Question for people who identify with not having a father

[Tinyflame]

Yes I think as humans we think of closure as relief. I feel in some ways it is, but it's integrated, not removed (sorry can't find the words :rolleyes::( ).

Those are all good questions @Self.In.Progress . I'm sorry I wasn't clear- I sort of meant in terms of context 'one' of those (or something else)- as each person's situation is different (some if not all of those are a bit mutually exclusive to one another).

As @TruthSeeker said, not to live repeating it. Self-care, self-preservation, self-kindness, healthy choices.

And as @Warrior Chicken said, some situations aside from death, further communication of that sort is taken away. And there are the roles of others. But in his case, he is giving much acceptance and forgiveness, and moving on himself, best he can, without rancor.

Whatever works for you. :hug:

 

[Rose White]

Whatever works for you. :hug:

How about I try all of them and then get some extra credit for retrying the ones that don’t work? ?‍

Or imagine trying them while analyzing all the feelings of resistance that arise? ?

As @TruthSeeker said, not to live repeating it.

Technically staying in bed all day also counts as not repeating it! But I guess it also repeats the helpless feeling, the trapped feeling, the frozen feeling.

I don’t know if this meets criteria of “not having relationship with father”.

It does from a different perspective. It sounds like you believe your dad would have done better if your mom hadn’t treated him badly and if he didn’t have dementia. So he’s gone, but you believe in his humanity and that he tried or would have tried to do good given the right environment.

It’s probably important for me to recognize my dad’s humanity at some point in the grief process.

giving much acceptance and forgiveness, and moving on himself, best he can, without rancor.

Like this. And how @TruthSeeker remembered the moments where their dad actually helped them or made good food.

It helps to see that as a stage beyond the anger. No need to face it now, unless I want to, which I don’t.

I think it helps to understand that “having no father” has different and important causes, which people have helped me see.

Some loved him when he was present or somewhere along the way but now their father is gone. For some, there never was a physical presence of father at all. For some there was a physical presence but no emotional presence of father. I would expect there are other causes too.

I fit in the third category, no emotional presence, but also I didn’t see the abuse because I wanted to believe he had my best interests at heart. The abuse and manipulation were his primary emotional engagements with me, and that wasn’t okay but it took me a while to figure it out.

Pretty sure I need to face the anger. Funny how intellectualizing it makes it go away! “I shall process my anger now with this fine stick by flaying it upon my mattress in a strong fashion!” ?

 

[Tinyflame]

Or imagine trying them while analyzing all the feelings of resistance that arise?

Lol. Yes well I just meant to name it can help doing something about it.

not repeating it

I mean choosing the same behavioral patterns in another in order to re-enact them and change the ending, or because it is familiar, but not healthy/ not helpful.

It’s probably important for me to recognize my dad’s humanity at some point in the grief process.

Definitely. As it is your own.

Some loved him when he was present or somewhere along the way but now their father is gone. For some, there never was a physical presence of father at all. For some there was a physical presence but no emotional presence of father. I would expect there are other causes too.

That is what I mean- not having a father is different from never having a father. Having a non-communicative father is different from a deployed father (though they too may be non-communicative). Some instances there is not one- that is very, very different than the quality of the interaction or communication. And all the variables: physical health, mental, emotional, and all the stressors- financial, physical, etc. Big pressure to be a healthy/ good 'x'- mom/ dad/ wife/ H/ sibling/ friend, etc. Especially if you lack the tools. :(

Abuse and manipulation is never right. From anyone. :( Doesn't matter, naming it is that- abuse. Might make you feel you didn't have a father, but very different from someone who doesn't have a father- the ways it impacts are different. (By analogy, like a person saying I'm having a PTSD, or ADD, or OCD, or Senior moment, who doesn't have PTSD/ ADD/ OCD, or dementia.)

I say this only as an old lady able to compare the differences between death; neglect; physical abuse; emotional abuse; required absences; non-required absences, etc. :laugh: But in seriousness, IMHE they are not comparable. Nor are lives: for one person putting a roof over a head and food on the table is love- and frankly it is. And many do without, and there's no doubt how difficult it can be to do, or to do without, when you're the one trying to do it. So it can mean there are big holes in hearts and otherwise left behind, but all I know is I can only be responsible for myself, ie, what are my responsibilities as they interconnect with others' lives, and have impacts on them, as others have or have had on mine. (Just look at the supporter section... :( )

PS, it's ok to be angry. Especially if you can identify what pain in you the anger represents. That's progress, and lucky not to be a type who stuffs your feelings. ???

 

[Rose White]

I just meant to name it can help doing something about it.

Yes, words matter, and naming the problem does help.

abuse. Might make you feel you didn't have a father, but very different from someone who doesn't have a father

I didn’t consider that claiming I don’t have a father could be hurtful to people who loved their father who is no longer present or longed for a father who never showed up. Beyond it being hurtful to others, I see your point that it’s just not true. You are right that I had a dad even if he didn’t behave the way I thought he should.

for one person putting a roof over a head and food on the table is love- and frankly it is.

Hmmm... not sure I agree. The government can put a roof over my head and food on my table, that’s not love. However, I think I understand your point...

there's no doubt how difficult it can be to do, or to do without, when you're the one trying to do it.

This felt painful to read and I know that’s not your intent, but my interpretation is that I need to feel grateful for my dad’s presence and his income. It’s my own issue that I feel anger rising.

lucky not to be a type who stuffs your feelings

Lol! This is one of my superpowers!

@Tinyflame thank you for sharing your own experience and perspective with me. Sorry I felt triggered, but it’s my journey and I fully own it as my own issue. Your perspective is valid and helps me think outside the walls I create for myself.

 

[Tinyflame]

@Self.In.Progress I'm glad, but I hope it didn't hurt or offend you, as that was not my intention. :( In fact:

Ididn’t consider that claiming I don’t have a father could be hurtful to people who loved their father who is no longer present or longed for a father who never showed up

I don't think ^^ is automatically hurtful to others, I just simply mean it's a completely different scenario, with different perspectives, and different realities, and different challenges (on both sides). In fact, too, some may not long for a father at all, or identify with even the possibility. And when hurt is felt, it's still our own responsibility to identify what hurts and why.

The government can put a roof over my head and food on my table, that’s not love

^^ I agree, though most social programs do have an underlying intent of care for people. What I mean is, flipping it, if you were a person with a fantastic father emotionally who was very present, encouraging, supportive, loving and well-boundaried, but didn't keep a roof over your head or food on the table, it's possible (as a person- any person) you could conclude after your experiences that he was a ~'lousy father who, yes, sure- he talked or acted lovingly, but he spent too much time with me(/us) & couldn't keep a job or put food on the table, he was irresponsible and cared only for himself to jeopardize all of us, and therefore didn't care less about (my) welfare, or present & definitely future, forced me/ us to always move and lose all my friends & stay in shelters, & I was always the new kid, & I was filled with shame going to the food banks, & wearing donated clothes that didn't fit, and his (in)actions ruined my life and respect for men in general'. (Or any similar variant). So really, I mean it as a balance is the ideal (which most people rarely reach, I think, or have the options easily available to reach it, even if they preferred to).

I do think, sometimes, when people say they're turning in to their mother or father as they themself parent, it's possibly they are using the same coping mechanisms they know of, or have been modeled. But sometimes too, I think they're now faced with some of the same stress, exhaustion, obligations and responsibilities they weren't as intimately used to managing daily (or hopefully weren't required to be managing). Prolonged stress & exhaustion doesn't leave much left over to give gracefully. :(:cry: Which I don't mean as defending, simply just how life often is.

my interpretation is that I need to feel grateful for my dad’s presence and his income.

No, gratitude didn't even cross my mind- particularly since the damage from abuse takes more than can ever be given- rather only the reality that with 'no father' present (in body or otherwise), the absence of income +/ or presence actually is a legitimate (& huge) concern, normally. I think gratitude is one of those intensely personal things that only exists really privately in your heart and mind where it doesn't have to be shared or revealed, and comes from within, not what anyone else thinks. And by it's nature by definition needs to be genuinely believed/ felt, to even qualify? I think It's ok to feel (or not) whatever you choose, on any given day (really). You choose what works for you. :) :hug:

 

[Friday]

I didn’t consider that claiming I don’t have a father could be hurtful to people who loved their father who is no longer present or longed for a father who never showed up. Beyond it being hurtful to others, I see your point that it’s just not true. You are right that I had a dad even if he didn’t behave the way I thought he should.

Lots of people don’t have fathers. 10 people not having fathers for different reasons doesn’t make the other 9 reasons offensive. Just different.

Father = Best friend, amazing parent, died.
Father = Hero as a kid, grew apart, died before you could reconnect.
Father = Decent but distant, never really had a relationship, died.
Father = Spent most of your childhood away, barely knew him, died
Father = Died when you were a baby, never knew him
Father = Sperm donor (literally), you were raised by mom
Father = Took off when you were a kid, no idea why
Father = Abusive POS, you & mom ran / she never remarried
Father = Abusive POS, gone no contact
Father = Your mom’s rapist, never met him.

And those are just 10 of hundreds of examples.

All of them are going to have unique issues. None of them invalidate they issues of the others, or mean the others issues are offensive. They’re just their own issues.

 

[TruthSeeker]

It’s probably important for me to recognize my dad’s humanity at some point in the grief process.

Yeah, after you rage about it for a while......which is totally fine......and not suitable now. Your anger has been long time coming....let it happen.
I choose to look at it like this......my father is a relative (some relatives are more distant than others)...and I had no choice in the matter. My family I CAN choose......and today, my family are friends who have been there for me in the thick of it......and still are. Family doesn't have to be related in my book. I've heard others here say something similar.

 

[Ronin]

My biological father is (still alive) a prick par excellence.

But I had / have badass Dads.
Mixed tense for varies by whom.

They are not a substitute. They never were.
They're my Dads...
That the prick should have been and never was.

And then I got a coupla father figures where it's shitf*ck complicated and personal.

Daddy issues in spades. ;)

 

[Rose White]

I don't think ^^ is automatically hurtful to others, I just simply mean it's a completely different scenario, with different perspectives, and different realities, and different challenges (on both sides).

Looking back I see the distortion in my thinking. It wasn’t offensive. I’m not sure what made me think it was offensive.

It helped me to see that I did have a dad, but it didn’t turn out good, so I chose to separate myself from him. So I had a dad and the person who I called dad is still alive but I do not have a relationship with him so I no longer have a dad in my life. I did have one but I chose to end my interactions with him.

Lots of people don’t have fathers.

Right. I see it now. I feel more grounded, not frightened.

I choose to look at it like this......my father is a relative (some relatives are more distant than others)...and I had no choice in the matter.

Yes, the only way to experience being human is to come to Earth through a woman and a man. No choice.

They are not a substitute. They never were.
They're my Dads...

This makes sense. If someone comes into my life with the special qualities that a dad can possess, it will make sense for that time in my life and not even be close to a substitute.

Thanks, I feel like I have a better perspective, or at least a more grounded one.

 

[Zeekayk]

I realized that no one can ever take the place of my parents because they're the only people who should've provided me with a safe home that i can come to and i never found that.

my teachers had "father- or parent figure"
And i looked up to them and often i had wished they would "adopt me"

I married thinking my husband can take the place of my parents but i often found myself disappointed and what i had to come to realize is this:

- no one is going to take the place of my parents
- i am destined forever to live with a void inside me and to be different than everyone else
- i must work everyday on my healing
- its ok if its one step forward two steps back.

 

[TruthSeeker]

I realized that no one can ever take the place of my parents because they're the only people who should've provided me with a safe home that i can come to and i never found that.

my teachers had "father- or parent figure"
And i looked up to them and often i had wished they would "adopt me"

I married thinking my husband can take the place of my parents but i often found myself disappointed and what i had to come to realize is this:

- no one is going to take the place of my parents
- i am destined forever to live with a void inside me and to be different than everyone else
- i must work everyday on my healing
- its ok if its one step forward two steps back.

@Zeekayk I also married, thinking husband would love me better than my father(or be a substitute male role model-something like that)......but husband raped and almost killed me......(my father wasn't that bad.....I was just invisible to him most of the time....he was emotionless-or drunk...or both). Husband was a drunk....didn't find that out till I said "I do."

You said, "I'm destined forever to live with a void inside me "....sounds pretty permanent-"destined forever".....it's fatalistic....maybe you will fill that void someday. As long as you long for a fantasy ( that loving caring father who never was)....you are destined to have a void.
You said, "I'm destined to be different than everyone else"......Well, if you are destined.....make the best of it....change the connotation....in my case.....

I don't want to be like my family because I'll never lead a happy life if I have to play a role in their dysfunction, that they taught me.....that they learned.......
The family is dysfunctional......my father was dysfunctional (now dead) and being different today is okay....I have intact values and they don't jive with a lack of boundaries and values that shift when it is convenient. I have had to go no-contact to work on being functional.....I couldn't be functional if my life and role were bound up in dysfunctinal behaviors.

So, it has taken me a long time to realize that belonging to a dysfunctional family (which means I have to play a role in the dysfunction)......isn't really belonging......it's acting......walking on eggshells.....and a very unhealthy role to have to play in life...and there it was lots of emotional work. I have a friend who loves me.....my best friend, and the most work we do are things that happen naturally, out of caring about the other person.....you can find other "real" people who will love you for being different......for being functional.

No one needs to take the place of our parents.....they were our parents......human, fraile, without self-esteem, and in my case, I know that they were very ill (alcoholics) and narcissistic.

Yep.....we will both work very hard everyday on healing....then maybe someday....we wont have to work so hard.....I keep that hope.

Yep...totally agree with the one step forward, two steps back.....but it evens out, because sometimes its four steps forward, and only one back. ? Hopefully, we won't count the steps.....just know we are going forward over time. Keep the faith!

 

[BeTheLight]

My father david.
Abandoned my mother and I before my first birthday.
He had another child with another woman.
He abandoned her.
He has 2 more children with another woman. He abandoned her...abandoned himself to drugs.
When he was there we did amazing things together. Hunting.. Dirtbiking..snowmobile rides in the middle of british columbias outback. Icefishing.
He said to me oneday he wishes he could explain why he was never there but that oneday when he passes away to read his journal and find out why.
December 2016 he died of a drug overdose.
I was next of kin. I feverishly searched a room for this journal and found it.
His moms best friend and pastor sexually abused him. He was 5 years old.
The moment i read that i lost all my hate towards him. All my anger released and i felt for this man who was once a young boy who had his life destroyed.
A mother who supported the f*cking church over her son.
We never know why people abandon us love. We must ask why they abandoned themselves.
Father figures are wise men who come in many forms.. Who we may never find.