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Advice to other male ptsd sufferers

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richard_Grey_Area

Bronze Member
Hey.
If you are reading this then you have probably gone through something, if you haven't then you probably care a lot about someone who did and them going through something counted as you going through something.

To put it simply, you probably see yourself as a kind of victim.

Well, hate to break it to you, but often the worst atrocities are committed by people who have been through things and who see themselves as victims. Carl Panzam, Adolf Hitler, name almost any monster you you will find someone with a story of how they were hurt.
And you, and me.
We could be those monsters - so can women (I know this first hand)
But it's time to be strong - strength is something men like associated with masculinity, so this time embrace the gendered stereotype and be strong. Don't let what happened to you or to someone you care about force you down a path which ends in you looking in the mirror and seeing a monster, or you being the cause of someone else being traumatised and hurt for life.

Think about self respect and think about how you interact with women.

To put things very blatantly, at their crudest, a physical relationship between a man and a woman will go in either of 3 ways.

1) the will have sex when she wants to
2) they won't have sex
3) he will rape her

I am sick of reading about women who were raped by "friends" - please guys, I appeal to you, if your interest in someone is only in having sex with them, don't go the "we'll be friends and then I will change your mind" route. Respect women and for god's sake, respect yourself, you don't need to sneak around.
So yes, you might have a friend and develop different sorts of feelings for her over time - that happens to me often. The truth is that it happens to women too.
But they don't let you know because of the kind of men who fake friendship as a way of getting into women't pants (with consent or not).
You can let a woman know that your feelings have changed, but don't make it sound like "you owe me sex" - maybe tell her "I loved you in one way and I still do, but my feeling for you have grown" or something which makes it sound like you love her more and don't expect something different from her.
When and if a woman wants you, she will let you know (provided she hasn't been so hurt that she feels she can't or that there is something wrong with her).
And please, if your girlfriend/wife/lover who you have had sex with before says that she doesn't want it, she means that she doesn't want it now, not that she doesn't want you.

Please respect yourself and respect men, masculinity, being male - If you do that, you won't ever feel the need to "prove you are a man" - this can be particularly prevalent among men who have been through things, they feel that their "manliness" has been stolen and they need to get it back. Well, you don't need to convince the world by having sex X number of times and telling everyone about it - that doesn't make you "a man", that makes you someone trying too hard. If you're hitting your head against a wall and it hurts, you don't have to convince the world that hitting your head against a wall is ok, you only have to stop. Similarly, if you want to depussify, you don't have to convince the world that your a big silverback gorrilla and not a little bitch, you just have to stop being a pussy.
Best thing you can do is to stop trying to show that you are a man and respect yourself for being one.
If you're going to have sex, let it be because your love the person you are having sex with or because you want physical gratification, not because you want to feel better about yourself or because you want to tell someone about it so they will think you're a man and not a little bitch.
It's not a game you're trying to win, it's not a competition or a way of showing that you are ok. If you need to prove that you're ok, you probably aren't.

Just seriously, be honest with women about what you want from the beginning and be honest about how you feel. The result of this is that (even if it is only to a small degree), women will start to be more comfortable talking about when and how their feeling change and that my friends will be better for all of us.

I am talking to you about this, not because I think you are a rapist, but because I know that if you are here, like me, you are someone who has been through something or someone you care about has and that changed you. If you are here, then like me, you feel that there's something wrong in your life or with you. And it is easy to become obsessed with that to the point where you don't see that you are damaging people around you.

That's my recommendation to you, to stop looking at "a man" as someone who has sex X number of times, as someone who "conquers". Look at being a man as being strong enough to value love, trust and care above your physical and psychological needs, look at being a man as being secure enough to be honest and not needing to lie and cheat your way into someone's pants, look at a being a man as being someone people can look up to, can feel safe around.

If you want sex more than a friend, let the woman know that although having sex doesn't mean you can't be friends, that's what you want. Don't use emotional blackmail or intimidation (there are types different to physical intimidation) and respect yourself enough to walk away.

that's my advice, if you have anything you feel you want to add, please do so, I am happy to hear from you.
 
An okay thread, seems a bit over the top in some parts but in general agreeing.

Only one question, how is it PTSD specific?

As in, it seems more SA specific and let's say written towards people that went through some form of sexual abuse, most probably same gender.

But I do not see a general image towards PTSD as a disorder

Otherwise, the thread is good, and sorry for multiple posts, I forget to write stuff
 
You can let a woman know that your feelings have changed, but don't make it sound like "you owe me sex" - maybe tell her "I loved you in one way and I still do, but my feeling for you have grown" or something which makes it sound like you love her more and don't expect something different from her.
I'm a little confused as to why you are giving the type of male that sexually assaults women, instructions on how best to manipulate them?

If all the guy wants is sex, pretending to actually care about her is not a better thing to do.

Another thing.
The kind of male that rapes women, already know it's wrong to do so. It's not some sort of secret knowledge handed down by women for the day when men can actually understand the strange vocalisations the "wimm'in things" keep making at them.

The kind of male who agree that raping women is wrong, probably started out that way. It wouldn't be a mystery to them either.

So I really don't get the point of these "let's instruct men on how not to rape" things.

Seems more likely to just piss off good men and be ignored by bad men.

Also. What does this have to do with ptsd?
 
Ok, I am going to start with what this has to do with PTSD.
I said that people who have been through things in their life can often focus on that and not on the damage they have caused, further I went on to talk about how some men who have been through things can feel as if they need to somehow 'regain their masculinity' or something.

At no point did I make that claim that anyone who has been traumatised is immediately a rapist.

I just thought (based on interactions I had offline) that it might - just might - be necessary to remind some men that the ideals of "masculinity" many of us adhere to can be damaging to everyone, including us.

I deliberately phrased things provocatively because I wanted to attract attention to an issue I feel is relevant to our society and relevant particular to male PTSD sufferers. This 'need' some men have to 'be a man'.

I was looking for responses. My idea was that the kind of man who said "dude, nobody thinks like that, where did you get this from?" would make me very happy, because he was a genuinely good guy all round who just can't relate to the sort of issues I am talking about, where as the kind of person who got very angry with me and started making death threats, etc... well maybe I was hitting a raw nerve there. My hope was that such a person would stop and think rather than coming to murder me, but... well if people see something they disagree with, some will just react and a few will think about why they disagree with it.

Sorry buddy. This is entirely inappropriate. I don't love the way you think that men who have been hurt will just automatically try to hurt others. Some do. And some women also do. It's not a gendered thing.

I find this post troubling.
Ok, 1) if I thought what you claim I think then I would be calling myself a rapist.
2) I am painfully aware of how women can also do this, I was physically, emotionally and sexually abused by a woman as a child, this is largely the reason you have the pleasure of my company here.
3) no, it's not a gendered thing, it's a part of human nature I hope we can one day mostly move beyond, but I am talking about attitudes which I find more common in men here than in women. Yes, it happens, women do rape or otherwise sexually assault men. Not disagreeing with you there But I for one sincerely doubt that there are many women who do this in some misguided effort to prove to themselves or others that they are a "real woman".
4) I am talking about insecurities about sexuality which some men have here, how they can lead people to engage in behavior which is damaging to others without realising this if this wasn't you I would expect a "dude, nobody thinks like that, where did you get this from?" type reply. I have insecurities about sex and sexuality too, if someone else had posted this I don't know how or if I would have responded. But I am reasonably certain I wouldn't have launched a spirited defence of myself (when I wasn't directly accused of anything) or of men in general.

I would like to continue this discussion if you are willing and not too offended.

PS: Guys, imagine there is a female friend you have:
she is overweight or underweight or she has a big nose or crooked teeth or an annoying laugh whatever it is which you don't find appealing.
Anyway, for whatever reason you like this person but don't find her attractive.
Now imagine that after several years of friendship (buddy-buddy type) she tells you that she thinks that you are attractive or that she has started to feel attracted to you.
How would you feel or respond.

I theorise that few to no men would feel:
- threatened
- affraid
- betrayed
- worried that she is going to rape you
- very upset and worried that if you don't have sex with her you will lose her as a friend and if you do, you will lose her as a friend.

What women have shared with me is that these are not uncommon reactions to women in similar circumstances. This upsets me.
I would ask any female readers of this topic (including the one who just accused me of giving advice to rapists on how to emotionally manipulate women [????!!!!!*]) if I have been misinformed.

* ummmm, no my dearest, no that was in fact not what I was doing.
I suppose I deserve this for phrasing things so provocatively, but if you read what I had to say, I was discussing a situation where there are two friends and the one (male) becomes attracted to the other. I advised that people where honest about their feelings but I asked that they did so in a way which would not be interpreted as a demand.
Since you didn't like my suggestion, I would like to hear from you Neverthesame - how exactly should a man tell a woman that he has begun to find her attractive without coming across as saying "you owe me sex"?
 
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First off, I'm male. I don't care about being misgendered. Just stating which is accurate to my physiology.

Second @somerandomguy summed it up rather well. The line in which you compare male sexual abuse victims to Adolph Hitler was totally inappropriate.

Why do I see manipulation?
You are phrasing your "advice" to the kind of guy who would demand sex from a woman, because for some reson he thinks he's entitled to it.
A guy like that, isn't really her friend now is he?
So your solution to this guy's predicament is to pretend to be caring and safe and cuddly and sweet. Lure her in with false prentices of a caring man who respects women. Using pleasant language to convince her that he is something false, to manipulate her into willingly going to bed with him.
How did I arrive at this conclusion? The kind of guy that needs to be told that "Hey! Bitch! Get on my dick right now!" is offensive to 99% of women. Really shouldn't have a girlfriend. Everyone else already knows that it's offensive. Therefore the only person who is likely to take your "advice" Is the guy who doesn't respect women. Making these guys harder to spot, isn't helping women is it?

There's your answer.

I also think it quite inappropriate to come onto a forum, spouting a bunch of nonsense deliberately looking to offend people. You said yourself that you were hoping someone would send you death threats. Why on gods green earth would you want that?

Just because this a forum on the Internet, doesn't make it safe. The staff here do a fantastic job don't get me wrong, but a sufficiently dedicated person can find your personal information one way or another and make good on their threat.
Don't paint a bullseye on yourself. Bad idea. There are better ways to be an "activist".

There is no desire on my part to join in to a "discussion" with someone who has falsely stated their views for more "clicks". Maybe someone else will want to at some point, but not me.
 
I'm bringing popcorn. (Anybody want some?)

... TLDR I don't think that 'advice' holds much relevance. Either it's things reasonable men already know - and adhere by, or it's things they don't hold interest in, as it's simply common sense for interactions and not applicable in this or that way (not everyone's center of the world is a love interest or a woman), or it's manipulative know-it-all nonsense.
 
Neverthesame, I am sorry if I mis-gendered you.
WE all make assumptions, mine was about your gender.
Yours seem to be about my motivations for posting this and about my character.
I feel that the provocative nature of my posts has led some to react without thinking starting with some rather troubling assumptions and I would like to discuss these if you don't mind.

Firstly, who I am writing to:
I have two words of advice for the kind of man who pretends to be interested in more than sex with a woman so that he can get sex later on, the second of which is "off".
I am writing to men who have undergone some kind of trauma in their lives and who I worry might end up hurting our upsetting people because they get into situations without thinking about what others have been through. My comparison between Hitler and such a man was intentionally absurd, but it illustrates my point well. People who feel that they were hurt or wronged may think of regaining their dignity and self respect in ways which can be damaging to others. I think that it is both relevant and necessary to suggest that men (where appropriate) stop trying to show how 'manly' they are and reconsider what it is to be "a real man".
When you can't see beyond your own pain you are in danger of hurting others. This is something I have written about before in other less provocative ways.

I also don't know what you are defending so vehemently. Really, I am not attacking anyone or accusing anyone of rape, I am talking about our society and about how sometimes men who have suffered trauma might go on to contribute to a problem in an effort to "heal" themselves.

As for this:
Just because this a forum on the Internet, doesn't make it safe. The staff here do a fantastic job don't get me wrong, but a sufficiently dedicated person can find your personal information one way or another and make good on their threat.
Don't paint a bullseye on yourself. Bad idea.
I am going to ignore it since I suppose you will say that I was implying a lot of things about you (I remind you that I was making generalisations here, not pointing at anyone specifically and saying "you did it!"
I think that if you really felt that what I was saying was so offensive and so inappropriate, you would have informed the moderators, not picked a fight with me over this issue.
 
Wow. You seem to be making a whole lot of generalisations and assumptions OP.

And I find the idea of starting a thread offering a load of advice to everyone here when no one has asked for any - just because you think they should hear it because you’ve got it all sussed? - quite strange, tbh.

And deliberately “wording it provocatively” so you get more replies and can then get into arguing the toss about things? Doesn’t really feel in the spirit of the forum to me. But hey...

To put it simply, you probably see yourself as a kind of victim.

A bit of a sweeping statement...Not sure that most people here do particularly consider themselves “victims”?

often the worst atrocities are committed by people who have been through things and who see themselves as victims. Carl Panzam, Adolf Hitler, name almost any monster you you will find someone with a story of how they were hurt.
And you, and me.

Yikes!

Don't let what happened to you or to someone you care about force you down a path which ends in you looking in the mirror and seeing a monster, or you being the cause of someone else being traumatised and hurt for life.

Rather dramatic and making quite an assumption here...but I’m sure all the victims here will heed your words and now ensure that they don’t end up becoming a monster and traumatising others...


Think about self respect and think about how you interact with women.

A bit of a preachy tone but, sure, self-respect and respectful interactions with women...I’m with you on that!

if you want to depussify, you don't have to convince the world that your a big silverback gorrilla and not a little bitch, you just have to stop being a pussy.

Er...so, wait...you are here to tell us we should all respect ourselves and each other but now your message is that if a man needs to “depussify” and “not be a little bitch” he just needs to stop being a pussy? Doesn’t sound massively respectful to other men to me?

Also, if your message is to stop men (or women) from assaulting people...I’m not sure how many perpetrators do it because they are actively trying to “be a man” (slash silverback gorilla)?

I deliberately phrased things provocatively because I wanted to attract attention to an issue

Well...that’s a bit manipulative then. Glad I got drawn into that. Well done!

I was looking for responses

You got me.

My idea was that the kind of man who said "dude, nobody thinks like that, where did you get this from?" would make me very happy, because he was a genuinely good guy all round who just can't relate to the sort of issues I am talking about, where as the kind of person who got very angry with me and started making death threats, etc... well maybe I was hitting a raw nerve there.

Maybe don’t try to manipulate the responses you get and sit in judgment of those responses before people even reply? Strikes me that there might be more room for more genuine and useful discussion and insight that way?


I for one sincerely doubt that there are many women who do this in some misguided effort to prove to themselves or others that they are a "real woman".

Again...I don’t know that most rapists and abusers are trying to prove they are “real men”. I don’t know. Seems to be a strong assumption that you are working on though?

* ummmm, no my dearest, no that was in fact not what I was doing.

Seriously? After all this preaching about respecting women, this is how you respond to a poster - who you took to be female - who disagrees with you? Patronising, condescending and arrogant - hell yes! Respectful of women? You must be joking!

Just thought - are you actually joking? Is this thread meant to be funny?
Because, while I see that you have “serious advice” for people here, it strikes me that there’s just as much “provocation for fun” as there is “serious message”.
 
I think that if you really felt that what I was saying was so offensive
Woah there. No, no, no.

That was in no way an implied threat. While I don't agree with you fundamentally, you're nowhere near bothersome enough for me to do that. You said you were hoping to rile some people up for a discussion. I said be careful.
Asking random people on the Internet to send you death threats, is a bad idea.
Whatever the disagreement, I don't want people to get hurt.

I know this is just a forum post, it's not worth getting violent over. I also know there are wacko's out there who take shit way to seriously.
I'm not one of them. I was speaking from legitimate concern, not hostility.

Hence why I bowed out.
I don't dislike you enough to call you childish names, let alone threaten you. Nope, nope, nope.
This is the last time you will ever hear from me. I want nothing more whatsoever to do with this ever again.
 
God, where did this post go

The fair points this post had were good, and there was some extravagant stuff

To sum up the points I got

If you are a male and feel as if you are not male enough, rather remove behaviour you see as negative, instead of adding behaviour seeking perhaps external validation

Having sex with many women doesn't make you manly

Its more manly to do more serious stuff, be honest and open about yourself, your feelings since it takes courage and strength


This discussion could be nice undee the right wording and better phrasing
 
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