When Guilt & Shame Is Well Earned

[Friday]

There is an incrediably beautiful quote on the forum this morning attributed to Anaïs Nin; Shame is the lie someone told you about yourself.

I love that quote. It's simply stunning.

It's also only true, sometimes. It works really well with victim crimes, and blaming yourself for shit that quite frankly was out of your control. The entire swath of childhood trauma. Accidents. Actions done by others. Even one's own actions when cleaning up someone else's mess. Or by fault of being new, inexperienced, or in any other way out of your depth. Learning. Such a stone cold bitch, that. As well as many other things, that all fall outside of your area of responsibility; or that you did the best you could, with what you had at the time, and either shit still went sideways, or there was never a snowflakes chance in hell of altering the outcome to begin with. I've got a little of that. Things I blame myself for that frankly aren't my fault, that I take on anyway. The distance between head and heart, knowing and believing, is a sometime impossible distance.

This isn't the guilt & shame I'm talking about. Not the kind "not your fault" applies to.

I really don't want to get into specific examples to try and tear apart how something might not be my fault. For one thing, it's not a short list, and I'm not really stable enough to go dredging through the darkest times of my life to pick and choose amongst my regrets, sorrows, & shames, just so people can agree I done f*cked up. I know it. And I know there's shit I blame myself for that ain't mine. So if we can just take it as met that there are things I've done "I'm not proud of" doesn't even begin to cover, I'd appreciate it.

What I'm asking for, is any advice from folks who do rate their guilt and shame.

- When I've been super lucky I've gotten the chance to learn from what I've f*cked up. To be presented with the same scenario, different time & place, and choose differently. It doesn't erase the guilt of the past, doesn't change it, but it helps to balance it. To square it some.
- When I'm not that lucky, it's just something I've learned to wear. Snort. Often times badly, but hey. This is the one that chafes the hardest in the onslaught if the 'not your fault' business. Yes. Actually. Some things are my fault. And there is jack all I can do about it. <<< That I know of, in any event.
- When I'm unlucky, not only do I really f*cking hate & despise what I did, but I would do it again.

***

I know this is long. And most of it is caveat. To forestall the "It isn't your fault' business. Yes. Actually. Some shit is my fault. Isn't a question I'd ask, usually, my fault = my responsibility. But I figured law of averages means I'm probably not the only person with well earned guilt, shame, regret. And maybe someone has a better answer to how you deal with that, than mine; You just do. Own it, learn from it, and if you're f*cking lucky as hell maybe you'll get a chance to do differently someday.

 

[Deleted member 38644]

I blame myself for domestic abuse. I feel guilty about not knowing what to do to prevent him from beating me. I blame myself for my friends death. I feel guilty that I thought her mom knew the things I was telling her but she didn't have a clue. I blame myself because if I would have said something she would be here today but I had no idea because I was in domestic abuse myself. If I was back in the city the guy wouldn't have did that to her or set her on fire. I still cry about her death because I'm not over her. I blame myself more than anything for her death. I put my heart into my best friend homicide case while I helped her mom. I had no clue she was even in the hospital when I moved back home. I was out of communication for months when her family tried to contact me. I was being beaten and I didn't get the chance to hold her hand or anything. I blame myself

 

[BlueOrange]

I'd like to offer a clearer reply than the stuff below, but this is a difficult topic for me.

There are things that I've done that I've been ashamed of. People tried to tell me that it wasn't my fault, and my response was, "Well, you don't believe in personal responsibility!" High standards - how is anybody supposed to achieve anything without high standards?

Historically, I effectively relied on saying "That wasn't me." As a DID sufferer, I would identify the thought pattern that was to blame, craft a new 'perfect' personality, and declare that the bad behaviour belonged to 'the old me', who was now dead. The problem was that these 'old me' people tended to contain thoughts and behaviours that I needed, so it was unsustainable.

There's a 'cold, hard' kind of forgiveness that I learned to practice that might work for you. If a snake bites someone, we don't have to be angry at the snake: we can say 'snakes bite people, and they're not going to stop biting people just because I'm angry about it'. We can still kill the snake if it's a danger, but we don't have to be angry with it.

Guilt and shame, the desire to un-make what we did and to hide what we did, these things don't fix the problem. (You know that, I think.) Sometimes, we can kinda-sorta fix the problem the way you mentioned, by getting 'better' and choosing differently next time. Sometimes, a satisfying fix is impossible and/or unimaginable. In which case, grief is what we need to feel.

You've hinted in other threads (and this one) that your preferred strategy with horrible things is to make light of them. But some things are too big for that, to heavy and painful to be made light of. Sometimes, you do have to stop and just 'be in pain'. There is a power in surrender; in saying "Yes, I did this bad thing, and it hurts, and I can't fix it."

I'm unsatisfied with this comment of mine. I really want to feel like I can explain and justify the process that is easing my guilt. Feedback appreciated.

 

[ladee]

Learning the difference between toxic and healthy shame and guilt was like a road map of sorts.
The toxic shame I knew up close and personal. The toxic guilt was a given being the scapegoat.

I dont allow anyone to shame me today. Toxic or healthy. I can feel guilt all by myself, thank you Very much!

Being in NA Twelve Steps helped a lot to help me make distinctions about what I was accountable for. And I was able to make ammends for a lot of what was mine. Didn't matter if the person accepted it or not. I was doing for me.
Going No Contact with my family enabled me to have the space to untangle their crap from mine. Years of therapy to heal from that damage.
My son tho.. He could turn me inside out with both guilt and shame.

That has been the hardest. I can honestly say I have worked sooo hard on this in regard to him. But can also say the toxic guilt is gone.
The healthy shame I feel today is a work in progress. Working on self forgiveness.
I will not have the opportunity to do things different with him. His choice. But that doesn't stop me from continuing this work in my day to day life.
This is the condensed version.it was years of work.

 

[Carmen J. Brown]

I think that the reason people aren't replying to this is because we feel it so much, there isn't really anything to add. Thank you for posting this.

 

[ladee]

@BlueOrange , I'm not sure what you are expecting of yourself here.
You comments made perfect sense to me.
And yes, we hold our self accountable for plowing thru the mess others created FOR us. But we are not accountable TO them or FOR them.
I can even say to people now.."you are accountable for your part". Then I let it go. That's the toxic part..if onlys and may be if I had of. I am responsible for transcending my beginning. My ending is going to be different. I am going to win. Some things are as healed as it can be. I don't have to keep picking at it to see if it still bleeds..
We are SO hard on our self. Thats why we need people here to remind us of our fallible "humaness". I don't want to get it perfect. Two reasons..one I have enough to change without getting into perfection.two..it leaves no room for growth if I have to revisit it. Then I have to waste time beating myself up for not getting it perfect.
That can be a loop we put our self in.
You made perfect sense to me.
Be a little kinder to yourself..you don't even have to tell anyone.
You are one of the most forthcoming men on this forum. And it is deeply appreciated by me.
Made sense to me.

 

[joeylittle]

What I'm asking for, is any advice from folks who do rate their guilt and shame.

I don't know if I've got advice. But I try and accept it. It's much easier to apply that to what I'd call 'normal' guilt and/or shame...things that don't link to trauma but are still actions that I've taken that have harmed others.

Acceptance, but not okay-ness. So technically, Radical Acceptance. Grasping and believing in the fact that it's done, and I can't un-do it. I did a thing I need to learn to live with. Not by trying to magnify it to punish myself or shrink it by giving myself the ways I wasn't responsible. Just, accepting it, as a thing that is true - that I don't want to do again, that I don't admire.

 

[Fiadh]

This post hurts to read, only because I feel guilty for my actions, I feel like it was my fault people died and I did nothing to help, I feel that I have gone over this with therapists over and over and tried to pick it apart, however not been able to speak my truth and what I actually feel. My words generally just don't come out, I tend to freeze up. Everyday I live with the guilt and everyday I try to make amends in any way I can. When life now throws shit my way, I kinda think... well you deserve that. And I'm not sure when or if that thinking will ever end.

If I had the chance to do things differently, during that time, I would probably be dead now because I think that survival mode saved my stinking arse

 

[BlueOrange]

@BlueOrange , I'm not sure what you are expecting of yourself here.
You comments made...

Thanks :)

I've always believed that if I'd been able to explain myself properly, I would have been safe. The upside of this is that I've made good money in jobs that essentially consist of 'Explain difficult concepts to people who control money'. The downside is the perfectionism, and the reluctance to speak up unless I know I'm getting it right.

So I felt a bit guilty that I couldn't explain it as well as I wanted to. And I was open about it, and apologized. This did two things: it helped me to feel a bit better about not hitting my desired standard, and it prompted you to say something reassuring, which helped :)

I also tend to find it easier to forgive myself for things if I've forgiven someone else for something similar. Cheri Huber is reassuring on this front - she was told "You will do for others what you cannot do for yourself" and I think that applies to me, too.

 

[shimmerz]

What I'm asking for, is any advice from folks who do rate their guilt and shame.

I try not to bring the words guilt or shame (especially shame) into it. I feel like that is an attack on myself, which, quite honestly, I don't need.

I try to use the phrase 'I wish I had done better'. It feels more supportive and I find it equally as motivating, if not more so than the verbage most of us have been taught to use when we would like to have done better. I think we can be kind to ourselves AND improve ourselves without using heavily judgemental words.

 

[Rumors]

Guilt/Shame/"I wish I had done better" just equals a form of self judgement md lack of forgiveness of ones self. I think you have to break each individual regret down as a singular and not globally lump all regrets into the same bucket. It becomes too overwhelming. Pick a regret, sit with it, find out what it would take for you to forgive someone else of the same crime and apply to yourself. Don't question it. Just apply the same forgiveness that you would afford anyone else in the same position.
I have loads of regret!!! Buckets upon buckets. Dump trucks full of regret. Most were because I didn't know any better. Perhaps they were because of previous experiences that I had. I wrestled with some of them. I am not at global forgiveness level by any stretch but I started with some smaller ones as practice and move on to some larger ones as I go. I always apply the rule, "if my son had made this mistake, what would I say?" I struggle most days... I have made a lot of mistakes. It will take me a long while to work through these... Hang in there...

 

[Beemo3780]

I take a lot of responsibilities for my actions, and for the most part, it has helped me in the long run. No excuses. I don't have shame or guilt for what my parents did, but I don't use it as an excuse for my behavior.

I blame myself for the abusive situation that I ultimately put myself in with my ex husband, because even though at the time I was terrified to leave, I didn't have to be there or endure that for any reason. I was able to get out, and if I had stuck to my guns the first or second attempts, I would have gotten out much earlier. And I had my face and ribs broken leaving, it's sad that it took that to wake me up to how serious it really was. I made the excuse that it wasn't the right time and was protecting my daughter's future because I was afraid he would take her from me. It was bullshit. It was never going to be the "right" time and I lost 10 years of my life, and my daughter's childhood was tarnished because of it. That's all on me. People have said to me, "Oh it's ok" and "You did your best", and seriously f*ck that, no, I didn't. I can't put any of the blame on him because I knew he was violent and unhinged when I met him, and I stayed, and worse yet, had a kid with him. Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out how that will turn out. I was a very stupid girl.

I'm harsh on myself, but it gets me out of my house. It helps me to live my life by admitting all of my mistakes, owning them, and moving forward with NEVER making those mistakes again. There's no time travel, can't undo what I did, but I can do better every day that I'm alive.

If I'm having an anxious or panic filled day, I now make sure I spend a little time alone to gather my thoughts and then interact with my friends and family. They get it if I'm secluding myself for a moment. That's better than lashing out at them. It's not fair if I'm the jerk to them because I can't get my head straight for a moment. They shouldn't have to put up with that, and I wouldn't expect them to.