blackemerald1
VIP Member
Why does there have to be winning and losing @enough? Why do you need other ppl to validate what your are sure of? Does all this winning, losing and indifference make a better relationship?
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”she tried to anger me”
- Post starter Justmehere
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Why does there have to be winning and losing @enough? Why do you need other ppl to validate what your are sure of? Does all this winning, losing and indifference make a better relationship?
no. Thats an example of my indifference, where we both lose.
I could have argued that since she is not working she could go tomorrow, I could have said I wanted her to consider that it is safer to plan these things and not have to drive over the limit to get what she wants, she would say i never support her in her projects, tell me I'm an asshole for not wanting her to have the freedom to go wherever whenever, but I just let it be what it is and what it was was a ticket.
could have been me getting angry, then she would feel like it was all my fault that she was driving erratically in the first place, me being such an angry guy and all. Thats probably the storyline anyway, I probably would have gotten angry if she would have left earlier, I might have found a reason to get angry if she had waited too. I have no idea, but I doubt anyone that knows about the ticket knows it was due to bad planning and lack of concern for her own safety or our finances.
An example of her trying to anger me would be smoking a cigarette outside the open window when we have a huge manicured landscape with shady benches and decks and she knows i dont even like following a smoker in traffic. I forget what I did to deserve that. She tries to anger me. I try to manage it.
there are people that try to get others mad and angry, like thats the only way they think they can win. I actually enjoy a good debate, even if I am losing it is at least an education- with a reasonable, articulate person. I can't understand why anyone would rather just try to provoke anger and consider that winning, but they are out there and I am married to one.
If I get angry I lose. Thats a fact, in the eyes of my wife, my friends, the law, my self. Why does she try to win by making me lose? Hell, I wish I knew that answer.
I know what you are getting at, why cant there be discussion and agreement and give and take and a final decision that benefits everyone including both parties? Again, I wish it was so. Agreements get broken and when there is no defense for the broken agreement, she tries to anger me. She has said as much in front of a counselor, she lies to placate me, she breaks agreements because they were made in an attempt to keep me from getting angry, and when she breaks them and I get angry it just adds momentum to the cycle.
I try to keep from getting angry, I have lots of opportunities to hone the skill. Pretty f'n good at it.
Does all this make a better relationship? I wish I could find a way to make this a better relationship. I try everyday to make the best of it. I know about a thousand ways to make it worse, getting angry is at the top of that list. She is who she is, and i took a vow.
No shit folks, she tries to anger me. I can see the OP being suspicious of a person that says that, and don't fault the opinion one bit, but there is another side to the story and I live over here and have for a very long time.
EveHarrington
VIP Member
But at the end of the day, you choose to stay, you choose to have this dynamic play out in your daily life.
The OP is saying “no thank you” to someone who has an anger problem, someone who uses the “she angers me” excuse.
Well, I guess if you think it's an excuse, thats your decision and as I said, I don't fault the op (or you) for thinking it. I have been wrong about things and it was hard to convince me otherwise, but I was wrong. My opinion....yeah, maybe that wasn't a good thing to share when meeting the OP for the first time, maybe it is an excuse for bad behaviour, maybe it is off of page one of the abusers handbook, shifting blame to the abused. I saw the name of the thread, it rang a chord in me and I replied, I have said that line myself, "she tries to anger me". In a counselors office, to a therapist, and now here on a PTSD help website, but not as an excuse for my anger or to introduce myself to someone I wanted to get to know, ever. never.
maybe you think because I opened up and shared a bit of what goes on over here you think you have seen the real me, an abuser with all the earmarks. Sorry no......PTSD sufferer, caused by an unreasonable tyrranical stepmother driving home her cult like religious views, yes, maybe I replaced her by marrying an unreasonable woman that puts her own beleifs and desires over those of anyone elses, yes, and maybe she has found that making others angry is a way to gain an upper hand without having to lay out a clear argument using logic and reason to make it OK to do whatever she wants without concern for anyone else. Yes. Abuser? This long? Nope. She would have sued me for divorce long ago.
I married young. And stoned. been sober thirty years, worked my job thirty years, owned my home thirty years. Married 36 (I think, I don't really celebrate it and like I said I was pretty self medicated at the time). We raised 3 great kids in spite of the lack of trust and integrity, they love her but they get it.
If I was single and dating, thats what I would say about it. I was devoted to my ex wife, and she was hard to stay devoted to, end of story. But I am not single, i am devoted, I took a vow, and she does try to anger me. At the end of the day I choose to stay....and not get angry when a lesser man would.
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- #30
Justmehere
Sponsor
@enough - She seems like a bit of a boundary pusher, perhaps a bit passive aggressive. That’s hard to deal with.
Let's say she is trying to make you angry on purpose just to piss you off. Her behavior and her emotions are 100% her responsibility.
Your behavior and your emotions are 100% your responsibility.
Anger in and of itself isn't wrong. It isn't right. It just is. What we do with anger is what matters.
In my situation, the person has a self professed problem with rage. He doesn't take responsibility for management of his own rage himself. He blames the other person 100%. He places all the control and responsibility for his emotions on someone else. That's the problem. It's not just that he said "she tries to anger me," but that this was an excuse for him to relapse back into rage.
Your wife, again let's say she does try to make you angry. It is a lose-lose thing for her to do. But, if you excused rage, which is acting out anger with aggression, by saying it's her fault because she tries to make you angry... that's a different thing. I'm not saying you actually do that. It does seem like you actually take responsibility for being the best man you can be and managing your own reaction and response to her -- which means you do the opposite of what an abuser does. The opposite of the man in the situation I posted about.
Does that make sense?
And kudos to you for all the work you must have to do to manage your response to what she does.
Let's say she is trying to make you angry on purpose just to piss you off. Her behavior and her emotions are 100% her responsibility.
Your behavior and your emotions are 100% your responsibility.
Anger in and of itself isn't wrong. It isn't right. It just is. What we do with anger is what matters.
In my situation, the person has a self professed problem with rage. He doesn't take responsibility for management of his own rage himself. He blames the other person 100%. He places all the control and responsibility for his emotions on someone else. That's the problem. It's not just that he said "she tries to anger me," but that this was an excuse for him to relapse back into rage.
Your wife, again let's say she does try to make you angry. It is a lose-lose thing for her to do. But, if you excused rage, which is acting out anger with aggression, by saying it's her fault because she tries to make you angry... that's a different thing. I'm not saying you actually do that. It does seem like you actually take responsibility for being the best man you can be and managing your own reaction and response to her -- which means you do the opposite of what an abuser does. The opposite of the man in the situation I posted about.
Does that make sense?
And kudos to you for all the work you must have to do to manage your response to what she does.
@Justmehere
If I was perfect it would be a non point. I still get angry. I get livid. at times.
I am able to save the outward anger for times that are all about clear danger and dangerous actions on her part. In the example I used, i chose not to argue the point when she wanted to make a 15 minute trip in 15 minutes or less and got a speeding ticket. If she had been drinking it would have raised my deepest anger and I would have ended up throwing car keys on the roof (again) or something up to and including calling a cop.
there are limitations.
I havent been perfect but I have decided that not getting angry is probably the highest paying job I will ever have considering the option is an expensive divorce and a lifetime of wishing things were different but having ZERO chance of making it so.
I have other things to do with the rest of my life, getting and being angry is not what I call a good use. Sad that she thinks being in conflict and refusing to maintain a level of integrity is a way to live but she does, i am not a willing accomplice. She knows that, but still, she tries to anger me.
last time I say that outside my therapists office. another lesson learned. done with this.
If I was perfect it would be a non point. I still get angry. I get livid. at times.
I am able to save the outward anger for times that are all about clear danger and dangerous actions on her part. In the example I used, i chose not to argue the point when she wanted to make a 15 minute trip in 15 minutes or less and got a speeding ticket. If she had been drinking it would have raised my deepest anger and I would have ended up throwing car keys on the roof (again) or something up to and including calling a cop.
there are limitations.
I havent been perfect but I have decided that not getting angry is probably the highest paying job I will ever have considering the option is an expensive divorce and a lifetime of wishing things were different but having ZERO chance of making it so.
I have other things to do with the rest of my life, getting and being angry is not what I call a good use. Sad that she thinks being in conflict and refusing to maintain a level of integrity is a way to live but she does, i am not a willing accomplice. She knows that, but still, she tries to anger me.
last time I say that outside my therapists office. another lesson learned. done with this.
EveHarrington
VIP Member
You assume I’m thinking you’re abusive?
No.
That’s not the direction I was going in the least.
I think if you assume people are going to think you’re abusive, then this must be a fear of yours. Have you been accused of being abusive in the past? Or maybe you know you’ve been abusive in the past because of your anger. Either way, it’s probably something to explore in therapy.
But again, I wasn’t assuming you were abusive, not in the least.
- Post starter
- #33
Justmehere
Sponsor
@enough - Even though you’ve made mistakes (haven’t we all?), you’ve done good to keep up the good fight to recover. Don’t quit now.
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Innordinate
VIP Member
Not common for people who rage, definitely common for narcissistic personalities.
Muttly
Diamond Member
I know you've already gotten a lot of opinions on this, so if I'm too late to the party just disregard.
My mom used to intentionally anger my dad. My dad was a rotten guy. I never saw him physically abuse my mom but he could certain treat her like crap in other ways. So, I'm not trying to paint him as a victim here. Having said that, my mom used to pick and pick and say things and do things she knew would push him into anger. She'd then be all hurt and victim-ish. I asked her flat out why she was doing that. We had the conversation more than once. She didn't deny what she was doing. She said it could be fun and said she was "teasing the tiger.". If you'd seen the glint in her eyes when she talked about that, you'd have no doubt that she got something out of it.
Reading through the posts though, @Justmehere, I am glad you trusted your instincts and did what is right for you.
My mom used to intentionally anger my dad. My dad was a rotten guy. I never saw him physically abuse my mom but he could certain treat her like crap in other ways. So, I'm not trying to paint him as a victim here. Having said that, my mom used to pick and pick and say things and do things she knew would push him into anger. She'd then be all hurt and victim-ish. I asked her flat out why she was doing that. We had the conversation more than once. She didn't deny what she was doing. She said it could be fun and said she was "teasing the tiger.". If you'd seen the glint in her eyes when she talked about that, you'd have no doubt that she got something out of it.
Reading through the posts though, @Justmehere, I am glad you trusted your instincts and did what is right for you.
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blackemerald1
VIP Member
@enough - does your wife go to any type of therapy?
Why do you think she provokes you?
What do you do with your anger and frustration when she does provoke you?
Why do you think she provokes you?
What do you do with your anger and frustration when she does provoke you?
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