Wonder If This Officer Will Get The Sack

[Sleeping Dragon]

Plenty has been said, and appropirately by all of you. So, I'll keep mine short.

I went through months of CPT treatment at the local VA. It was gut wrenching, and took me from screaming like a maniac to crying like a baby. YA CAN'T FAKE THAT KIND OF EMOTIONAL BREAKDOWN.

I, like so many others, developed COMPLETELY NORMAL REACTIONS to combat that changed me in ways that can not be reversed. It's like the doctor hitting your knee with the little hammer. YOUR LEG IS GONNA MOVE!!!!!!!!!!!

SORRY MAJOR LANE. THERE'S NO CURE FOR POST TRAUMATIC STRESS.

SD

 

[anthony]

I have to agree with him, that there are a lot of soldiers returning with adjustment disorder being misdiagnosed as PTSD.

Having PTSD, I can clearly see I had an adjustment disorder returning from several tours, which I fully recovered and went onto further tours, yet still had some issues integrating back into society. Whilst one tour specifically gave me PTSD, it was delayed onset which I suffered what would have been diagnosed an adjustment disorder on immediate return, being close to six months of rampage behaviour, though I still could work and function at work. It was outside work and relationships I went nuts with.

PTSD itself didn't bit me on the arse until near a year later after my final deployment, where it came out of the blue and took me out. It is normal to have adjustment on returning to society from a deployment. The symptoms are close to identical, albeit you likely have an adjustment disorder and will come good within six months. Those who don't come good within that six month window are the minority who would have PTSD, along with those who suddenly develop the symptoms with delayed onset without a specific stressor triggering it.

IMHO, the shrink is correct in this assessment.

 

[JarHed]

As always, my opinions here.

How ever you call or categorize what the mental effects of combat are, the affects are real.

I do believe that if a program were instituted to, and I'm not sure what you might call it, say 'deprogramming' or some type of individual or group therapy for returning combat vets it would help. It would reduce, in some cases, the severity and longevity of the effects of those experiences. It would also be a way to assess those that would need greater or continued care. That would be a good idea which would help many.

The problem with it would be at least from what I'll discuss here, twofold. First, the funding. Where would the money come from to do this. That's always part of the problem. And two, the military both here and abroad it would seem still has a negative attitude towards soldiers coming forward with these problems. The stigma still exists. It's the reason that so many vets that have these conditions will never go to their VA's or seek help in any way. The time may come when that may change but that day isn't here yet, not even close.

Jar

 

[Chin Strapped]

Fakers are the root of all evil. Most ptsd cases pop up later anyway I guess. It either slaps you in the face a year later or you're to busy getting leathered etc, to even be known to the system!

 

[preston falls]

I must be missing something that’s obvious to this shrink, Anthony.

Tell me if I am wrong, but the shrink’s assessment goes something like this: There’s a difference between PTSD and adjustment disorder, but it’s hard to see. That’s the problem. Because shrinks who know the difference between the two can just readjust the majority of patients and within six months everybody’s happy and cured. So, somehow we need to learn how to squeeze these adjustment guys (and fakers) out of the PTSD category because they’re overwhelming the system. That would allow real combat stress patients to be treated in a more efficient and cost-effective way.

That sounds logical to me, but only if two things can happen. First, we need to be sure that a soldier’s adjustment problem isn’t just an early stage of PTSD, which seems to be hard. And second, the thousands of qualified and experienced therapists now working with the emotionally wounded soldiers need to be reprogrammed because, according to this shrink, they’re all doing it wrong.

I’m not going to argue that there aren’t fakers and soldiers with adjustment problems and not PTSD. But this shrink and people who agree with him seem to be fine with adopting some kind of exclusionary policy that can only be arbitrary and subjective. In the US, our justice system requires that an accused man is always innocent until proven guilty. The principle guiding this policy rests on the belief that we should set a hundred guilty men free before we condemn one innocent man. The same burden of proof should guide the military in handing PTSD.

If the system is overburdened, the answer should not be to exclude potential sufferers of PTSD. The soldiers aren’t the ones who cause PTSD. The military does that. The politicians do that. It’s their problem and they need to fix it by finding solutions other than war. And when they send soldiers into combat who get wounded, they need to fix them, not exclude them.

This shrink is part of the problem, not the solution. PTSD is not some exclusive club. Anybody with it can join.

 

[JarHed]

Fakers and posers are are a despicable side of human nature. The truly sad part is that it makes it a great deal harder for those of us that have a genuine problem and seek treatment for that.

 

[Jimmy1]

Well the system over here has gone to shit. Most veterans who claim for PTSD get an instant knock-back on their claim, they might get an approval for any other injury that there is proof for, but generally, PTSD is a no go. This has a two fold result in my opinion. 1. It may get rid of the fakers because they can't be stuffed finding extra proof and going to numerous appointments, but no 2 is screwed. The veterans who may be within the six month window still need the help and may be in dire straits, yet they have to go through an appeal process not thinking straight. I had an advocate looking out for me and was lucky, but I still f*cked it up. The VA sent me a single piece of paper to sign after my discharge went through, this would have provided me with a benefits card and a disability payment, but I was too zoned out to know and just placed it in file 13. I had no money, I could not work even if I tried and ended up losing everything, too many bills. The day they came and took my car I finally turned on my phone again and rang my advocate. Lucky he was sent a duplicate of everything I had and got it rolling. Two weeks later I had a place to stay and could replace some things.

The DSM IV said that if you had certain symptoms and it was within 30 days it was classed as an anxiety disorder or depressive episode. Does anyone know if it has changed in the DSM V???

PTSD is not some exclusive club. Anybody with it can join.

This is the problem Preston. Over here apart from losing limbs or going blind, PTSD attracts the most benefits and pensions, so people who want an easy out go for it. In fact it's like society in general. Look at all the welfare frauds that get caught every year, why should PTSD be any different. The shame is, that the people that need it the most can't get it and the same goes for the rating for PTSD.

Veterans return, have trouble adjusting to society and straight away they think it may be PTSD, or their partners Google their symptoms and tell them, when it's perfectly normal. War changes everyone, I don't think you can name one single person who has seen combat that has not been changed. Over here most people return from active service and go straight on leave for six or eight weeks, they are cashed up and go out and blow off steam or try and mend families. I reckon all veterans should go to a holding camp for 30 days whether it be in barracks or not. They could have local leave every now and then and should be watched by psychs. Symptoms will show within the first 30 days and if their partners are contacted to find out how they are coping at home, we could save quite a few.

But it all comes down to the $$$$. And we all know that our governments won't spend a cent.

And for all you new guys, if you hang around this forum long enough you will see all types yourself.

You will get trolls who want to disrupt our group.
You will get kids pretending to be veterans hoping to get gory stories.
You will get journalists or students studying PTSD who want answers.
And you will get the partners/spouses wanting help.

You will know pretty soon as something is just not right with what they are saying. Some get through though but are found out eventually.

The one thing you will notice with this site is that the members don't normally talk about their traumas. Some might in general terms or in their very first post to get something off their chests, but most don't. That's private.

Unfortunately, sometimes you will get legit veterans that desperately need help, but they are too far gone to be on this site. You will also get the ones that sign up and just sit in the background soaking it all in.

I think we have a great diverse group and between us all we can help nearly anyone that joins.

 

[JarHed]

Good words and advice Jimmy.

 

[Chin Strapped]

Does the disappearing ghost shit story count As trauma Jimmy?

Still makes me laugh.

I have enjoyed this thread.

 

[preston falls]

Jimmy--

Thanks for not just telling me to f*ck off. Things are lousy there, worse than here, and you have to deal with a different set of realities. And realities always make it hard to do the best thing when you have a problem.

I could just say this Major Long that we're all talking about is right because he's talking about a problem specific to Australia, and maybe I should, because it's really none of my business. But I won't. War is everybody's business. And a practical, realistic solution that's based on what's wrong in one country might be adopted by other countries as well. So if that solution is flawed, all of us should take notice.

I can't accept the excuse that's it's too expensive. We spend millions of dollars a day on our military solutions--and it's wasted. Take a look at the wars America has fought in the last fifty years and tell me any of them were worth the cost or the lives damaged or lost. It's a country's moral obligation to take care of its wounded. I'll keep quiet now, because I don't know what more needs to be said.

falls

 

[anthony]

Tell me if I am wrong, but the shrink’s assessment goes something like this: There’s a difference between PTSD and adjustment disorder, but it’s hard to see.

Nope, that is about spot on. The problem is that a book exists that specifies if you endure a minimum of x symptoms for more than one month, you can be diagnosed with PTSD. The same book also says that Adjustment Disorder could be the diagnosis IF the symptoms are not present longer than six months. You can read the vague diagnosis for adjustment disorder at Link Removed which is the current DSM V diagnosis.

It doesn't get specific with the symptoms that PTSD does, however; it lists all the behavioural, anxiety and depression that presents in PTSD, especially broadly covering mood changes.

It is factual that nearly all soldiers will need a period of adjustment on return from operational deployments. That period on return happens within 3 months of redeployment, and no longer than six months, firmly sits all the symptoms into adjustment disorder and not PTSD, even though technically you could also diagnose PTSD.

Saying that, a PTSD diagnosis is supposed to also be assessed over a period of 6+ sessions before being made. Now take that information and put it into reality of seeing a psychologist / psychiatrist, and you would be lucky to get 6 sessions with them in 6 - 8 weeks. If by the end of that period they stated you have PTSD, then chances are you may have, though if you also suddenly recover and get back into life within 6 months of return, you didn't have PTSD and you had an adjustment disorder.

Diagnoses have a lot of overlapping symptoms, and physicians can use them accordingly as they choose, though it doesn't make their diagnosis correct. PTSD is of a severity that it is recommended an assessment period of 6+ sessions be had to correctly ascertain whether PTSD is the culprit or not, and not just screen a person in one session and because they're a veteran, classify them as having PTSD.

Most PTSD is delayed onset, because nearly everyone will have a period of adjustment that requires six months to ascertain after returning from operations. Anything diagnosed before that six month period on immediate return, should only be adjustment disorder. If it persists beyond the six months, or becomes so severe and introduces things like psychotic behaviour and such, can easily be upgraded to PTSD.

PTSD is becoming far to quickly diagnosed as the issue when it comes to enduring a trauma. This isn't just with veterans, and extends to all trauma. Therapists, counsellors, doctors, nurses and such, are slapping post-traumatic stress as a term onto anyway enduring symptoms after an event, and people confuse that with PTSD. They aren't the same. Post-Traumatic Stress is adjustment disorder, acute stress disorder and normal symptoms of anxiety, depression or mood, which are expected after a traumatic event. They do not equate to a neurological disorder of the brain due to severe traumatic exposure, which is what PTSD is.

 

[Sleeping Dragon]

I honestly appreciate input from many of you who have obviously done your home work. Those who put fact ahead of emotion have a better chance at finding the truth.

However, as we quantify, qualify, measure and evaluate we sometimes miss what experience teaches best. I recognize your pain, anger, frustration, depression and loss of social skills because I feel the same things. Many of those things don't fit standard measurements because they come and go. Today's sunny outlook can be tomorrow's night in jail.

The only thing the "experts" have done that you can truly hang your hat on is admit that PTS (I still hate the D) exists, and is a significant problem. Coping with that problem effectively is gonna take some time. Til then I'll hang out with all of you cause this place is real.

SD