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Excuses

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Sandstone

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We are used to reading "PTSD isn't an excuse to behave badly" in the context of relationships, and accept that it can't be used to justify violence and aggression. Yet, isn't that all we do with all the other "symptoms"?

If I avoid getting in the shower, or say to OH that I've been out twice this week and need a quiet day to recover and so don't cook or clean, or use my PTSD to claim sickness benefits, am I not just using PTSD as an excuse for laziness and selfishness?
 
Flying into a rage and dumping on someone is abuse.
Not coping with chores can certainly be a symptom of the disorder, that why it's called a disorder, it disorders life and your body and brain.

For me, it's a disability, and for my partner.
I cope as best as I can but I'm not real well and I'm doing what I can to get better.

I don't have the luxury of having a partner I can "dump domestic jobs on" because he's a sufferer too and it sucks. I'm not happy about it but I'd rather have compassion for myself than load myself up with expectations and give myself a hard time if I can't live up to them.

I've had too much of a hard time already, that's why I suffer like this and am debilitated.

I don't WANT to be so dysfunctional but household chores are excruciating after the utter hell I was put through for loads of years and years so I work to get over this thing.

One day these chores will not have the same charge as I will be much better, but today, I'm wanting so bad to escape, so I'm on here, rather than doing what needs to be done in the house.

I'm dearly hope tomorrow I can tackle some of it, because I hate this. But I have to be gentle with myself, so no, it's not an excuse, it's a real condition, with real bad suffering and I wouldn't wish it on anybody.
 
I'm sick with food poisoning. I cannot take care of my child today. Which of the following best describes what happened today?

A) Neglect.
B) Good Parenting.

Could be either, right? Or neither. All depends not on my being sick, but on other factors. Like whether or not I've hired a babysitter before going back to bed, or if I have a spouse/family/neighbors to step in whilst I'm sick, or my child isn't a 6mo old but 16yo and can take care of themselves for a day.

Now... Let's assume that I made the responsible choices, and my child is being taken care of. Am I just using being sick as an excuse to be lazy and selfish?

And does that answer change if it's not food poisoning (1 day), but a broken leg (6 weeks), or PTSD (intermittently), or MS (life)? By making sure my responsibilities are met by someone else, when I am unable to meet them myself... Is that just an excuse to be lazy and selfish?


ETA... See how that doesn't parse? If I WASNT making sure that my responsibilities were met, even if I'm not the person actually meeting them, it would be neglect. And I'd be using my illness as an excuse for neglect. Whether it's 1 day or lifelong. That's the missing step in your logic. The middle piece. PTSD doesn't excuse bad behavior (ie abuse, etc.), because there are ways to deal with having symptoms & side effects that do not equal abuse. The same way that there are ways to deal with the symptoms & effects of food poisoning, without it equalling neglect.
 
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I am loving this thread. Being "lazy" is a constant fear of mine and frankly, it's not healthy or realistic. My dad made me feel that I was lazy several times when I was growing up. I wasn't lazy, just very tired. Today, my inner critic picks up the slack. I have to dump the household duties onto my spouse so often due to mental illness, or busyness, that the guilt and shame just piles on.

Here's the thing, my spouse doesn't complain. All of the blame and shame is in my head. He's washing the dishes and yelling at the kids right now. Lol. He knows what takes priority. I wish my brain would figure that out too.
 
yea - I spent the entire day on the couch. Everytime I think I can function I stand up ..walk a few feet...realize that's not gonna happen and head back to the couch. It's taken me a long time to accept that between the PTSD and the fibro some days are going to just suck. I'm about 50/50 on if I'm lazy or sick. Depends on the minute I guess.

I've found that if I just accept it, I can keep it to one or two days. If I push it's going to rebound and be 5 or 6. So I have a basket of movies, books, tea, laptop, munchies and I try to turn it into "I'm taking a day off" and not "I'm a F*&&*ing loser"

One win -- I now have you all to keep me company!
 
I'm going to persist, despite apparently being in a minority of one and a half.
I'm about 50/50 on if I'm lazy or sick

I think the key question is "How do you know?"
In @Friday 's example
I'm sick with food poisoning. I cannot take care of my child today.
, when you have contagious bodily fluids emerging from multiple offices, then there is no doubt. With an invisible, mental condition how can anyone be sure whether the "need" to rest is genuine or avoidance? On any occasion it could be real, could be imaginary or could be any combination of the two.

my spouse doesn't complain.
No, neither does mine. I know that he likes to be caring and supportive, so I'm not sure he would ever complain, even if I was definitely taking the P. That means it isn't a useful criterion for judging the reasonableness of my behaviour.

I've posted this in Avoidance because I know that I'm so often afraid and want to hide. I never know if giving into that fear is the right way to go. I don't understand how washing the kitchen floor can be an occasion of fear "It's too big a job, it's too hard, I can't do it" when I know objectively that I can do it in under 5 minutes. So I suspect that is avoidance, not genuine inability.

Conversely, I have made a fixed decision that I will not avoid Tai Chi class, so I went this week, despite feeling overwhelmed by the previous few days. During the class I experienced a lot of derealistion, and then moved to the stage where I genuinely thought I might faint - sweating, lightheaded, nausea. Perhaps I should have taken that evening off and not forced myself to connect with my body. But how do I know? How can I tell what is genuine and what is using PTSD as and excuse for bad behaviour?
 
I think that is a very good question, but isn't avoidance issues part of the condition?
I'm unsure how judging myself as lazy is going to help me overcome my avoidance patterns?
But if I acknowledge them as part of my condition, I can get get help and support to overcome them.
Does that make sense?
 
I think it depends on what we think for ourselves.
Am I being lazy or selfish?
I don't know, am I?

Can I really not do this (Insert task)? Maybe, but is the time and effort to struggle through worth it? Or is it better to wait for a better time? Will that time ever come?

Is it something I need to do for me? For someone else?
Am I hurting myself by not doing it?
Or am I hurting myself by not waiting?

The answers to these questions I think, are what makes the difference between being lazy and selfish, careful and mindful.

But that's me.
 
We are used to reading "PTSD isn't an excuse to behave badly" in the context of relationships, and accept that it can't be used to justify violence and aggression. Yet, isn't that all we do with all the other "symptoms"?
Don't know that excuse making is all we do with the other symptoms, no, but good point about avoidance and procrastination. Depression, anxiety, hopelessness and withdrawing from friends and family are all indicative of someone suffering from avoidance.

Procrastination can take hold on any aspect of life for anybody (it's a habit/behavior issue though yeah it's a symptom of PTSD as well)—putting off cleaning the stove, repairing a leaky roof, seeing a doctor or dentist, submitting a job report or academic assignment or broaching a stressful issue with a partner. Procrastination can lead to feelings of guilt, inadequacy, depression and self-doubt. It's not hard to see how whether it's PTSD style/type avoidance or a habit/behavior of procrastination how negative the impact can be to self, family, friends, coworkers etc. So, yeah, I like where your mind went about avoidance because to me "PTSD isn't an excuse to behave badly" or to explain/excuse my behavior day to day in other areas of my life as best as I am able "at that time" and on a case/task by case/task basis.

I will say too, that to me largely, avoidance and procrastination are synonymous unless the avoidant behavior directly links back to a PTSD stressor or trigger (i.e. avoiding cooking anything on the stove because my abusive parent put my hand on a hot burner and caused injury, etc.) - but there are various ways to adapt to compensate for those often times.

If I avoid getting in the shower, or say to OH that I've been out twice this week and need a quiet day to recover and so don't cook or clean, or use my PTSD to claim sickness benefits, am I not just using PTSD as an excuse for laziness and selfishness?
Quite a broad range between avoiding a shower through to "using" PTSD to claim sickness benefits on the example on the opening post. But my answer is: possibly - any mental or physical chronic debility can become an "excuse" when avoidance or procrastination becomes a behavior... however too, when dealing with chronic mental or physical issues there will be times that tasks just aren't doable.

PTSD or no PTSD in all chronic conditions, both mental or physical, there can be a mindset for varying levels of avoidance/procrastination about self care activities, task completion, and problem solving. The spectrum ranges from straight forward avoidance, all the way through pushing way past the point of certain preferred tasks/activities only to come up short in other less desired areas of life.

The trick is not to allow the incident by incident avoidance/procrastination to settle into a habit and then a maladaptive behavior in as much as possible. To me personally, it is an opportunity to challenge myself on to endeavor to improve to a more consistent level in as much as my varying day to day condition will allow. Which is goal challenges to break old habits and instill new more beneficial ones.

So far as "laziness and selfishness" - those are just two of the feelings that can arise from avoidance or procrastination as I shared above. But so far as PTSD is concerned, there's no need to pick up a big stick and induce guilt/shame/blame for it because it drives the behavior. So, being mindfully aware of your daily condition helps. Being able to assess your mental and physical state and chose tasks accordingly helps. Being able to communicate to your partner or family helps.

am I not just using PTSD as an excuse for laziness and selfishness?
Dunno. Are you? Am I? At times I know I avoid or procrastinate... but many people do that not just PTSD's... so personally, no I don't use PTSD as an excuse to not do tasks. I might have other excuses but typically not that one. Here's some more from wiki:

"Negative coping responses of procrastinating individuals tend to be avoidant or emotional rather than task-oriented or focused on problem-solving. Emotional and avoidant coping is employed to reduce stress (and cognitive dissonance) associated with putting off intended and important personal goals. This option provides immediate pleasure and is consequently very attractive to impulsive procrastinators at their first knowledge of achievable goals. There are several emotion-oriented strategies, similar to Freudian defense mechanisms, coping styles and self-handicapping.

Coping responses of procrastinators include the following:
  • Avoidance: Avoiding the location or situation where the task takes place (e.g. a graduate student avoiding driving into the university).
  • Denial and trivialization: Pretending that procrastinatory behavior is not actually procrastinating, but rather a task which is more important than the avoided one, or that the essential task that should be done is not of immediate importance.
  • Distraction: Engaging or immersing in other behaviors or actions to prevent awareness of the task (e.g. intensive video game playing or web browsing). They are very sensitive to instant gratification and become powerless.
  • Descending counterfactuality: Comparing a life situation with others who have it worse (e.g. "Yes, I procrastinated and got a B− in the course, but I didn't fail like one other student did.")
  • Valorisation: Pointing in satisfaction to what one achieved in the meantime while one should have been doing something else.
  • Blaming: Delusional attributions to external factors, such as rationalizing that the procrastination is due to external forces beyond one's control (e.g. "I'm not procrastinating, but this assignment is tough.")
  • Mocking: Using humor to validate one's procrastination. The person uses slapstick or slipshod methods to criticize others' striving towards the goal as funny.
Task- or problem-solving measures are taxing from a procrastinator's outlook. If such measures are pursued, it is less likely the procrastinator would remain a procrastinator. However, pursuing such measures requires actively changing one's behavior or situation to prevent and minimize the re-occurrence of procrastination."

So as you can see from the above, other than "excuse making" to attempt to justify or rationalize avoidance or procrastination there are various other tactics that people can employ.

Okay so here's an article from 2007 that is one of my favorites. It is on Dysfunctional Procrastination however it has a lot to offer and can also be applied to avoidance: Dead Link Removed
 
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