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Supporter Wife with ptsd, did, where do i belong...
- Post starter SamRuck
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D
Deleted member 8714
Oh yes, been through that numerous times. I even offered to leave him so he could get his needs met. He said no way!
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- #39
Sweetpea76
VIP Member
@SamRuck if you look around the supporter section you will find threads on sex and intimacy. We all love our partners, so there are a lot of us that go through "dry spells" or periods of celibacy when their mental health dictates.
You're wife has a treatment plan that is working. That's all well and good. People here have treatment plans and strategies in place that are working as well. They aren't going to be the same. Trauma issues are so varied and complex that there is no one size fits all. People aren't attacking you if they're disagreeing with you.
You're wife has a treatment plan that is working. That's all well and good. People here have treatment plans and strategies in place that are working as well. They aren't going to be the same. Trauma issues are so varied and complex that there is no one size fits all. People aren't attacking you if they're disagreeing with you.
As someone who has fully recovered from DID,I have a few things to say...
While it's commendable to devote your entire life to fixing and healing your wife,I'm wondering if you have really thought this through to all the 'what if's' should your wife indeed heal from this.
My husband didn't play therapist as you are doing but he did try to help me through the years the best he could.For many years.I had no clue I was DID,but he knew.He didn't specifically know what the actual diagnosis was but he did know about my different parts throughout our marriage.He knew they were coming out and taking over,he knew all the trauma I had been through because different parts told him,he even knew when to and how to call out child parts when needed,when I was really struggling or suicidal.He KNEW all along,right from the beginning.I was oblivious to any of it until after I "healed"(and by healing I mean no longer having a DID dx).
Since healing I have felt resentful towards him for not forcing,or at least encouraging me,to seek professional help.It bothers me that he handled things in the way HE thought was best.I feel he enabled me to stay ill while he feels he was helping me.He says everything he did for me,taking care of me,helping my young insiders,etc. was out of love for me.That's commendable,for sure,but to me,if he loved me so much he should have did what was best for me,which was getting me to seek professional help.I see alot of him in your posts.And although you may think and feel it's out of love,she may not see it that way if she does heal.You have already been at this for 10 years, what if it takes another 10 years before complete healing takes place?Do you expect her to just be grateful for taking 20 years of her life to do things YOUR way?Don't you think she will question,and wish,that you had helped her get into proper treatment?Do you think she would wonder what all those years would have been like if she maybe could have had a professional to work with and possibly heal sooner?
How do you think she may feel about your blog?It doesn't really matter what she thinks or feels right now,she iis ill.It might be a whole different ballgame once she heals.She may see it as self promotion,seeking notoriety and exploiting her.She may resent you for it.
She may also resent you for your methods.Maybe she will read your blog and feel you were so totally wrong in "whooing" her insiders to bring them out,dating them,calling one of them your "sexy girlfriend"(I read your blog btw).Maybe she will feel a different approach would have been better.Maybe she will think you were all wrong in your theories and your beliefs in how to heal her.Maybe she will feel if you had just got her professional help it all could have beeh different.
Maybe she will cringe when she thinks about all your interactions with her insiders.Whereas you think it's cute,loving and kind,she may feel demeaned,humiliated,repulsed that you bathed young insiders and treated it like it was a normal,healthy thing to do,even pleasurable.She may resent you for encouraging the dissociation,encouraging the different aspects of her to stay separate instead of treating her as one whole person.
She may resent you for playing therapist.She may feel it wasn't your place to do that,she may feel your marriage ended the day you decided to make her your client,your project.She may feel like there's no going back to being a married couple after that.How would one go back from that anyway?She may resent you for turning your marriage,your partnership into a pseudo client/therapist relationship,giving you authority and power over her.
What if after sacrifcing all these years for her she turns and walks out the door without ever looking back?What then?And you can't say she's ok with all of this because if she has DID she is very ill.And also very vulnerable.This may all backfire on you and not turn out at all how you are hoping and expecting.
What exactly ARE you expecting?You will heal her and you both will live happily ever after?
I don't know what her healing would be like,but for me,I remember everything now.I have all my memories plus I remember what my insiders said and did,who interacted with them,how my husband interacted with them,etc.And I am resentful that he chose to treat my young insiders as real young children.That was not helpful at all and only prolonged everything.
I did get professional help and that's where my healing took place.I healed by working on all the abuse and traumas,just the same as treatment I had for PTSD.It took quite a few years to accept that all the abuse happened and that it happened to ME and not 'someone else'.That was the key to my healing,acceptance.I'm not saying that's what your wife needs in order to heal,I'm just saying what if you're wrong about your theories and methods?What if she never heals?Are you willing to spend the rest of your life trying?
Also,just as a FYI,my DID was easier to heal than my PTSD.I still have PTSD and assume I always will.It's a different beast than DID,and from personal experience,harder to deal with.As I said,DID was about acceptance.Once I accepted that it all happened,to me,the need to dissociate and keep it all from myself was no longer necessary.And I then realized none of those insiders were truly insiders,they weren't truly different people inside of me,it was all just a way to cope as a child that I held on to.
I suggest you think ahead,far ahead,about what her healing would actually mean and be to you.If you truly love the woman,let the professionals help her and you just maintain your role as her husband,her partner.You have said yourself you're "just a husband",so you might want to think long and hard about trying to be her savior.She needs you as a husband as she heals with a professional,you really can't have it both ways.
I really do commend you for trying all these years,but what is it you are really wanting out of all of this?You don't have to answer that.You might want to think long and hard about all of it.Is it really just for your wife to be healed?Is she really your number one priority?I'm sorry but just from what you have written here and also from your blog it seems to me there's something in it for you.There's something you are wanting to gain from all of this,and you,and only you know what that is,I can only guess.
While it's commendable to devote your entire life to fixing and healing your wife,I'm wondering if you have really thought this through to all the 'what if's' should your wife indeed heal from this.
My husband didn't play therapist as you are doing but he did try to help me through the years the best he could.For many years.I had no clue I was DID,but he knew.He didn't specifically know what the actual diagnosis was but he did know about my different parts throughout our marriage.He knew they were coming out and taking over,he knew all the trauma I had been through because different parts told him,he even knew when to and how to call out child parts when needed,when I was really struggling or suicidal.He KNEW all along,right from the beginning.I was oblivious to any of it until after I "healed"(and by healing I mean no longer having a DID dx).
Since healing I have felt resentful towards him for not forcing,or at least encouraging me,to seek professional help.It bothers me that he handled things in the way HE thought was best.I feel he enabled me to stay ill while he feels he was helping me.He says everything he did for me,taking care of me,helping my young insiders,etc. was out of love for me.That's commendable,for sure,but to me,if he loved me so much he should have did what was best for me,which was getting me to seek professional help.I see alot of him in your posts.And although you may think and feel it's out of love,she may not see it that way if she does heal.You have already been at this for 10 years, what if it takes another 10 years before complete healing takes place?Do you expect her to just be grateful for taking 20 years of her life to do things YOUR way?Don't you think she will question,and wish,that you had helped her get into proper treatment?Do you think she would wonder what all those years would have been like if she maybe could have had a professional to work with and possibly heal sooner?
How do you think she may feel about your blog?It doesn't really matter what she thinks or feels right now,she iis ill.It might be a whole different ballgame once she heals.She may see it as self promotion,seeking notoriety and exploiting her.She may resent you for it.
She may also resent you for your methods.Maybe she will read your blog and feel you were so totally wrong in "whooing" her insiders to bring them out,dating them,calling one of them your "sexy girlfriend"(I read your blog btw).Maybe she will feel a different approach would have been better.Maybe she will think you were all wrong in your theories and your beliefs in how to heal her.Maybe she will feel if you had just got her professional help it all could have beeh different.
Maybe she will cringe when she thinks about all your interactions with her insiders.Whereas you think it's cute,loving and kind,she may feel demeaned,humiliated,repulsed that you bathed young insiders and treated it like it was a normal,healthy thing to do,even pleasurable.She may resent you for encouraging the dissociation,encouraging the different aspects of her to stay separate instead of treating her as one whole person.
She may resent you for playing therapist.She may feel it wasn't your place to do that,she may feel your marriage ended the day you decided to make her your client,your project.She may feel like there's no going back to being a married couple after that.How would one go back from that anyway?She may resent you for turning your marriage,your partnership into a pseudo client/therapist relationship,giving you authority and power over her.
What if after sacrifcing all these years for her she turns and walks out the door without ever looking back?What then?And you can't say she's ok with all of this because if she has DID she is very ill.And also very vulnerable.This may all backfire on you and not turn out at all how you are hoping and expecting.
What exactly ARE you expecting?You will heal her and you both will live happily ever after?
I don't know what her healing would be like,but for me,I remember everything now.I have all my memories plus I remember what my insiders said and did,who interacted with them,how my husband interacted with them,etc.And I am resentful that he chose to treat my young insiders as real young children.That was not helpful at all and only prolonged everything.
I did get professional help and that's where my healing took place.I healed by working on all the abuse and traumas,just the same as treatment I had for PTSD.It took quite a few years to accept that all the abuse happened and that it happened to ME and not 'someone else'.That was the key to my healing,acceptance.I'm not saying that's what your wife needs in order to heal,I'm just saying what if you're wrong about your theories and methods?What if she never heals?Are you willing to spend the rest of your life trying?
Also,just as a FYI,my DID was easier to heal than my PTSD.I still have PTSD and assume I always will.It's a different beast than DID,and from personal experience,harder to deal with.As I said,DID was about acceptance.Once I accepted that it all happened,to me,the need to dissociate and keep it all from myself was no longer necessary.And I then realized none of those insiders were truly insiders,they weren't truly different people inside of me,it was all just a way to cope as a child that I held on to.
I suggest you think ahead,far ahead,about what her healing would actually mean and be to you.If you truly love the woman,let the professionals help her and you just maintain your role as her husband,her partner.You have said yourself you're "just a husband",so you might want to think long and hard about trying to be her savior.She needs you as a husband as she heals with a professional,you really can't have it both ways.
I really do commend you for trying all these years,but what is it you are really wanting out of all of this?You don't have to answer that.You might want to think long and hard about all of it.Is it really just for your wife to be healed?Is she really your number one priority?I'm sorry but just from what you have written here and also from your blog it seems to me there's something in it for you.There's something you are wanting to gain from all of this,and you,and only you know what that is,I can only guess.
- Post starter
- #41
If you had really read my blog, you would know that she and I are in this together. I don't ever do anything with one girl 'secretly.' That's NOT the way to have a marriage. I'm sorry you didn't like what your husband did, but my wife, all my girls, regularly tell me I am the most healing thing in their life. And even if they don't understand some of the theory behind how I help them, they certainly enjoy the practice of it because I'm am NOT their therapist in any traditional kind of way. I simply weave a life together with them that pulls and attracts all 8 of the girls closer to me and closer to each other.
Sam
I did really read your blog.And yes,I know you are in this together.But she has DID,she is very mentally ill and vulnerable.I guess I would feel different if these past ten years had been spent working with a specialist and she has now decided to let you try to heal her because it wasn't helping or something.I don't understand why you feel you are even remotely qualified to heal her.DID is a pretty serious,major illness and you are doing home treatment.Would you be doing the same if she had schizophrenia or cancer?What makes you think and feel that this specific disorder deserves home treatment,home remedies rather than professional treatment?
I didn't say you were doing anything with the insiders in "secret".Unless she has complete co-consciousness,she doesn't even know when the others are out or what they are doing.And even if she does,what is and isn't ok right now while she's ill could change 100% once she heals.The things I said were about if full healing does happen.But now that I read your reply I see that you're not going for full recovery anyway,you just want to "weave a life together with them that pulls and attracts all 8 of the girls closer to me and closer to each other".That bothers me,why not take her to a specialist for the opportunity for complete recovery?And of course she's going to say you are the most healing thing in her life when she hasn't yet had the opportunity to see a specialist to compare it to.
It sounds like a very codependent relationship and no different than a person spending their life trying to change and fix an alcoholic spouse.They sacrifice their own life and lose who they are in the process.They will do anything to get that person to be who and how they wish they would be,out of love for them.But they end up being sick themselves and not able to see beyond it.I hope you are getting help for yourself during this because it sure sounds like you need it.You could one day become resentful yourself,you could one day be so burnt out that you walk out the door.You can't say you won't,you don't know what the future may bring.
But yeah,good luck with all of this.I hope one day your wife decides to seek a specialist,I believe it would be best for both of you.
I didn't say you were doing anything with the insiders in "secret".Unless she has complete co-consciousness,she doesn't even know when the others are out or what they are doing.And even if she does,what is and isn't ok right now while she's ill could change 100% once she heals.The things I said were about if full healing does happen.But now that I read your reply I see that you're not going for full recovery anyway,you just want to "weave a life together with them that pulls and attracts all 8 of the girls closer to me and closer to each other".That bothers me,why not take her to a specialist for the opportunity for complete recovery?And of course she's going to say you are the most healing thing in her life when she hasn't yet had the opportunity to see a specialist to compare it to.
It sounds like a very codependent relationship and no different than a person spending their life trying to change and fix an alcoholic spouse.They sacrifice their own life and lose who they are in the process.They will do anything to get that person to be who and how they wish they would be,out of love for them.But they end up being sick themselves and not able to see beyond it.I hope you are getting help for yourself during this because it sure sounds like you need it.You could one day become resentful yourself,you could one day be so burnt out that you walk out the door.You can't say you won't,you don't know what the future may bring.
But yeah,good luck with all of this.I hope one day your wife decides to seek a specialist,I believe it would be best for both of you.
- Post starter
- #43
I guess that's the difference between me and you. I don't think my wife is 'mentally ill and vulnerable'. I have always treated her as my equal with full agency. She is the most beautiful and intelligent person I know, especially as she has healed and begun to connect deeply to the other girls. I am sorry that your experience makes you unable to appreciate the way we are doing things.
I'm sure I won't change your mind, but I have read extensively of the 'expert' literature. It's not out of reach for anyone who cares to see what they think...and if you read it, critically, you would see they really don't know what they are doing. They are doing the best they can't, but with limited access. I have 100% access to my wife's system, and what she and I have accomplished together is beyond anything ISSTD even believes is possible. So, if you are happy with your healing, I'm truly am glad for you and your husband. But my wife and I wanted a lot more than any of the 'specialists' could offer us.
Ah, the codependent charge in our culture of obsessive independence. I'm sorry, but I simply don't accept our culture's obsession with independence. She and I are interdependent, as we ought to be.
Sam
I meant to say the experts are doing the best they 'can' not can't
Last edited by a moderator:
This will be my last response to this since it's obvious to me you are set in your ways and refuse to see things differently.You seem to have joined this site to pat yourself on the back and convince others they can heal their DID loved ones if they do what you are doing.
You may not think of your wife as mentally ill or vulnerable,but she is.If she has DID,she IS mentally ill,there's no getting around that fact.Maybe you not being able to think in that way is why you believe home treatment is ok.
I won't debate whether the experts know what they are doing or not.I have fully recovered so therefore they obviously do,not all of them of course,but some do.And since it's not really complete recovery or full healing you are aiming for and instead have your own agenda,your own wishes for your wife,there's no point in discussing it,is there?
As I said before,good luck with all of this.
You may not think of your wife as mentally ill or vulnerable,but she is.If she has DID,she IS mentally ill,there's no getting around that fact.Maybe you not being able to think in that way is why you believe home treatment is ok.
I won't debate whether the experts know what they are doing or not.I have fully recovered so therefore they obviously do,not all of them of course,but some do.And since it's not really complete recovery or full healing you are aiming for and instead have your own agenda,your own wishes for your wife,there's no point in discussing it,is there?
As I said before,good luck with all of this.
I'm glad you've found this site @SamRuck. Your insight is greatly appreciated. I'm a little hesitant to chime in here because you haven't reacted too well to challenging replies. I have a lot of compassion for your defensiveness. Dealing with a mentally ill partner can be such a mind-bender, finding something that works is an epic win. To then have people challenge those methods can be frightening. It can make us supporters feel incredibly powerless, unheard, and unseen.
Just a side-note: I think your approach may be frightening to some people as they are dealing with partners who can be emotionally and physically abusive. That's a no-joke reality. A lot of people come on here all too vulnerable to find more excuses to stay with their out-of-control partners. Especially younger people, less experienced in PTSD are vulnerable to believing that if they try a little harder, swallow a little more abuse, they will eventually heal their partner. It's discussions about boundaries and codependency that opens their eyes to their reality. I understand your defensiveness, but also keep in mind that the arguments with which some have "challenged" your ideas have also saved lot of people's mental and sometimes physical health.
This could also be a reason why you find traditional therapeutic approaches lacking. Psychiatry and psychology deal in statistics just as any other curative science. That a therapist would not agree with some of what you're saying is not because your experience is to be invalidated, but because they have dealt and worked with hundreds of other people for whom these approaches did not work, acutely or in the long run.
I can say that my SO would but evaporate in anger if I didn't respect his wishes of space and insisted on being close to him when he's expressly asked me to leave him alone. He's a proud man and if he's going to deepen his attachment and feel safe with me, it will have to be out of his own volition.
I'm sure I could create an environment in which he could feel MORE safe and MORE attached, but I deeply believe those circumstances would be built on a false foundation. In my and his eyes, what he needs to recognize is that he is safe IN GENERAL, because he is who he is and has learned what he's learned, not because I have managed to create an environment that doesn't heighten his fears. Though I can adjust to his needs, I'm a human being and I will frighten him, challenge him, and sometimes inadvertently hurt him. That is life and the real world. To me, it's a more integrative approach to let him live in that reality and learn to deal and heal with and despite of it. That way he can be proud of his own healing and build his identity on that, rather than merely be grateful he found person who did not confront him with his dysfunction.
That's MY experience with MY sufferer. I do not claim to have found the best approach in general. It's just what I've found works best for him and me both.
Some would mention the word codependency here, other would speak about boundaries. I see it a little more broadly than that. If we don't take on the role of helper and healer, relationships like ours are a wildly uncertain and scary place to live in--something we all like to avoid. In that sense, keeping boundaries and not "helping" as such is hell of a lot scarier than getting involved. It's finding the balance between support and surrender, giving up control, and loving without attachment--it's pure and utter uncertainty. But, if we're to get a little spiritual here, it's the place where most fruitful life lessons are learned...
At the end of the day, living within this uncertainty and understanding our inherent lack of control over other peoples health and healing is the most efficient schooling in non-attachment I can think of. In that sense, not "getting" my partner to heal is not so much an active step against codependency, but a step toward healing my OWN attachment problems (holding on despite myself, needing to be needed, needing to control other people's behavior, etc.,) which broadens my growth beyond this relationship. You may call this an outgrowth of our independence obsessed culture, I call it growing up.
Just a side-note: I think your approach may be frightening to some people as they are dealing with partners who can be emotionally and physically abusive. That's a no-joke reality. A lot of people come on here all too vulnerable to find more excuses to stay with their out-of-control partners. Especially younger people, less experienced in PTSD are vulnerable to believing that if they try a little harder, swallow a little more abuse, they will eventually heal their partner. It's discussions about boundaries and codependency that opens their eyes to their reality. I understand your defensiveness, but also keep in mind that the arguments with which some have "challenged" your ideas have also saved lot of people's mental and sometimes physical health.
From what I've read in your replies, I'm not sure I agree. I think many of us, with or without having read the literature (or even had professional training *cough*), employ many of the strategies you speak of. I think the "gulf" you speak of is not so much in the methods we use, it's in the people we are partnered with. I said somewhere else on this site that your approach is envy-inducing. Not so much because of the methods you employ, but because your spouse seems to be cooperative in a way that has allowed you to grow closer throughout this experience. You're lucky. No matter how rigidly we applied attachment theory and other useful tools, many of us supporters would get nowhere with our sufferers simply because they are wired quite differently than your wife.
This could also be a reason why you find traditional therapeutic approaches lacking. Psychiatry and psychology deal in statistics just as any other curative science. That a therapist would not agree with some of what you're saying is not because your experience is to be invalidated, but because they have dealt and worked with hundreds of other people for whom these approaches did not work, acutely or in the long run.
I can say that my SO would but evaporate in anger if I didn't respect his wishes of space and insisted on being close to him when he's expressly asked me to leave him alone. He's a proud man and if he's going to deepen his attachment and feel safe with me, it will have to be out of his own volition.
I'm sure I could create an environment in which he could feel MORE safe and MORE attached, but I deeply believe those circumstances would be built on a false foundation. In my and his eyes, what he needs to recognize is that he is safe IN GENERAL, because he is who he is and has learned what he's learned, not because I have managed to create an environment that doesn't heighten his fears. Though I can adjust to his needs, I'm a human being and I will frighten him, challenge him, and sometimes inadvertently hurt him. That is life and the real world. To me, it's a more integrative approach to let him live in that reality and learn to deal and heal with and despite of it. That way he can be proud of his own healing and build his identity on that, rather than merely be grateful he found person who did not confront him with his dysfunction.
That's MY experience with MY sufferer. I do not claim to have found the best approach in general. It's just what I've found works best for him and me both.
I think it's phrases like these that raise people's alarm bells on here. For our own emotional and psychological safety, most of us are in the business of realizing and understanding that we can't "get to heal" our partners no matter how much we'd like to.
Some would mention the word codependency here, other would speak about boundaries. I see it a little more broadly than that. If we don't take on the role of helper and healer, relationships like ours are a wildly uncertain and scary place to live in--something we all like to avoid. In that sense, keeping boundaries and not "helping" as such is hell of a lot scarier than getting involved. It's finding the balance between support and surrender, giving up control, and loving without attachment--it's pure and utter uncertainty. But, if we're to get a little spiritual here, it's the place where most fruitful life lessons are learned...
At the end of the day, living within this uncertainty and understanding our inherent lack of control over other peoples health and healing is the most efficient schooling in non-attachment I can think of. In that sense, not "getting" my partner to heal is not so much an active step against codependency, but a step toward healing my OWN attachment problems (holding on despite myself, needing to be needed, needing to control other people's behavior, etc.,) which broadens my growth beyond this relationship. You may call this an outgrowth of our independence obsessed culture, I call it growing up.
Also,I forgot to mention that no where in your blog did I read that your wife has an official diagnosis of DID.I did read where she 'thought' she may have it,read that it was 'suggested',but no official dx by a professional.
There's a huge difference in an official dx by a professional and a self dx or a husbands dx.You are claiming to be healing DID,promoting home treatment,advising others and yet you are not even positive it's what she has.It could possibly be something else,having insiders doesn't automatically equal DID.
You are treating your wife for something she may or may not have.That's pretty dangerous and can really harm her mentally.She at least deserves to see a professional for a valid diagnosis.Imagine how she,or even you,would feel if it's a different illness altogether(or maybe that's why you aren't urging her to seek professional help,you don't want to take a chance on being wrong after all this "work" you have invested in her and your blog?)
There's a huge difference in an official dx by a professional and a self dx or a husbands dx.You are claiming to be healing DID,promoting home treatment,advising others and yet you are not even positive it's what she has.It could possibly be something else,having insiders doesn't automatically equal DID.
You are treating your wife for something she may or may not have.That's pretty dangerous and can really harm her mentally.She at least deserves to see a professional for a valid diagnosis.Imagine how she,or even you,would feel if it's a different illness altogether(or maybe that's why you aren't urging her to seek professional help,you don't want to take a chance on being wrong after all this "work" you have invested in her and your blog?)
Justmehere
Sponsor
Has a *licensed* mental health care professional ever evaluated and diagnosed your wife?
Rose White
VIP Member
I changed my mind, no I don’t. I feel a little bit more aware of codependency and boundaries now. I’m newly diagnosed PTSD so mistakes abound, but I feel like people stronger and wiser than me on this forum recognized this situation as unhealthy and I see it now. I am currently in a codependent relationship of a different nature, but the similarity is that my spouse believes that if I would just follow his lead I would be okay and that is suffocating.
@Hojay, well said! I would love to be married to an adult mind and not a child mind. I am growing up myself right now and weighing how long I will wait around to see if my partner will do the same. So much uncertainty! But that is such an important aspect of healing because it is your own decisions and behaviors in spite of that uncertainty that become your identity.
Whether or not our culture is obsessed with independence is a poor excuse to control someone. (And growing up is healthy independence!). No one can heal me, only I can heal myself. I can ask others for assistance, but I have to do the work. If I don’t do the work, it doesn’t matter what the assistants do, it won’t get through. And just because the wife may or may not see this and has grown over the decades doesn’t prove anything. People can be captives their whole life, and arguably many are.
I’m grateful to be able to see more examples of codependent people and relationships. I believe everyone has the potential to change but I don’t have to wait around for them to. Grateful to be able to have these realizations in a safe place.
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