Relationship Have i messed up? or am i taking positive steps?!

[mumstheword]

I'm feeling for you having such a tough time of it. Believe me I do get a lot of what you're dealing with and why you've done your best to be a caring, loving, compassionate, rational and same person in her life and now her insanity has got you questioning your own and not feeling so sane yourself. Don't be hard on yourself, you've had the very best of intentions but have, clearly, been operating from some harmful premises

We can find it hard to accept our powerlessness in these sorts of situations.

The thing is, this woman.is still busy digging a big hole for herself and she can't help but pull you in with her. She needs to hit her own rock bottom and it needs to be clear that it is her.

Projecting and transference of issues are her default reaction because it's too scary to face the level of her unwellness. It's humiliating. She can't turn around and start rewarding you for being good to her. In fact, the more kind, loving, understanding, tolerant and patient you are to her, the more humiliated she will feel, because the stark contrast shows up her faults and it's too humiliating. You will always have to pay for humiliating her by seeing her when she's not ready to see herself. She can't respect herself because her behaviour is not respect-able and she won't accept or respect you because you are allowing yourself to be subject to disrespecta-able treatment. You are actually colluding with her lies and insane manipulative desparate-drowning-person behaviour. She doesn't ever want to face herself, it's very very painful to accept how far one is from where one wants to be but by leaving her and taking her at her word, you will actually help her to start to face herself (she still has to make that choice tho, and there is NOTHING you can do to make that happen, it's hers and hers alone).

No doubt she means it when she says she loves you and that's very alluring for you. And maybe some part of you wants to be possessed. But her love is sick.She needs all the time she needs to begin her own journey of honesty so she can learn to love and begin to respect herself before her love is healthy.

I myself do suffer from c-ptsd (although not recognised as such, my diagnosis is ptsd ) and I've been borderline (mis)diagnosed when I myself was in one of those sick codependent relationships because I was very very ill. The difference is that I am honest. I own my own sickness and thus can heal and change and get help and love healthily despite my significant childhood and abuse wounds. It's hard. It takes lots of courage.

I had to leave my sick relationship, I could NEVER have left my borderline symptoms behind while I was in that sick dynamic because my ex partner was never willing to own his part, his shadow, his terrible gaslighting sickness. I got all the accusations and the pull ins. He couldn't respect me because I was so manipulatable but I was such a convenient scapegoat and person to lean on. My belief that love could fix it was misguided because he wasn't willing to face how ill he was/is. He used different tactics he told me he wanted to "heal me" and that if I left he'd keep our children because "I was crazy and I'd never get them". When I left he said "he just wanted to nurture me" but he'd told my kids pediatrician that "I was a psychopath and I torture my children" she rang me and told me and I started to wake up from the crazy-making dynamic.

In actual fact I did suffer from c-ptsd and he would goud me until I cried and he wouldn't even let me have any time away from the children (he wanted to keep us all on a very tight leash) and they would see me cry. That's the "torture".

True borderline people seem to accuse others of their own crimes and yet they are always the victims (in their minds).

So my suggestion is to ask her why she's texting you, emailing, whatever she does,. Hold her to her word. That's a boundary right there. Don't get swayed by the "hoovering" . Constantly remind yourself of her actions if she is trying to fascinate you and mesmerize you with her words. It's like a trance state, a hypnosis that very sick, manipulative borderline people do because they've convinced themselves of their own lies and they can be very convincing because of their conviction. But their past behaviour speaks louder that any words. The words are empty without proof of action.

Your mistake is trying to love someone who can't receive love and getting sucked in to the toxic codependent dynamic.

Stand firm. She can't, so you need to.

 

[ByrnesT]

@mumstheword thank you. Just thank you. I can’t tell you how much the fact you’re listening is a huge comfort.

This whole thread here has broken me. I came to understand & question myself & get some support, but this has ended up putting me in the worst of places. And not for the first time!

There are people who have said good things for me to hear. Not easy things to hear, but necessary & good things. But it’s also all been hijacked by massive untruths. Not deliberately of course for the majority, but nevertheless huge misinterpretations.

To hear “this really is all about you isn’t it?” when in fact nothing has been about me since meeting my ex, that stings a bit.

To be told your ex must have felt “threatened” by you for her to suggest contacting the police, when in fact she was 30 miles away from you; you haven’t seen her in about 5 weeks; you barely speak apart from when she gets in touch for another fight; you were completely calm & simply trying to respond to her messages; & the “harassment” allegation came after literally about 3 text replies to her contacting you; it’s pretty hard to have to take the stigma that comes from those words. It was all a fiction of my ex’s that I was willing to share here & it has come back to bite me hard cos people have jumped to all sorts of conclusions about me. My ex’s lies become bigger & bigger & she constantly ups her game. They’re clearly beginning to work it seems too. Yes excellent reasons for me to run from her as fast as I can. But only cos she is clearly now the threat to me, not the other way around.

When you make it clear you alone have kept her children out of this & have always been sure to protect them first, to then be told “leave her children alone”, it paints an image of you that is really uncomfortable & feels like not a word you’re saying is being listened to.

To be told you were dumped 6 months ago so clearly it’s YOU who’s too arrogant to let go or respect her boundaries is just ignoring all the details I have tried my best to fill in. There isn’t enough time in the world to list everything that has gone on but at least try to absorb some of what I am saying. And apparently I must be pretty arrogant cos she’s dumped me over 150 times yet I’m just not listening to her. Yet that is entirely not what has happened in the slightest. Call me a messed up idiot for putting up with this crap sure! Painting it as an example of my refusal to listen to her want to leave me tho is an absolute joke.

I don’t mind people saying things to challenge me. I came for that. But I have people telling me I refuse to change?! Yet in the short space of time since joining this site I have gotten myself therapy that I cannot afford & have learnt a hell of a lot by being here. I am learning now to change all my behaviours towards her. It hasn’t happened over night but it is coming. That has all come from people challenging me & i have appreciated it all.

Look I can’t possibly dissect everything that has been said here in this thread, I’d be here all day.

I have been very open to questioning my own actions & motives with this relationship, you can read things I have shared & opened up on to see that. I’m in the process of asking myself some very difficult questions off the back of being here. That’s all come from people speaking honestly with me & challenging me. And none of it I wanted to hear obviously cos who does want to hear you have issues?! But none of that made me upset with anyone i heard from. I welcomed & digested it all.

But just because I try to explain that some things have been taken wrongly today, misinterpreted & I have been misrepresented, that does not mean I am arrogantly in denial. I have lived it. I own my mistakes. I am challenging myself. But if the conversation goes down the road of things that are simply not true, I have every right to say that. I have lived in the pocket of someone who has not honestly reflected circumstances for over 2.5 years, i don’t need to come here for that. Mistakes are fine of course. It’s hard to read posts on here & absorb all of someone else’s situation & i appreciate that. Plus we all have our own agendas. But when that person says “no, that part is not a true reflection”, at least listen & digest the information back rather than just repeat the same statements over & over. Don’t make your initial stance “I may be wrong but I highly doubt it”. And don’t make that person out to be arrogant or in denial just because they tell you you got something wrong about them.

I have been trapped in one of these conversations today:
- You’re really argumentative.
- No I’m not.
- See!

Basically there has been an image painted from which there has been no escaping. It’s an image that is not reflective of me or the circumstances. And a few have really not been interested in listening to me.

Thank you @joeylittle . I appreciate your message very much but I will slightly disagree with you tho when you say no one is attacking me. There is most definitely a person who has attacked me here. Not for the first time. And I’m not the only person I’ve witnessed this person do it to.

As I have just gone to great length to try & explain, mistakes are one thing. I don’t hold grudges about anyone else here, I know their intentions were good. I would rather people listened further rather than just stick to their first assumptions, but people get things wrong some times. As I clearly have in my life for you all now to see!

But someone with an agenda to attack & frankly bully is something else altogether. And that is what happens with this poster & I don’t actually know what their gripe is with me (or others).

It was particularly nice of them to inform me how my life problems are not problems in the slightest. Me being abused for 2.5 years & now trying to deal with/escape this is clearly all trivial nonsense. Maybe it’s a classic “men can’t be abused by women” thing, I really have no idea.

But it’s fair to say I’m at breaking point now so as trivial as my life may be to that person, they can be proud to know they have pushed a well intended but naive person that little bit further over the edge.

Tho they are a Sufferer, they need to learn that Supporters are suffering too. I’m now an ex supporter who maybe has issues of their own they’re just learning about. But those issues have made me love someone too much & damaged myself in the process. I took abuse because my loved one was abused & hasn’t yet learnt any other way. Of course that was misguided. But loving too much doesn’t seem the worst crime in the world either.

This was my 2nd period of trying to talk on this site & finding a safe space to share, listen & learn to adapt. I also wanted to be heard tho. It’s ended worse than the first time. I don’t need to have someone trying to bully me when I’m at my rock bottom. I really don’t feel I’m a welcome presence here now so I will try to refrain from subjecting anyone to any more of my unwanted comments which get too many replies (my fault as well apparently). I’m sorry to all that I have clearly caused such problems here. I’m not strong enough for this anymore tho.

 

[Sweetpea76]

@ByrnesT this is a mental health forum, and you'll get a wide variety of responses here. Sometimes people take things we write personally and respond poorly to it. The honest truth is there is no safe space on the internet in a public forum.

It is best to just take what you need and leave the rest... especially if some of it is helpful.

 

[mumstheword]

I agree with all those who have recommended self-care as a primary go-to @ByrnesT . It's totally understandable that you are hurting this much.
I just got told off by my current partner for saying I had borderline symptoms because as he says I'm nothing like that at all, never have been.
You too, have been accused of things that are not true. It's very hurtful and can make us feel kind of loco. It gets so smudged and confused when we are dealing with this level of "false witnessing".
We can get in the headspace of starting to believe the lies and then we are in an even worse position.
So don't worry about what doesn't fit your situation. No one knows it better than you. No one knows what you need and who you are better than you. You are the expert in your own life.
You have a loving heart. You are honest and kind. You thought you could help her by loving her. She's even more ill and disconnected from reality than you thought. You are a bit infected with the crazy now. Now you need recovery time from the crazy making.

You tried your best. You need to love you and get back in touch with yourself because you are no good to anyone when your own sanity has been eroded this much. Sorry that's harsh. I had to take myself out of it. I couldn't even parent my children at my worst. It's very damaging.
Take good care of you please. You are burnt out and frayed. It's exhausting to give so much to someone who's too ill to receive but drags you in anyway.
You are a good person. You know you are. You are an intelligent and caring and strong person. I can tell. This kind of stuff knocks the best people out of their centre. It's not you, it's the crazy.

 

[mumstheword]

I wanted to say please come back and share. In a safe way for you. Some of us really do care. I think it's just one of those situations, maybe, that you have to have lived, to truly understand.
I feel for you with the hurt that you are feeling and being misunderstood, that's just more of what has caused you harm in the first place.

Please know that people (I can't talk for others but myself and my partner totally get it) do care and understand just how damaging to your being this all has been.

Would love an update one day. When things have settled down. If you feel that is something you could do that supports you, anyways. We are rooting for you and your restored sense of self and empowerment and recovery from this mindf*ck.

 

[Freida]

I really don’t feel I’m a welcome presence here now

It has been a tough day hasn't it?

Here's my two cents: You are in an impossible position. What is being suggested is mostly good advice and well meant - but really. If you were able to do those things you would have done them already. You need help -- possibly more than the people on this site can give because there are so many challenges facing you right now. And each person who answers you answers from their own belief/challenge/situation. So it ends up looking like a tsunami of suggestions and comments and sometimes all out snarkyness.

Yes- You are making steps forward. Sure, it might be two steps forward and one step back. But you are moving. And now you have to make some hard choices -- like going against everything inside you and permanently kicking her to the curb for her own benefit. You can't fix her - no matter how much you love her. But you can fix you. You can continue working with your therapist on why you are having a hard time letting go. On why you want to save her more than she wants to save herself. On how to move forward with your life and leave this particular drama behind. On practical techniques for what to do the next time she calls you (my suggestion? hang up on her and change your phone number. She cant scream at your or make you feel guilty if she can't reach you.)

You are not an unwelcome person. You are a person who has some challenges that are triggers and hot buttons to some of the people reading and they are trying to help from their individual point of view. Some successful - some not so much. That's the risks in a chat room

You ask the same questions over and over -- just like a lot of us do. You want a different answer. But you know which answer is the right one. Now you need to work with your therapist on how to deal with that answer. Like others have said -- take what you can and leave the rest. But do take this part with you because it is what you need more than anything right now......

You tried your best. You need to love you and get back in touch with yourself because you are no good to anyone when your own sanity has been eroded this much.

You are a good person. You know you are. You are an intelligent and caring and strong person. I can tell. This kind of stuff knocks the best people out of their centre. It's not you, it's the crazy.

That's the truth you need to remember.

 

[Sweetpea76]

@ByrnesT if you click on a member's avatar you will see their profile pop-up. There is an option to "ignore".

Everybody is entitled to their opinion, but that doesn't mean you have to listen to it.

 

[Deleted member 12723]

Are you aware of the fact that by crying victim to people here who have been really trying to help point out some things here that you have inadvertenly placed the spotlight on yourself and the people here do know about what the dynamics of what the poor me stance is? I am truly sorry that you are so angry that all you can do is continue to be very vague and point accusations now?

I did not attack you. I was quoting your own words back to in hopes that you would be able to look at the things about yourself that you seem to be blind to. I am not appreciating your generalizations and blanket statements. I may have been mistaken on some points but there was a lot of painful truths in my words as well and I admire you for reading through the whole thing.

I do think that you have an obsession of loving her too much. This kind of love is what kills people. I am not saying that you will do this at all so please do not misunderstand me. I am not saying that you are doing this either so please do not misunderstand. I find your need to defend with vague generalizations your own denial of your part in the equation and I do think also that you need to pay attention to fact that you could experience dire consequences if you do not put in a strong boundary of no contact with her from now on.

I am putting you on ignore.

I really wish you the very best in your desire to get healthy and wish you well.

 

[Hojay]

This thread is a little disturbing to me. @ByrnesT is describing a blantaly abusive relationship and he’s clearly suffering from the real damage and confusion 2.5 years of it have caused. To point out what he should and could have done, as well as all the reasons he himself is to blame isn’t only counterproductive, it’s continuining the damag and confusion he’s already suffering from. It’s one thing to try and weed out how one participates and prolonged these dynamics, it’s another to phrase it in such a way that makes it his fault. The fact that this woman is threatening to call the police is as blatant a form of psychological abuse as any other. I think that needs to be made clear.

What’s been happening here is fairly close to victim blaming. I’d like to know how sufferers would react should a supporter hop over to their section and count the ways in which they were responsible for what’s happened to them.

I’m a supporter on here and watching this thread I’m going to be a little more careful what i do and don’t share. One thing is to get this treatment from our symptomatic sufferers, another is to get it from an anonymous committee.

@ByrnesT what’s been happening here can be educational on many levels (however painful it is.) Your emotional reaction to being told all about yourself (and not in a good way) on here can be a good place to start looking at your reaction to being told these things about yourself by your sufferer. How willing are we to believe things about ourselves we actually know aren’t true? Why do we feel the need to defend ourselves in these moments? All this is a safe space to explore our own reactions and learn from them. As uncomfortable as it may be :(

 

[joeylittle]

@Rain - thread-banned. Re-read my post, please.

(And the next time you put someone on ignore, consider just doing it. Making an entire post in order to be defensive and announce it isn't appropriate for this space on the board.)

Anyone else?

 

[SamRuck]

Maybe it doesn't matter since ByrnesT has said he's done here. And I realize I'm the new guy. But after 30 years in a marriage with my wife, the last 10 years of it we finally are dealing with her early childhood trauma that morphed into dissociative identity disorder (multiple personalities, if you prefer), ByrnesT all I can say is I understand so much of what you AND she are going thru, but it is also possible to make a loving relationship with someone who has major issues. But you will have to adjust your understanding of your goals for the relationship. Neither you nor your loved one is to be blamed, and all the people blaming you or her are NOT helping the situation. It will be hard, but if you truly love her it can be done.

If you want to talk more, I'm more than happy to do so. I wish you well and am sorry for some of the replies both ways (against her and against you) that have been sent your way. I've had to endure the same (both ways), if that's any help.
Sam

 

[ByrnesT]

Before I go from here, I know she cannot read it now but maybe someone could relay the message, @Rain was not the person I was accusing of attacking me. In fact, in this thread I defended her right to have her point of view & say what she felt. I also made it clear I agreed with a lot of what she said. But I also made it clear that she had got an awful lot wrong too.

The fact that she then got so defensive as to call me out as playing the victim card when in fact I am crying out for help here, is quite shocking to me. I am openly admitting my experiences in this relationship has now made me feel really quite unwell. I am not “crazy”, but right now I am in a mess. Surely this is a place where if someone is big enough to put their hands up & say I’m not feeling well, that that should not be then used against them?

Clearly there’s a lot of people here who have read into me defending myself on some aspects here as a sign of arrogance, unwillingness, denial, craziness even maybe.

I have put my hands up to mistakes. I have made efforts to try to change those in my personal life. There’s an awful lot I have to learn to just accept about my ex. I was wrong to believe in her. I’m listening to that now, but I have to learn to believe it. I have an awful lot to learn about myself & why I was attracted to this world in the first place. There are some people here who need to consider that it’s easy to say this stuff to people, but how you say it can make all the difference. The baggage you tag along with some of your advice can be damaging. And yes, sorry to say, but you are not always right either.

All I have done here was deny the parts of my story that I know not to be true. Things that were put across unnecessarily bluntly at times. Using my words back at me to show me my faults is 100% fine. When people are saying things i blatantly know not to be true, the craziness would be to accept that wouldn’t it? I have looked into the eyes of someone lying to me about things I have said & done, things she said & did, for what feels like a lifetime. The only strength I have left is to still not accept that.

I am actually grateful to everyone here. And especially those people who haven’t taken a side here & tried to sift through all this. And there are some people here who have been extremely kind & understanding.

I am going to take a hiatus now, I don’t know what means yet.