Joenot1368
New Here
I assume you’re quoting my ex. This is exactlywhat she is saying.
Listen i get it. Being it just happened and I’ve never had to confront this l, I’m learning the hard way.
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Relationship Accidentally triggering girlfriend
- Post starter Clutzypartner
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Listen i get it. Being it just happened and I’ve never had to confront this l, I’m learning the hard way.
- Moderator
- #14
Sweetpea76
VIP Member
^^^ This
Your partner is still accountable for their actions, even with PTSD. You’re not a bad person for setting or enforcing boundaries. You’re not “mean” if you don’t tolerate crap behavior.
I’m quoting a lot of exes, and current partners too. It happens.
I’ve been blamed for triggering my partner several times, once because I tossed a broken down box in the recycling bin. How dare I, right? It happened to remind him of a piece of trash covering an IED his vehicle hit. There is no way I could have known exactly what that IED looked like, and I’ve never been an Iraqi insurgent. That didn’t stop him from ripping me a new asshole about it. I was the most careless person in the world, I never really loved him, I was toxic, etc. He raged, he panicked, he even vomited. Guess what? Still wasn’t my fault. I literally put something where it belonged. I removed myself from the situation and refused to engage until he settled down. Then I comforted him. You best believe I never apologized for throwing a box away though.
Deanna
Diamond Member
I think this is over-doing it. I'm a supporter as well as a sufferer and that show would be over. Whatever it is, spells spoiled rotten to me. People don't act like that, period.
Butterfly64
Silver Member
I love this!
After being on both sides of the fence, there is something that occurred to me that I think gets overlooked; an apology is given not because you're wrong (though frequently we are), but we don't have to be, because at it's core it is really because you recognize the hurt or pain you've caused another - and that is the issue. So apologizing per se is not bad in itself (though how someone could not expect to be triggered, or when triggered by accident call themselves not symptomatic, at least retrospectively, I fail to understand completely, short of denial :( ). But it sounds like she owes you equally an apology @Clutzypartner . Which is a so-called relationship, is it not? Caring for each other/ how you both feel? Ptsd or not that applies; owning her own behaviour is the basic daily necessity, but caring how it impacts on others and taking responsibility for that the gauge of the quality of relationships and what value (and the people in them) are to her. JMHO.
ETA, I think that's actually rare that both people do. But people have to care enough, to care not to hurt the other person. In that way, yes love is enough. It's just rare to actually love, when people actually put themself aside, or aside equally, to want to do it, do it, and not let only one person shoulder the blame. Because then it's as others said, just harmful, or reinforcing distortions. Not loving. To be mindful and not intentionally trigger, is loving. To intentionally trigger, is harmful. To unintentionally trigger, is inevitable. To be triggered, is unavoidable and no one's fault. But only the triggered person's responsibility to manage, and not by causing grief to another and calling it justified.
ETA, I think that's actually rare that both people do. But people have to care enough, to care not to hurt the other person. In that way, yes love is enough. It's just rare to actually love, when people actually put themself aside, or aside equally, to want to do it, do it, and not let only one person shoulder the blame. Because then it's as others said, just harmful, or reinforcing distortions. Not loving. To be mindful and not intentionally trigger, is loving. To intentionally trigger, is harmful. To unintentionally trigger, is inevitable. To be triggered, is unavoidable and no one's fault. But only the triggered person's responsibility to manage, and not by causing grief to another and calling it justified.
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Deanna
Diamond Member
Awesome! I couldn't have said it better!
In my opinion your friend has more than ptsd. It sounds like she has a paranoia personality--people do things to her intentionally. She is probably hyper vigilant watching for the slightest behavior to confirm her paranoia.
You can read about it. there are people who look "normal" who have this paranoia problem, and believe me it's a problem that can lead to her being abusive and having absolutely zero self-awareness about it. There's no room for "misunderstandings" or "poor communications" or "mistakes"
You can read about it. there are people who look "normal" who have this paranoia problem, and believe me it's a problem that can lead to her being abusive and having absolutely zero self-awareness about it. There's no room for "misunderstandings" or "poor communications" or "mistakes"
- Post starter
- #20
Clutzypartner
New Here
Hi all. Thanks so much for the replies - they are truly very helpful. I agree that boundaries are necessary and that I cannot take responsibility for triggers. And that I can still be apologetic that she was triggered and ensure she has a safe space to recover. And of course I will also still make an effort to warn when coming up behind her and be careful with sudden movements.
I appreciate the reinforcement that triggering is not my fault when it is unintentional - and it rings true, is helpful for me, so thanks.
She says that she will restart her therapy. I have two questions:
Typically, how long does a PTSD episode last when triggered? How long is someone typically in that reactive black hole where they are not fully aware of what they are saying and how long they are reacting to that and not to reality?
Secondly, any recommendations on the best way to encourage the restart of therapy? I have told her it is a requirement for us to move forward with wedding (June) and the rest of life. But I don’t want to bring it up every day - in many ways I feel this should be her decision.
Thank you again, sorry for not quoting and replying directly to so many good points - too many! Thanks.
I appreciate the reinforcement that triggering is not my fault when it is unintentional - and it rings true, is helpful for me, so thanks.
She says that she will restart her therapy. I have two questions:
Typically, how long does a PTSD episode last when triggered? How long is someone typically in that reactive black hole where they are not fully aware of what they are saying and how long they are reacting to that and not to reality?
Secondly, any recommendations on the best way to encourage the restart of therapy? I have told her it is a requirement for us to move forward with wedding (June) and the rest of life. But I don’t want to bring it up every day - in many ways I feel this should be her decision.
Thank you again, sorry for not quoting and replying directly to so many good points - too many! Thanks.
I don't have the answer to your questions, but I'd seriously hope to reconcile this issue 1st as to if she herself understands this:
And a boundary of entering therapy or else it's over, should specify by when. And because it's not your decision (or your work) for her therapy, your own understanding if she does not then it's over or on hold. And the knowledge it typically gets worse- much worse- with therapy, at least first. And that often, ptsd is for life, even if it improves, and can flare and/ or is cyclical, typically worsening with stressors, even happy events (eg, having a child).
before getting in to a marriage. (ETA, what I mean is, you not being to blame, isn't going to end her blaming of you, if she still thinks you are to blame.)
And a boundary of entering therapy or else it's over, should specify by when. And because it's not your decision (or your work) for her therapy, your own understanding if she does not then it's over or on hold. And the knowledge it typically gets worse- much worse- with therapy, at least first. And that often, ptsd is for life, even if it improves, and can flare and/ or is cyclical, typically worsening with stressors, even happy events (eg, having a child).
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- Post starter
- #22
Clutzypartner
New Here
Also I really hope this question wasn’t offensive to anyone. “PTSD episode”. I guess I am trying to understand how long after a triggering event I should understand and wait before speaking with her about the trigger.
bellbird
VIP Member
Not at all :)
PTSD episodes become a lot like a piece of string, when asked about their length.
It varies so much person to person.
In time, you may get a feel for the length of episodes of a particular sufferer at a particular time of year, but even then it can vary.
I guess I would judge it based on a change in behaviour, i.e. behaviour returning to more of the current "normal" that it was before she was triggered.
I appreciate you asking more questions, My answers will be coming only from my own experience of my own c-ptsd and also my marriage to a man with a single event ptsd. It's interesting how partner/mating choices happen! You might want to ask why you are attracted to her, perhaps you have some developmental trauma that is unresolved and you are unaware of it on a conscious level.
My own "triggered states" or reactive states can last hours or days or weeks. They don't last as long right now and I don't get triggered that often right now. This is after lots of hard work on this beast. Triggers are surprises and unexpected. When I'm self aware that I'm in a triggering situation I can manage pretty well, but there may be emotional states such as being bitchy that I can't seem to totally control until I'm out of the triggering situation. Then I might be physically exhausted afterwards and need to rest or zone out for awhile; I no longer go into self harming behavior mode.
When doing therapy, symptoms increased for me and if it's not the right therapy type and the right therapy relationship, symptoms can get so out of control it's intolerable and there's no resolution. When it's the right therapy and therapist there should be some relief and releasing of tensions. Having the right therapist makes all the difference. Also, it sounds like Perhaps that your friend has more than ptsd-sounds like she has a paranoia thing going on too. "It's always other people's fault, critical of people, unforgiving, carrying grudges, hyper vigilant for the slightest offense." If that is the case, needed trust in a therapy relationship would be very, very difficult.
My husband has ptsd also from a horrific life event as a child. Since boys are in male culture he had no way to process this or have anyone to help him through it. So as the saying goes, "Hurt people hurt people." In a nut shell I married my abusive mother. It's so weird how this is a very common pattern with the human condition. After my healing journey began I was healthy "enough" to give an ultimatum: six months you need to be in therapy and there need to be changes. If not in six months I will leave. I meant it. My behavior, my body language, my speech on a daily basis made it clear that I meant it. I was basically cold and did not give affection or behave the same way as I did previously. The message was being given daily that I have changed and this relationship is over, but you have six months for me to see if there will be changes. With my religion this felt like "Conditional Love." and it was uncomfortable for me; but enough was enough was enough. I had gained a small enough self-respect from therapy to reconginize I was not being loved AT ALL. Love is a choice and marriage is a contract: we made agreements (vows) that you behave this way and I will behave this way. He had breached his contract so I was no longer obligated to fulfill my end of the contract. My religion has very little room for divorce, but I could leave and stay single. (my views on divorce have since changed but I caution choose your life partner carefully). I made myself very clear; because prior to this decision I made to leave him, he would say whatever he needed to say, make promises, etc., but it was all lies, this kept me hooked in the relationship. I had to be willing to leave and end it. Not just willing, but making the plans on how I will leave and where I would go.
So, when he realized I meant it, when he realized I had really changed, he did get therapy, did emdr, and started his healing journey. There were night and day differences in his behavior, attitude, emotional states that even his co-workers commented on as well as a couple neighbors. He had an amazing therapy team, and one of his counselors really helped me, too. The change was for the better. Because of his therapy and healing journey he understands me when I'm triggered and vice versa. So it's easier to give some grace for reactive states, however, that is never an excuse to not own our own abusive behavior, work on getting healthy and behave in a caring way toward the other person.
If you tell your friend she needs to get help and there needs to be some changes, and you do sincerely mean it then you need to be willing to accept that she may walk away and blame you for the break up. This would be very painful but I hope you can understand that you will be dodging an even more painful bullet!
Also, my husband does not ask me about "triggering" behavior or discuss it and vice versa. If he wanted to discuss the trigger it would feel too "invasive." If my husband said to me hey can we talk about that trigger that led to your behavior it would trigger me out of my effing mind. Vice versa for him. Instead he has said to me, "No one deserves the way you just treated me," and it's like a wake up call back to reality. I have said to him on occassion, "I don't know what is going on with you, but I don't believe the way you acted is not who you really are," These things we say to each other if there is no apparrent self-awareness on the guilty person's part. In Peter Wagner's books he and his wife do talk about their triggers. That sounds really wonderful, but we are not like that and I have no desire to talk about them.
My own "triggered states" or reactive states can last hours or days or weeks. They don't last as long right now and I don't get triggered that often right now. This is after lots of hard work on this beast. Triggers are surprises and unexpected. When I'm self aware that I'm in a triggering situation I can manage pretty well, but there may be emotional states such as being bitchy that I can't seem to totally control until I'm out of the triggering situation. Then I might be physically exhausted afterwards and need to rest or zone out for awhile; I no longer go into self harming behavior mode.
When doing therapy, symptoms increased for me and if it's not the right therapy type and the right therapy relationship, symptoms can get so out of control it's intolerable and there's no resolution. When it's the right therapy and therapist there should be some relief and releasing of tensions. Having the right therapist makes all the difference. Also, it sounds like Perhaps that your friend has more than ptsd-sounds like she has a paranoia thing going on too. "It's always other people's fault, critical of people, unforgiving, carrying grudges, hyper vigilant for the slightest offense." If that is the case, needed trust in a therapy relationship would be very, very difficult.
My husband has ptsd also from a horrific life event as a child. Since boys are in male culture he had no way to process this or have anyone to help him through it. So as the saying goes, "Hurt people hurt people." In a nut shell I married my abusive mother. It's so weird how this is a very common pattern with the human condition. After my healing journey began I was healthy "enough" to give an ultimatum: six months you need to be in therapy and there need to be changes. If not in six months I will leave. I meant it. My behavior, my body language, my speech on a daily basis made it clear that I meant it. I was basically cold and did not give affection or behave the same way as I did previously. The message was being given daily that I have changed and this relationship is over, but you have six months for me to see if there will be changes. With my religion this felt like "Conditional Love." and it was uncomfortable for me; but enough was enough was enough. I had gained a small enough self-respect from therapy to reconginize I was not being loved AT ALL. Love is a choice and marriage is a contract: we made agreements (vows) that you behave this way and I will behave this way. He had breached his contract so I was no longer obligated to fulfill my end of the contract. My religion has very little room for divorce, but I could leave and stay single. (my views on divorce have since changed but I caution choose your life partner carefully). I made myself very clear; because prior to this decision I made to leave him, he would say whatever he needed to say, make promises, etc., but it was all lies, this kept me hooked in the relationship. I had to be willing to leave and end it. Not just willing, but making the plans on how I will leave and where I would go.
So, when he realized I meant it, when he realized I had really changed, he did get therapy, did emdr, and started his healing journey. There were night and day differences in his behavior, attitude, emotional states that even his co-workers commented on as well as a couple neighbors. He had an amazing therapy team, and one of his counselors really helped me, too. The change was for the better. Because of his therapy and healing journey he understands me when I'm triggered and vice versa. So it's easier to give some grace for reactive states, however, that is never an excuse to not own our own abusive behavior, work on getting healthy and behave in a caring way toward the other person.
If you tell your friend she needs to get help and there needs to be some changes, and you do sincerely mean it then you need to be willing to accept that she may walk away and blame you for the break up. This would be very painful but I hope you can understand that you will be dodging an even more painful bullet!
Also, my husband does not ask me about "triggering" behavior or discuss it and vice versa. If he wanted to discuss the trigger it would feel too "invasive." If my husband said to me hey can we talk about that trigger that led to your behavior it would trigger me out of my effing mind. Vice versa for him. Instead he has said to me, "No one deserves the way you just treated me," and it's like a wake up call back to reality. I have said to him on occassion, "I don't know what is going on with you, but I don't believe the way you acted is not who you really are," These things we say to each other if there is no apparrent self-awareness on the guilty person's part. In Peter Wagner's books he and his wife do talk about their triggers. That sounds really wonderful, but we are not like that and I have no desire to talk about them.
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