out she is incredibly visually/spatially gifted.

I leave you with a question: when we want to communicate, what is more important, our right to express ourselves as we see fit, or the effectiveness of the communication, which is a synergistic reaction between two or more people's skills at giving and receiving? There's no one answer I am looking for. Just pondering.

 

[Rumors]

@sunseeker
I don't disagree with you. However, one thing jumps out at me, you can't assume inflection of tone on a post. What might seem very vanilla in content to me can give rise to someone else without it being an intent. I think before you can jump on the victim bandwagon, if you have a question about intent you should simply ask. Just my humble opinion. There have been many things said to me via email that I thought had a negative tone until I found out that was not the intent. Look, we are all adults here. Surely we don't feel like we need to ONLY say what the other person WANTS to hear??? What I want to hear and what I need to hear are drastically different. ;)

 

[sun seeker]

I think before you can jump on the victim bandwagon, if you have a question about intent you should simply ask.

Certainly. And can we extend that to saying that when we aren't sure what kind of response would be helpful, we should also ask?

Surely we don't feel like we need to ONLY say what the other person WANTS to hear???

Again, it comes down to the question of what is going to get the best result. Is it more important to say what we want to say the way we want to say it, or is it more important to say what is most likely to get the best result? It depends how we express what we think someone else needs to hear: if we say it in a way they can't hear it, and we know from their previous posts that they probably can't hear it, we are wasting time no matter how much we think they need to hear it.

Individual rights vs. harmony. Whole cultures are divided on this issue.

It's interesting that I have never yet seen anyone defend their right to express themselves gently. It's the people who tend to come across as judgemental who keep defending their right to express themselves however they see fit. Is there a correlation between more forceful personality types and individualism? Just wondering.

 

[Rumors]

@sun seeker Hmmm...not sure to your question. I think I can rest peacefully knowing what my intent was without judgement. ;) Thank you though for your non-judgemental .02 cents worth. :)

 

[sun seeker]

I'm going to take you up on your suggestion that when we aren't sure as to the intent of a post, we should ask. So... I'm unclear as to the intent of your post. Actually I'm unclear about all of it. You're not sure as to the answer to my question, or as to what my question is? I asked three different questions, so I'm not sure which you are answering (or not answering). Then, I'm not sure whether you are saying that since you know what your intent was, it doesn't bother you how anyone else takes what you say, or whether you are saying you think I am judging you but you don't want to argue about it. Finally, I'm not clear on whether you are actually thanking me or being sarcastic. In short, I am baffled. Want to clarify?

My intent is to answer the original question about why some people feel they can't talk in the forum, and propose some things to think about that might help solve the problem. I don't intend to hurt anyone's feelings, and I'm not clear on whether I have, but if so, I apologize and would like to know how to express myself better.

 

[Pencil]

Surely we don't feel like we need to ONLY say what the other person WANTS to hear???

No, not at all. But we need to say what they CAN hear, in a manner that will ensure they will WANT to hear. Otherwise we waste our breath, and they build up resistance. Tough love has to be dispensed very cautiously, timeously and sparingly. And a relationship of trust needs to exist between the dispenser and the recipient.

 

[Pencil]

And perhaps those who feel that they have been silenced should start dishing out tough love to those who silence. You see @Rumors, it works both ways. The pink team is as resistant as the purple team. I don't see the pink team actually listening, softening, shifting. The pot and the kettle are calling each other black.

 

[Ronin]

With all due respect, @Pencil, I don't think there's silencing happening on this forum; it's a bit far stretch. The general tendency of all threads is to address concerns, every single bit of them, and seek clarification until it's clear what the concerns are; I have a hard time seeing that as silencing, silencing environments don't really do that. They don't have people coming in with 'I'm sorry but what in my words & actions hurt you, I'll do better', and doing it as continually as people around here do.

So I'm... really perplexed by what gives that impression and to whom concretely.

 

[Tinyflame]

Could it be that the question is really (for anyone) as analogy, "what is the wound, how can a person get the thorn out, & then bandage, -> head to physio, (etc.)"? I think if we can find in ourselves the point of pain and blame etc, then it becomes possible to see things differently or work on things differently. I think most people want solutions & relief, but they're somewhat unique to each person. But the answer to the question that's at the heart of the issue may not be apparent if the question is not the right one (& then a person feels unheard or worse, hopeless).

The great thing to remember is virtually everyone means well. :tup:

I think it helps a lot to get info that helps lead to the profound question(s) & fears & beliefs lurking in the feelings.

 

[Rumors]

I'm going to take you up on your suggestion that when we aren't sure as to the intent of a post, we should ask. So... I'm unclear as to the intent of your post. Actually I'm unclear about all of it. You're not sure as to the answer to my question, or as to what my question is? I asked three different questions, so I'm not sure which you are answering (or not answering). Then, I'm not sure whether you are saying that since you know what your intent was, it doesn't bother you how anyone else takes what you say, or whether you are saying you think I am judging you but you don't want to argue about it. Finally, I'm not clear on whether you are actually thanking me or being sarcastic. In short, I am baffled. Want to clarify?

Thank you. You proved my point.

 

[sun seeker]

I am still utterly baffled. If anyone wants to explain to me what is going on, I'm all ears. Or eyes, anyway.