Toxic family.

[LittleBigFoot]

Of course we all have PTSD

So I want to challenge this statement. Yes, you all have the factors that can lead to the onset of PTSD. However, it’s not necessarily an of course. There’s a million and one other personality disorders and mental illnesses that abusive households hand out like candy. I wonder, let’s hypothesize that you all do have PTSD or something equally challenging, can you find compassion for them for their own struggles with their mental health? I know I feel better within myself if I find something compassionate to think or say about someone else rather than see the worst in them and hound on it being their failure. Now for doing that for myself? Different story lol there’s no compassion to be found.

So for example:
Instead of: she’s a manipulative whore
You could try: wow she’s got some seriously high defense mechanisms built up, I can only imagine the amount of pain she’s dealing with that she feels the need to be that armored. I wonder what’s something that can circumvent her defenses and reach her vulnerable core in a way she can respond positively too.

Another example:
Instead of: viewing a brother as being so beneath your view of success and is a consummate failure.
You could try: geez I can’t help but notice my brother is really struggling. I can only imagine the demons in his head he must be fighting daily that tell him he’s only worth this life. Maybe I can talk to him and see if I can help him get help, perhaps with a therapist so he can unload some of those demons and find his self worth and live much happier.

 

[edteach]

Sorry I don't go for mama sat me backwards on the toilet seat or someone else and its not their fault. I am an own your own shit person. I have a million flaws. But I am not going to look for the positive to give my sister in law a pass or an excuse for her actions. She did it she lives it and she should own it. I don't really care how many demons she has in her skull. We all have them. Its like when someone commits a crime, and the bleeding hearts try to make excuses its not the gang banger its the gun, if we had laws banning guns these criminals would be in college and be upstanding parts of society. I think that is total Bravo Sierra.

 

[LittleBigFoot]

okay, hold on gotta let me catch my breath first.

Whew okay I’m good now. I never said give anyone a pass. Compassion and boundaries are a different thing and it’s okay to have both without comprising the other. But I understand you aren’t ready for that level of cognitive reasoning and that’s cool, to each their own.

So apparently you think I’m a democrat? I’m actually a republican and wholeheartedly back the second amendment. My opinion is that we need stronger schools, mental health resources, parenting education, and oh look at that! compassion for a fellow person. Say a kid is being bullied- I’d promote showing him compassion and getting help when he first discloses (or before through parenting and creating a safe atmosphere that they feel they can disclose) and pushing for the bullies and their parents to also be made to get serious help. Then, perhaps the bullied student would not be driven by those demons to snap and shoot up a school.

But this sidetracks from the original question so I’ll leave it at that. You asked for opinions and that’s what you’re getting. I’m curious about the defense mechanisms the constructive criticism seems to be stirring up. It’s logical, defenses are there for a reason.

 

[internal]

But I am not going to look for the positive to give my sister in law a pass or an excuse for her actions. She did it she lives it and she should own it. I don't really care how many demons she has in her skull.

so why are you continuing to engage with this person? what is it that you are looking for? (disregarding the rest of your post as being a rant on the evils of gun control, or what ever that was.)

 

[edteach]

Gun control was used to make a point. I don't have contact with my brother and sister in law that cheated on him. Have not for over two years, my youngest brother is the one who will stop talking to me if I say anything he does not like. The other brother likes to get in the middle and run to me and tell me how bad and stupid my younger brother is and then run to my little brother and tell him what an idiot I am to keep in the middle. Not sure why but its how he as always been. Don't use the gun control as a strawman argument. I am very pro gun but that is not the point I was trying to make.

 

[joeylittle]

ADMIN POST

@grief and @LittleBigFoot - I'm going to ask that you walk away from the thread.

Don't like how the OP expresses themselves? That's fine. We don't moderate for tone or language in that way.

If you have a real concern, you should report it. But it looks like you're both simply doing some moralizing of your own. It's fine for you to express your opinions as well - and you have done, repeatedly.

So (as you've both said), no one is forcing you to engage.

Next step is thread-banning.

 

[joeylittle]

Reading through your posts, @edteach - a couple of things stand out to me.

I have three brothers and we were all brought up in a very toxic home. My father was mentally and physically abusive.

You're right to remember this, when looking at your own response to your brothers actions/decisions. Siblings growing up in an abusive home will always develop a pretty complicated dynamic with each other, as well as being affected themselves. I wonder - do you think you felt responsible for your brothers even as a kid? Or, maybe you believed that you let them down, or they let you down? Do you remember if your father played each of you off each other at all, tried to manipulate or affe3ct your feelings towards one another?

Big foot, I have a tendency to be or see the negative side of life. I am not an optomist that is for sure. But i feel I live in the real world. Things are what they are and don't look at things as it will all turn out for the best. Most times in life it does not.

Also not surprising for someone growing up in your situation. Like the others were pointing out - there is a way that you can be a realist and still allow for the possibility of things changing. I'd actually encourage you to work on the notion that things can be going downhill, but often do have the potential to stop their downhill trajectory; or even slow it down.

My point is - change is almost always incremental, and everything in life is capable of changing towards the "good" or the "bad" - but also, the change can be about moving towards "neutral". There is such a thing as neither good nor bad. I think it's especially helpful for people who self-identify as skeptics or pessimists (myself included) to remember this.

I don't know if any of that sounds useful for you, just am offering it up.

My youngest brothers wife being 475 pounds does not affect me other than I can tell he is miserable in his life. I never said anything to him about it. But I can see that he is miserable in his life. He was told by his Dr. that he needed to dump sugar and start to eat better. He lives on McDonald's and junk food. So he actually did. He lost weight and was doing well but his wife made fun of him and attacked him relentlessly. So after about 6 months of eathing right and doing better he gave in and went back to the junk food. She never helped him take care of himself Hell she can not take care of herself and loves every minute of it. It is so bad he never took care of his teeth and he got an abscess so bad it looked like he had a hard ball in his cheek and lost all his teeth at 40. He now has dentures. So its hard to watch a family member make such horrible choices. I guess I felt like I was the one who had to help out the brothers,

I absolutely understand how hard it is to see a family member digging a hole for themselves, and to not know how to help. Or to have your help not be welcomed. I highlighted this paragraph just because I think that, yes - I understand how your brother's wife is contributing to the ways in which your brother is keeping himself down, and can see how her own health issue (obesity) relates to that. In some ways, it's no different from if your brother was trying to give up alcohol, and his wife was steadfastly maintaining her status as an alcoholic, and giving him shit for trying to quit.

And that's just one of your brothers....

It seems to me like there are three sets of relationships to untangle. There's how you relate to yourself and your history of abuse; there's how you and your brothers relate to each other as adults; and finally, there's how the three of you related to each other as children.

Each one of those three things is going to be influencing your behavior as well as theirs, all the way across the board. It's a lot to dig into.

I'm sorry if I missed this earlier - are you or have you ever worked with a therapist on any of this? Have your brothers?

 

[internal]

@grief and @LittleBigFoot - I'm going to ask that you walk away from the thread.

i apolegize for my behavier @edteach.

this was a vent thread which i didn't under stand at the time. and i read some thing that triggered me and i reacted emotionally.

of that for my own stuff which isn't your's problem. it's mine. and i was being petty and passive aggressive. (and moralizing my self.)

all the best and i wish you luck with your family. joey's analysis is very spot on and i think that her words may be very helpfull to you.

(my apolegies if this stepped over the line as a post.)

 

[edteach]

So my brother with the wife who cheated on him did go to therapy. He said that the tharipist sat up when he said he was raised a JW. She said do you understand how manipulative that group is and that its a high control group and that it is a cult. He said that he had looked into it and it was something he came to understand. I did go to a therapist once several years ago but she was not very good. She said nothing about being raised in an abusive home and being raised a JW. I only went once because I knew that these things were importnant and she just brushed them aside. My brother who was suicidal has been going to a therapist since he put him self into a institution. He said that they did go into the JWs and abuse at home. Our mother was very strange person. She was almost showing signs of Van Munchhousen by proxy. She would slap the kids at the Kingdom hall meetings across the face so loud that the meeing would stop for a second. Once my little brother got the Flintstones vitamins and instead of asking him if he took any he was about 6 at the time she chased him down and forced him to take ipecac. The kid was puking for an hour. She did this only because my future mother in law and future wife were at the house planning our wedding. She would gas light me all the time.
As a child I had memories of dad beating her, once throwing a bowl of soup against the wall because he felt soup was not a man who works dinner and then telling her to clean it up. When she resisted he forced her to the floor on all fours and sat on her back until she was balling. I had brought this up many years later and she said it never happened and that I was just imagining it. I was sure it was not imagined and finally one day when she was as she always did defend my dads bad behavior, I brought it up again and instead of denying it she said yes but you and your wife don't have a perfect relationship. Which was true, I was abusive myself for many years to my wife, violent and mentally. I freely admit this and I to this day do not know how she or why she stuck with me. I have spent the last 20 years trying to make it up to her. We have a great relationship now but it was horrible and it was 90 percent me. I had a horrible image of what a relationship was supposed to be. And as a JW you are not allowed to go to a therapist you have to go to an elder. As I grew older I started to ask questions like OK so if I need professional help I am going to an elder who is a window washer? This does not sound right to me. I was beat down and told that Jehovah would fix it through the elders.
So yes I know I have been retarded as to being a child and growing into an adult. The cult is very dangerous in the extreme. If you are not or have never been a JW you can not even imagine what goes on inside the cult. Such as if someone say an elder molests your little child, and the child does come to you and says daddy elder so and so touched me in my private parts, you can be disfellowshipped[being kicked out of the cult and if anyone who is in even says hello to you they can be disfellowshipped.] for going to the police. You take it to the elders, they have three men sit down with the accused and they ask them if they did this. If they say no there has to be two witnesses because of a biblical verse that says let all matters be settled with two or three witnesses. So how many pedophiles do molest children with an audiance? None not one. So you are told to leave it in Jehovah's hands and he will take care of it one day. This goes for anything including murder. I had two cousins who broke into a construction site and stole guns, blasting caps and explosives. They were blowing holes in the ground with the caps. They were setting them off with 9V batteries. I called the police and turned them in and I got a visit from the elders saying I had no right and if I did something like that again I would be DFed.

 

[lostforgottensoul]

I grew up in a cult and have super uber toxic family that are no longer in my life. The only one left is my dad who is in uber denial. I spent many years battling my family and it took years to get them out of my life. But if you are this effected by your family, then the most healthy thing for you to do is to not allow then in your life.

My therapist and I talk a lot about surface level only relationships. Where you talk about the weather or just surface level things and nothing important. Because once you discuss important things it goes south. We just had this conversation yesterday. Keeping these toxic people at a distance. You have to think about yourself and your own mental health. It sounds like this all is effecting you a lot and I feel you. I was and am there. It sucks!

 

[edteach]

Unless one has been in a cult they don't know anything about it. Its like watching a documentary on war and having been at the front in it .

 

[lostforgottensoul]

Unless one has been in a cult they don't know anything about it. Its like watching a documentary on war and having been at the front in it .

True and not true at the same time. I don't think someone can understand the insane mind f*ck a cult does to someone who haven't been in a cult before. Like, no one got why I was still doing the cult rituals as an adult still. Or why I was reenacting the punishments on myself still. And why I still feel in love with my step father who led this cult, trafficked and tortured me.

That being said, many can understand parts of it. When you piece it out and seek support for the pieces, you will see many understanding those pieces.

I came here looking for support for those that have been in a cult. I couldn't see anyone being able to support me unless they have. But once I pieced it out, I found many could understand those smaller pieces. And sure, there are pieces that many don't get. Maybe 10% or so, there are few that get that 10%. But when they get the other 90%, that 10% doesn't matter much.

I hope that all made sense.