General What are they thinking?

[Mumo]

When a sufferer isolates and has cut off a loved one completely, do they ever miss that person or feel sad because they pushed them away? Also, do you ever think about what you did and feel guilty or upset for hurting that person? I just wanted to know if this ever occurs asymptomatic or symptomatic. Thanks.

When I begin to freak out (that's what I call it, for myself) I must isolate myself. If you come near me or push me, I will hurt you emotionally. I'm going through something in my head that you cannot help me with. Not only that, it's like I'm in the place, in the moment. If I have to deal with the outside world, then I have to prepare myself to do it, and I'll do it. For example store, gas for the car, work, important function, etc. If something is casual, I can do it, for a short amount of time, but it makes me angry to HAVE to deal with this stuff. BUT, with a loved one, I can't deal with you. You want and expect too much. The way you look at me, touching me, (hugs) the emotion behind your words....no, no, no. I am extremely in tune to my environment. I've had to be. I've had to make choices in my life based on what was happening around me and to me. I've chosen one trauma over another. I have had to be on high alert and walk on eggshells or I would suffer. I've had to read expressions accurately, if not I would have suffered more and have, because I didn't. I'm very aware of body language, things out if place and sounds. I'm aware of my own body language, my own breathing, any sound I make. I try to protect myself at all times. (These things are constant, but are amplified 100 times when I'm symptomatic) the loved one(s) need to leave me alone. They add more stress to me because they know me too well and I can't hide. They love me and want to help me. I can't deal with that. They are not helping me. You cannot help me. You must let me deal with it. Any text, look, message must be as casual as it can be, so you don't pile on anymore than I can deal with, and then go away. I'm not an unfeeling person, I realize that I'm hurting you and I do feel guilty, and I have to deal with that later, but I can't help it. If you can understand that, that helps me. The best thing, for me, is once I'm done freaking out, to say nothing about it. To just accept me casually back into whatever is going on, that I have been (absent) from. That makes me feel like you accept me for who I am. And it is a relief to me that you don't hate me.

 

[NaeNae75]

@NaeNae75 I echo your sentiments. My vet makes the decision to isolate based on his thought process. Makes a mountain out of a minor issue and or one that isn't even there. His I can't give you this, you deserve better than me, this won't work for a million reasons. Always the runaway anxiety mind racing a million miles an hour. Compounding the fear and causing a cascade of negative thoughts and fears. He uses the "I will sabotage this before it gets me. Because I want the best for you" tactic. Much like combat, get the enemy before it gets you.
I understand the anxiety part. I have anxiety. Also the negative tape that plays in his head of the worse case scenario and never the positive. Im a child abuse survivor.
I was wondering if at anytime the sufferer thought back and realized what their actions caused in the supporter. Do they ever miss us and the positive memories?
I never isolated like he does. Mine was a complete shutdown and wanting to hide away behind a locked door from everyone in peace and quiet. Trying to process all the thoughts. Short lived shut out of the noise so to speak.I felt guilty about my angry outbursts and would apologize. Felt ashamed of my behavior.
I just am at a loss with his isolation and fears. Trying to figure out if he just closes off all memories and feelings and it just doesn't cross his mind again??

Yep...Pretty close to what I hear as well. Before his son and me, he admits he would go grocery shopping for supplies then lock himself away from the world for a week/weeks at a time. But now he realizes he can't because he's got sole custody of his son. I've been "mom" for the last 8.5 years. Needless to say, his isolation isn't quite what it used to be because now it has to be "functional isolation"...ie, from me mostly. But I'm the one thing he can remove from his stress cup safely, because I don't leave...and as far as he's concerned, I don't melt down.

I would say that the only thing I would say to you is please be careful about your thoughts of why...because that molehill, may in fact be placed at the top of the mountain for him. The proverbial straw, if you will. Something that seems like nothing to us, and them if their stress cup isn't full, can be HUGE when it is. Just kind of the way it is. I'm sure you get that, but you're just frustrated.

Now, when my fella "comes back" the quickest way to send him running back to the hills is to bring back up what put him there to begin with. He already feels guilty, so I don't feel the need to drill it home. There are times we talk about strategizing to lessen the "next one" but that's different. Guilt already plays a big part. The reality is, they may be too numb to be able to feel anything about it.

It's unfortunate, but true. It is justified to them, because they needed it....period. Since you know that this is who they are, it's one of those things you have to decide if you can live with or not. Either answer for you is the right one. You are completely free to choose what you can live with. But you won't be able to change them....that doesn't get to be part of the deal. You can make requests, you can have input, but the reality is, they can't/won't change until they're ready. You're also allowed to change your mind at any point.

The number one rule for both sides is, the only person/thing you can control is yourself and your reactions. It may stink, but it's true. That's why I also don't accept the "it was the best thing for both of us" argument. That is also not true. But what is true is they need the isolation, for whatever reason, and you can only decide if you can live with it or not.

I'm sorry if that doesn't seem helpful, but it's the only way to be able to survive long term on this side of it. It hurts, but it wasn't intended too. (Unless the person is an a-hole...then dump em for being an a-hole). I know my guy pushes because he thinks its for me, but I just let him. I tell him, I don't accept that it's for me and he can isolate/leave because it's what he wants and I won't control that. But I stand up that it's my choice to still be in it on my half. I tell him he doesn't get to choose for me. So, every time, I make it CLEAR it's for him. I do not accept ANY responsibility for his decision. That allows me to be in control of my side of the decision.

 

[HopefulD]

Yep...Pretty close to what I hear as well. Before his son and me, he admits he would go grocery shopping for supplies then lock himself away from the world for a week/weeks at a time. But now he realizes he can't because he's got sole custody of his son. I've been "mom" for the last 8.5 years. Needless to say, his isolation isn't quite what it used to be because now it has to be "functional isolation"...ie, from me mostly. But I'm the one thing he can remove from his stress cup safely, because I don't leave...and as far as he's concerned, I don't melt down.

I would say that the only thing I would say to you is please be careful about your thoughts of why...because that molehill, may in fact be placed at the top of the mountain for him. The proverbial straw, if you will. Something that seems like nothing to us, and them if their stress cup isn't full, can be HUGE when it is. Just kind of the way it is. I'm sure you get that, but you're just frustrated.

Now, when my fella "comes back" the quickest way to send him running back to the hills is to bring back up what put him there to begin with. He already feels guilty, so I don't feel the need to drill it home. There are times we talk about strategizing to lessen the "next one" but that's different. Guilt already plays a big part. The reality is, they may be too numb to be able to feel anything about it.

It's unfortunate, but true. It is justified to them, because they needed it....period. Since you know that this is who they are, it's one of those things you have to decide if you can live with or not. Either answer for you is the right one. You are completely free to choose what you can live with. But you won't be able to change them....that doesn't get to be part of the deal. You can make requests, you can have input, but the reality is, they can't/won't change until they're ready. You're also allowed to change your mind at any point.

The number one rule for both sides is, the only person/thing you can control is yourself and your reactions. It may stink, but it's true. That's why I also don't accept the "it was the best thing for both of us" argument. That is also not true. But what is true is they need the isolation, for whatever reason, and you can only decide if you can live with it or not.

I'm sorry if that doesn't seem helpful, but it's the only way to be able to survive long term on this side of it. It hurts, but it wasn't intended too. (Unless the person is an a-hole...then dump em for being an a-hole). I know my guy pushes because he thinks its for me, but I just let him. I tell him, I don't accept that it's for me and he can isolate/leave because it's what he wants and I won't control that. But I stand up that it's my choice to still be in it on my half. I tell him he doesn't get to choose for me. So, every time, I make it CLEAR it's for him. I do not accept ANY responsibility for his decision. That allows me to be in control of my side of the decision.

@NaeNae75 thanks for your input. It seriously helps to know I am here because I WANT TO BE. Not because I feel obligated or think I can fix him. It helps to know it's okay to have empathy and compassion and still remain true to myself. ?

 

[NaeNae75]

I'm sorry @NaeNae75 , didn't mean to offend. :(:sorry:

I;m sorry I have no time to address it properly, and you deserve that, just must go to work, I know people shouldn't think for others, I meant: best for the sufferer, or in the mind of the same sufferer, best, they can believe, for the supporter-when the sufferer cares about them, not just themself.

Oh dear, I'm sorry if I came off as offended. I'm just outspoken. I'm not offended in the least! I like the exchange, personally! If you meant best for the sufferer, I agree...and that's perfectly okay for them to have their own needs.

I feel really bad for making you think I was angry, I'm not. I just want to be as clear as possible for both sides. I really hope you don't feel bad on my account! I promise I wasn't the least bit offended by your comment. I also don't want to force my opinion on anyone. EVERYONE has a right to their own opinion! Each and every one of us!!!! I believe in that more than I believe in anything else. The problem is that I'm just "wordy". LOL

Don't pull your head into the sand on my account! I appreciate you expressing your view...it's super healthy! Hugs if you accept them!!!

 

[NaeNae75]

When I begin to freak out (that's what I call it, for myself) I must isolate myself. If you come near me or push me, I will hurt you emotionally. I'm going through something in my head that you cannot help me with. Not only that, it's like I'm in the place, in the moment. If I have to deal with the outside world, then I have to prepare myself to do it, and I'll do it. For example store, gas for the car, work, important function, etc. If something is casual, I can do it, for a short amount of time, but it makes me angry to HAVE to deal with this stuff. BUT, with a loved one, I can't deal with you. You want and expect too much. The way you look at me, touching me, (hugs) the emotion behind your words....no, no, no. I am extremely in tune to my environment. I've had to be. I've had to make choices in my life based on what was happening around me and to me. I've chosen one trauma over another. I have had to be on high alert and walk on eggshells or I would suffer. I've had to read expressions accurately, if not I would have suffered more and have, because I didn't. I'm very aware of body language, things out if place and sounds. I'm aware of my own body language, my own breathing, any sound I make. I try to protect myself at all times. (These things are constant, but are amplified 100 times when I'm symptomatic) the loved one(s) need to leave me alone. They add more stress to me because they know me too well and I can't hide. They love me and want to help me. I can't deal with that. They are not helping me. You cannot help me. You must let me deal with it. Any text, look, message must be as casual as it can be, so you don't pile on anymore than I can deal with, and then go away. I'm not an unfeeling person, I realize that I'm hurting you and I do feel guilty, and I have to deal with that later, but I can't help it. If you can understand that, that helps me. The best thing, for me, is once I'm done freaking out, to say nothing about it. To just accept me casually back into whatever is going on, that I have been (absent) from. That makes me feel like you accept me for who I am. And it is a relief to me that you don't hate me.

I hear you! I believe this is how he feels too. I try to be casual...as casual as possible. I try my best to understand. I try my best to let him be free while I "hold down the fort". I'm actually pretty okay with it too. Sometimes it makes me feel strong, and I don't always get to feel strong! Some of us "get it". Especially some of us "lifers". I guess that's how I see myself. I try not to let the "temporary freak out" destroy our life. We don't hate you. Those of us that understand....don't take it personally.

The best thing I learned in my own therapy out of suggested co dependence, is that I can only control me. The best way for me to deal with others, at least the ones I love...is to just love and accept them for who they are, flaws and all....then maybe they'll accept me back, flaws and all....

I don't really feel the need to rehash all of it on his re arrival, because I just want to bask in the joy of his return, so to speak. I feel that the act of returning, says it all to me. I said before, that I'm going to start equating these "episodes" to deployment....then when he returns, I can feel the same as when he returns from them. Like when people we love come home from vacation, and we meet them with signs, flowers, and pretty dresses at the airport. I guess maybe I'm a hopeless romantic, but it helps me survive.

Some days can be a fight/struggle, but reading your side of the story like this, melts my heart completely! Thank you!

 

[NaeNae75]

@NaeNae75 thanks for your input. It seriously helps to know I am here because I WANT TO BE. Not because I feel obligated or think I can fix him. It helps to know it's okay to have empathy and compassion and still remain true to myself. ?

Oh good! I'm glad you feel that way! It's so hard to be left alone to feel that way in today's society. Even in my "support group" that I'm likely taking a vacation from for a while...I felt judged for being willing to let "him do him" for the time being. So what if it might not work out...because it might. In the meantime, I'll be thinner, stronger, richer, and have a cleaner house to come home to, lol!!! I ALWAYS take this time for self improvement.

I think the real key is finding out where the line is between support and enabling. It's pretty blurry sometimes, but it is there. Everyone acts like I have my head in the sand and I'm in "denial" over my "breakup". Honestly, does ANYTHING I post on this website look like I'm in denial???!!!! I really don't think so. I'm painfully aware of the realness of it all. But I choose not to let any of this ruin my great love affair.

You see, if he never gets healthy enough to "come back", by living it and loving him this way, I still get to have a beautiful ending...even if it's a "tragic" one. I get to feel loved, and worthy of love this way. I just accept that his love is MIA right now...maybe it will return, maybe it won't....but it surely won't if I leave and am a bitter person upon my departure.

If after he tells me he's depressed, and feels I'm worth so much more than him, and he has warm loving thoughts and nothing but respect for me as a woman...my response is cruel, than it says WAY more about me than him. If I choose to stay, but at a safe and healthy distance, living my own life to the fullest...than my chances of being a "soft place to land" increases our chances. If I choose to leave, but I do so honoring our love was beautiful, but we had separate roads to follow with peace and well wishes....I'm still a heroine. I'm choosing whatever I do, to be with LOVE, because that leads me to the best path for MY LIFE either way.

I think taking the road less traveled comes with it's own rewards. I know who this man is after almost 9 years of being by his side in both a partner and friend capacity. I know without a doubt that he's worth the effort and a little bit of pain. I've given my pain to too many people that didn't deserve it, why not take a chance on giving it to the man I consider my soulmate? This is how I survive. I know that it's likely torture for us to go do things together with the kids right now....but he still makes the effort. So I try to do my part by staying loving, but casual. Just friendly.

He always shows me, one way or another, when he's ready for reintegration. Until he does, I have to keep my distance. This is the hardest part, because all I want is to love on him. But I've learned to do it in my mind. I choose to see the fact he's even there as the most loving thing he's capable of....it might in fact be torture to him, but he endures it for the rest of us. Do you see how the mindset and being mindful just leads to your feelings being completely different?

Misery loves company. So, I'm choosing to "tune out" all of the people that tell me that he's who I should bail on. Those women I've been seeing every Monday for the last year....yep, you're opinion is not more important to me than he is....estranged family members...suck it, he's more important. Naysayers beware! If you tell me to shut him out....you're the one getting the axe! LOL, I don't know why, but the thought of that makes me giggle and feel super empowered right now!

 

[solemn93]

Everyone acts like I have my head in the sand and I'm in "denial" over my "breakup"

I imagine alot of supporters get this reaction from friends and family. I'm in awe of you for being strong for 9 years.

 

[NaeNae75]

I imagine alot of supporters get this reaction from friends and family. I'm in awe of you for being strong for 9 years.

Yeah, I suppose it's pretty common place especially in today's day and age. I don't know how much "awe" there should be, lol. I guess that the other side of it is, he's been very good to me over the years. I had 3 brain surgeries. He took off work and took care of me for the second two. (we had just started dating when I had the first one). My own family never came, but he did. He made me a priority. He also is the one that helped guide me towards restarting my own mental health journey. Maybe it was because it was easier to get me to do it first, but regardless, it helped me a lot.

He has always made me feel like I'm strong and smart. Most of the time he made me feel beautiful too. It hasn't always been rainbows and sunshine but it's always been genuine. I love just talking to him. Having him around makes me feel secure. So really, I guess I'm "being strong", because he's earned it. He helped create my ability to feel strong. I guess it just makes sense that I utilize it to maintain our relationship.

 

[Freida]

So, every time, I make it CLEAR it's for him. I do not accept ANY responsibility for his decision. That allows me to be in control of my side of the decision.

Yes! This!

BUT, with a loved one, I can't deal with you. You want and expect too much. The way you look at me, touching me, (hugs) the emotion behind your words....no, no, n

And yes! This too!

 

[grimalkin]

The best thing I learned in my own therapy out of suggested co dependence, is that I can only control me. The best way for me to deal with others, at least the ones I love...is to just love and accept them for who they are, flaws and all....then maybe they'll accept me back, flaws and all....

This has been my lesson over the last...oh my goodness, almost 2 years...When my sufferer "ended" things, I was in the midst of my own crisis, and I needed his support. I didn't have his support (because he had been triggered, blamed me, stress on top of stress on top of stress happened, and so he got rid of me), so it forced me to take a good, hard look at my own crap.

I started therapy for myself, and am on my own journey of healing now, and realize I'm the only person I *can* heal. I'm trying to escape and reprogram a lifetime of training to be codependent.

It's been one of the hardest things I've done, and I refuse to give up on me.

Meanwhile, my sufferer and I still do fun things together all the time. I can relate with the "no serious discussions" thing - I realize at some point we will HAVE to talk, but for now, the only people who need to "define" our relationship is us - and that can be done at our own pace.

 

[Tinyflame]

I feel really bad for making you think I was angry, I'm not.

Oh no! :( I don't want you to feel badly @NaeNae75 , and I'm glad it didn't offend you, I seem to have hurt plenty irl lately. :(

I won't carry on here but I will try to say only one thing, despite the fact it's through my myopic perspective colored by my own thoughts, beliefs and experiences. Which, however, I've had decades to think on, as regards ptsd.

I relate to this:

I am extremely in tune to my environment. I've had to be. I've had to make choices in my life based on what was happening around me and to me. I've chosen one trauma over another. I have had to be on high alert and walk on eggshells or I would suffer. I've had to read expressions accurately, if not I would have suffered more and have, because I didn't. I'm very aware of body language, things out if place and sounds. I'm aware of my own body language, my own breathing, any sound I make. I try to protect myself at all times. (These things are constant, but are amplified 100 times when I'm symptomatic) ... I'm not an unfeeling person, I realize that I'm hurting you and I do feel guilty, and I have to deal with that later, but I can't help it.

Whether it be relationships, or work, or whatever; there can be stress-stress-stress, then one day you can't stand it any more. That includes self-imposed stress. Not intentional, but needless to say devastating.

Best for who in this scenario? The sufferer or supporter? I think here enlies the biggest disconnect of this entire conversation.

^^ I think when it comes to relationships there is something that's rarely mentioned: somewhere there can be cognitive dissonance between what needs 'fixing' and 'acceptance', ie I accept 'you', but your behaviour hurts me; "you (the sufferer) can't 'help' all of it, I accept that, but why won't you (X- whatever is thought to help). Why can't we be logical together"- but this is a disorder in many ways on a day-to-day-moment-by-moment basis of response- fight/ flight/ freeze- reaction not logic. . But as @Mumo said, not necessarily intentional, and leaves a sufferer with guilt, too. Why disappointing someone can be crushing. And even knowing, say that 5% of the population has ptsd (random figure, not meant for scientific fact), well 95% of other people don't- and life for a supporter would be easier, more fulflling, and (x- fill in the blank) with one of the 95%. And they- as a great partner- deserve more, they deserve the best. They deserve simpler, happier. They deserve their dreams fulfilled.

The best way for me to deal with others, at least the ones I love...is to just love and accept them for who they are, flaws and all....then maybe they'll accept me back, flaws and all....

^^I think (JMHO) this is the funny thing about love; it is a mirror between people. Which is why it's easy to give (no expectation) and can be hard to receive. Because people always think of mirrors positively, but in reality they reveal all, the good the bad and the ugly. When people love each other they see reflected back what is best- and worst- about themself. Along with goodness they may not know they have, they can see (or experience- and the key is not blaming someone else for their experience) all that is unloving; unselfish; or in any other way not good for another person. Or perhaps 'good' is a poor choice of words: joyful, fulfilling, loving; what makes them feel secure and loved (and is absent, even by virtue of ptsd alone). I think, inherently, we may not know what love is, but we know what are unloving words, actions, and choices towards another person. So it can be intended to be a loving act, to not accept that love.

I think dialogue, perhaps honestly of fears and thoughts, is a place to begin. Because really, if it didn't bother you, you wouldn't be here on the forum. But if it didn't bother you at all, you might not care much at all, either, and ironically those kinds of relationships no sufferer has to flee from, because there is nothing loving about them.

I guess I'm "being strong", because he's earned it. He helped create my ability to feel strong.

I would say he held up a mirror and enabled you to see your own strength, that was always there. And being who he was/ is or how your relationship is, you had the courage to look.

Friday said it in another post, that (for some of us) we can be more or do more when we 'see' ourselves through the eyes of someone else. That is not co-dependence; co-dependence is not knowing where you begin and they end. Which is very different than feeling 'you complete me', which really is you allow me to see myself more fully, or realize who I am already.

If that makes sense. Probably a stupid way to put it. :(

Hugs to you, xox.

 

[Freida]

If that makes sense. Probably a stupid way to put it. :(

I thought it was pretty brilliant....