How do you be honest and assertive and not manipulative?

[ms spock]

And you are allowed to say what you feel and what you want without being punished for actually being alive and taking up space.

I realised recently that my communication skills are pretty poor in several areas. I have been improving though. I have improved a lot in this area.

 

[ms spock]

<grumble> This is really hard. I find it really hard. I feel like I have no right to say no. I get walked on. I feel resentful, but as I don't seem to communicate in a way that people understand. Anyway I want to insert a grumble.</grumble>

 

[Gs172003]

<grumble> This is really hard. I find it really hard. I feel like I have no right to say no. I get walk...

I'm sorry

 

[scout86]

There might be more to that than how you say 'no'. People may expect 'yes'. In a sense, if they've known you awhile, you may have trained them to expect yes. And, they might be the kind of people who always expect 'yes'. I've noticed people like that seen to gravitate to me, probably because they've found it works for them. It's hard to retrain them, but it can be done. With some people, it turns out you need to be very blunt. To the point that it's scary because it feels rude. All of this is REALLY hard to balance! 'Practice makes perfect'? Hang in there!

 

[VioletButterfly]

@Ms Spock - Just wondering, if it isn't essential to have a good relationship with ourselves first, based upon self-knowledge, truth, acceptance and loyalty. Can we truly have an "authentic" relationship with others without this foundation? Is it healthy for us to trust others over ourselves? (ummmm, nope!) How can we trust others if we don't trust ourselves? How can we tell what is healthy and what is not? Have we done a thorough evaluation of ourselves to determine what our needs and boundaries are? What our red flags are? What our deal-breakers are? I don't know, maybe just a lot of questions, but for me these need to be explored before I feel that I can have healthy relationships. Manipulation? I only see one definition here and know it's determined by my history so I'll take a pass so as not to jade others.

In the meantime, so that I'm not totally isolated, which I am a fair bit, I have a few folks I interact with from time to time for coffee or lunch, but that's about it. I sense and have found that people in real-time rarely can relate to or want to relate to what they have not experienced. Instead, they either use what had been shared shame or harm, or at best offer something in the way of justification or a strategy to "fix" me or my issue. Honey, please! I can't stand "fixers!" Thus, I keep most relationships on the surface, focusing mostly on them. I respect my vulnerability right now and self-protect. I'm hopeful that someday when I'm sturdier I will find my butterflies - people who are genuine and creative, and so much more. Okay, maybe naïve, but a girl can hope.

This is the right place for me to be right now in focusing on building a relationship with myself and all that entails. Where do you think you are right now in this process or relationship building?

 

[Jim Me]

And the thing was I did some big truth telling in my mid teens. I told the truth what was going on at h...

I know this is not advice or empathy, but I think it's OK to say that all that scapegoating and loss was just not fair, and I definitely congratulate you on getting this far after that!

I, for one, don't know how I would have kept going after that. One thing that may be of consolation is that our struggles may bring us to a higher level of emotional intelligence and maturity than the average person when we're getting along well in our recovery. I know there's some science to back that up. I hope the science is correct on that.

Hoping you get the presence to speak your truth.

 

[ms spock]

Where do you think you are right now in this process or relationship building?

Very unsure!

 

[ms spock]

I am doing the relationship building now. It is a new area for me. It is really hard.

 

[One step at a time]

I know I saw this thread back in December.
And I know I just re-read it and felt like it was totally new.
There are so many things in this thread that are true for me, too. I'm only just starting to recognize them...
1. the last two T sessions, we spent a bunch of time on other people and how I connect.
2. We also talked about the fact I was taught I am a liar, and so I have this hidden/implicit mistrust in myself and my feelings, sometimes.
3. Before that, we talked about my relationship with myself a bunch. Definitely not done sorting that one...
There's more, but I need to step away now.

Thank you to everyone who wrote here, especially @Ms Spock

 

[VioletButterfly]

It is really hard.

Yes ma'am. I hear you. Still a work in progress on my end as well. For me, it's not so much about seeing progress, but about finding peace and acceptance within myself. Staying in the moment while considering what the background noise is saying and watching my actions/reactions. I continually ask myself: "Where did all of these automatic thoughts/behaviors come from? I certainly hear and understand what @One step at a time wrote about regarding working through the lies we are told/taught as children and how they impact our relationships with ourselves and others. It is so very true - at least in my case in terms of core beliefs and thought processes.

I looked back at your original question regarding how to be honest and assertive without being manipulative. I guess trying to be honest with myself first is what I'm working on. In interacting with others, I stay in protective and mostly superficial mode, so I can't provide much that would be helpful at this point. I'm hoping by knowing myself better and trusting myself, I'll be more comfortable in relating to others.

How are you approaching all of this @Ms Spock? What tools are you finding helpful at this point?

 

[ms spock]

I continually ask myself: "Where did all of these automatic thoughts/behaviors come from?"

That is really helpful @VioletButterfly. That is a rational question that I can use to start breaking it down and apart. That is a really useful reframing for me.

I am being terribly brave and do so many things that are hard and triggers for me. It is most challenging. I get stuck every now and then, and I seek insight and assistance so I can do some type of course correction. It is hard when you never got to develop a self before the abuse started - there is no place to aim for or even to understand that that space as a human exists. I can't explain it. Anyway I will continue to ask that question: "Where Did all of these automatic throughts/behavours come from?

This morning I woke up. I listened to some of "The Mindful Way Through Depression". I thought about the Mindfulness I would do today. I did some Self Compassion Breaks. I hugged my partner and checked in with him. I ate a little bit of salad. Then we took the dog for a walk on the beach. After that we went to another beach to see if there was a place at the dog cafe. Then we went to a hardware store to get some hanging hooks for Papa Bear. B had some sausage sizzles from a charity stall. I didn't as I am cutting down the meat that I am eating. I was challenging my thoughts when we were walking, and shifting my focus on to the positive things. I also practiced Radical Acceptance. I challenged my thoughts. I thought of confronting someone on their utter garbage and I am not sure if it is worth it as they are firmly planted in the echo chamber of their own confirmation bias. I felt annoyed with my partner but I reframed what I was thinking and worked things out for myself rather than be reacctive. I thought about some things I need to do to get ready for teaching and things I need to do to renovate the house. My partner is very ill at the moment so I thought about managing that as well.

A lot of what I have to do now is finetuning, and stepping up to the next level of my recovery. Sometimes it does seem terribly hard, particularly at this stage of learning how to be in my body for a few minutes at a time, whilst I am not severely dissociated. I am finding it overwhelming. Sitting with me, my feelings and thoughts is totally overwhelming and something I have never been able to do before. I thought I was but I was in a food coma or massively dissociated - to the point I put on 23 kilos and only realised this when I got a shock and saw a photo of myself. So knowing where I am in relation to things is tricky, but often I am not sure what is going on with myself.

 

[ms spock]

I have actually improved in this particular arena of being assertive and not manipulative so much. I am doing so much better with it all. It is still really challenging, as I am having to learn skills that some people learn when they are under ten years old and also in their adolescent years. Being more present in my body, and not so dissociated, means I can communicate in a much better way. I think I am becoming a more easier person to be around. I still don't feel like I have a right to say no or to set limits and boundaries (visceral belief that I should just give to anyone what they want - my being is to serve others), but hey I am improving so, so, so much in this arena.

Being assertive and not manipulative is really a work in progress. I was trained and conditioned to lie from such an early age. I will get there on this one, with lots of practice - I am getting so good and skilful at practising new skills, having the persistance to keep practising and also finetuning my practising and routines. I will get up at 4.30am in the morning to do a practice before leaving at 5.10am. I am becoming quite disciplined. I actually have been disciplined for some years now, come to think of it. But it is deepening - all my practices.