Taking Risks

[1wanderer]

My complex PTSD is from being raised by a violent narcissist. My PTSD lay dormant until my mid 50’s, so I lived a list of my life with PTSD hidden. I had odd behaviors but never had a clue.

Fear of failure was always a driving force. After PTSD exploded avoidance took over.

So I avoided till I went agoraphobic for six months.

So, let me ask

How much danger do you embrace?

How much do you risk?

What level of risk are you willing to face?

What does it take to prepare for risk?

When you do risk, how does it work out?

Is it easier to risk the next time?

How often do you feel safe? Secure? Worthy?

What is the riskiest thing you do?
.

 

[Movingforward10]

I think, for me, this is a confusing question.
Because, for me, it might be tied up with self worth. I.e. if I feel I am worthy of being safe, then the risks I take will be less. In the past, I took lots of risks and they didn't pay off. Because who gave a shit anyways if something bad happened? So in the old days: drink, drugs, bad situations, etc.
But these days, I don't take dangerous risks. Although, everything is a risk really! Crossing the road, driving a car etc.

But I do take measured risks. And leaps of faith. So not sure they are risks. So I will change my job. I will drive my car down new roads. The 'risk' I am currently taking is reducing therapy. And I took a risk to tell my sister's a broad outline of what happened to me in childhood recently: one sister responded well, the other the opposite. But despite the bad response (appalling response!), It was still a risk worth taking. I still feel good about having done it.

But I also have thoughts still if I think something bad will happen. Like, "well so what if I crash my car, I'll just die and it doesn't matter". But I know I can say no to that voice, because I won't crash my car and I won't die.

Sometimes I will prepare. Like, telling my sisters. I spoke with my T about it. I spoke with friends. I journalled.
Sometimes I won't and I'll do it spur of the moment. It would depend on the situation I suppose b

No idea if this answers your question!

What are you currently doing and are you asking because you think it's not working for you?

 

[arfie]

as a recovering chaos junkie with a raging fear of entrapment, my risks are in staying put and trusting humans after the first whiff of a bowel movement. going into a convenience store where the clerk recognizes my face feels like a greater risk than flying to another continent and navigating cultures whose language i do not speak. i find it comforting to have a built in excuse for not understanding the people around me or expectations that they should be able to understand me.

i've been in recovery for around half a century still feel and give in to my flight psychosis on a routine basis. the risk which has gotten easier for me is turning around and trying again, fear of entrapment and all. i keep my risks deliberate, small and measured. it's okay to know my neighbor's name and to let them know mine.

small steps, big faith and lots of prayer.
let god lead the dance.

 

[1wanderer]

I think, for me, this is a confusing question.
Because, for me, it might be tied up with self worth. I.e. if I feel I am worthy of being safe, then the risks I take will be less. In the past, I took lots of risks and they didn't pay off. Because who gave a shit anyways if something bad happened? So in the old days: drink, drugs, bad situations, etc.
But these days, I don't take dangerous risks. Although, everything is a risk really! Crossing the road, driving a car etc.

But I do take measured risks. And leaps of faith. So not sure they are risks. So I will change my job. I will drive my car down new roads. The 'risk' I am currently taking is reducing therapy. And I took a risk to tell my sister's a broad outline of what happened to me in childhood recently: one sister responded well, the other the opposite. But despite the bad response (appalling response!), It was still a risk worth taking. I still feel good about having done it.

But I also have thoughts still if I think something bad will happen. Like, "well so what if I crash my car, I'll just die and it doesn't matter". But I know I can say no to that voice, because I won't crash my car and I won't die.

Sometimes I will prepare. Like, telling my sisters. I spoke with my T about it. I spoke with friends. I journalled.
Sometimes I won't and I'll do it spur of the moment. It would depend on the situation I suppose b

No idea if this answers your question!

What are you currently doing and are you asking because you think it's not working for you?

Thanks for response

I Agree it is a complex question. Mine has two parts. My PTSD did not explode until I was in my mid 50’s, so I have two different intensities.

After PTSD exploded, my life or my brain spotted danger everywhere. Before I learned to calm my fight or flight mechanism I avoided everything. Now my nervous system does not explode, so my avoidance is not as bad.

I went to my trigger situations and stayed until my nervous system calmed down. It was almost euphoric having that burden lifted.

I think that was half the battle.

But I avoid and do not risk certain things. I have always been somewhat of a loner

I found my childhood left me with little trust and no attachments.

That is connected to self-worth as you described

So I avoid it because of the risk and lack of desire or lack of enjoyment.

What I can force myself to do is upsetting or not enjoyable

My brain will go crazy after a triggering event for days on end.

I fear that more than the trigger

 

[1wanderer]

as a recovering chaos junkie with a raging fear of entrapment, my risks are in staying put and trusting humans after the first whiff of a bowel movement. going into a convenience store where the clerk recognizes my face feels like a greater risk than flying to another continent and navigating cultures whose language i do not speak. i find it comforting to have a built in excuse for not understanding the people around me or expectations that they should be able to understand me.

i've been in recovery for around half a century still feel and give in to my flight psychosis on a routine basis. the risk which has gotten easier for me is turning around and trying again, fear of entrapment and all. i keep my risks deliberate, small and measured. it's okay to know my neighbor's name and to let them know mine.

small steps, big faith and lots of prayer.
let god lead the dance.

We all have similar patterns I think. I like your saying, that I keep my risks deliberate. I think we all do because it takes courage to face anxiety and our fears to risk certain things

My risks are more threatening to my emotional well-being rather than physical harm.

It's abstract and others feel completely safe as my danger sirens sound

Our prefrontal cortex is hampered when PTSD is active so triggers confuse us on top of dumping cortisol and adrenaline into our bloodstream.

I think PTSD is a bluff, nothing happens that physically harms us but the adrenal stress response to those drugs is real.

Some of PTSDs power is having control of the switch to our fight or flight mechanism.

I do have a fear that PTSD will revert back to when my fight or flight fired 15 times a day

 

[arfie]

I think PTSD is a bluff, nothing happens that physically harms us but the adrenal stress response to those drugs is real.

well said, fellow wanderer. methinks that adrenal stress response naturally operates on a trigger system. a surprise encounter with an angry grizzly bear needs that sudden influx of adrenal hormones. in my strictly personal herstory, my childhood conditioning consisted of enough angry bears that the trigger switch got stuck in the "on" position. by the time i came of age i believe i was living proof that those adrenal hormones are highly addictive and mind-altering substances. what does clear and present danger have to do with a junkie getting a fix? how convenient that my dealer lives in my head. . .

I do have a fear that PTSD will revert back to when my fight or flight fired 15 times a day

with radical acceptance and mindfulness, it's okay when my over-developed survival instincts kick in 15 times a day. i recognize ^it^ for what ^it^ is and shuffle it to the side like the irritations of road work in front of my house. compost happens. . . think i'll go fertilize some roses.

 

[1wanderer]

well said, fellow wanderer. methinks that adrenal stress response naturally operates on a trigger system. a surprise encounter with an angry grizzly bear needs that sudden influx of adrenal hormones. in my strictly personal herstory, my childhood conditioning consisted of enough angry bears that the trigger switch got stuck in the "on" position. by the time i came of age i believe i was living proof that those adrenal hormones are highly addictive and mind-altering substances. what does clear and present danger have to do with a junkie getting a fix? how convenient that my dealer lives in my head. . .


with radical acceptance and mindfulness, it's okay when my over-developed survival instincts kick in 15 times a day. i recognize ^it^ for what ^it^ is and shuffle it to the side like the irritations of road work in front of my house. compost happens. . . think i'll go fertilize some roses.

PTSD gains access to our adrenal stress response. Actually trauma is stored on the right side of the brain in our Amygdala as implicit memory.

All this is stored as images and feelings with fearful thoughts. PTSD by definition is irrational. Parts of the executive branch are impaired as we save this memory.

It can be a one-time event or a complete childhood

When a trigger fires, adrenaline and cortisol are dumped, Bp, respiration and heart rate spike, and coagulants are secreted for possible repair.

Tunnel vision takes over as thinking is near impossible, we perceive a lethal threat. Life is distorted at this point.

So PTSD is our amygdala spotting like dangers and then firing our defense mechanism

So a trigger fires, fight or flight ignites.

If you have skills focused breathing can dissipate this sympathetic firing

Or you can wait 10 or more minutes.

Our nervous system comes back down to our normal

Are we physically damaged

We damn sure thought we were in serious danger

But nothing happens

Why do we react to future danger

We can not consciously reach the right side of our brain

You can not reason or think your way out of PTSD

I tried and ended up agoraphobic

 

[Rose White]

So PTSD is our amygdala spotting like dangers and then firing our defense mechanism

I don’t know the full details but this sounds about right.

Are we physically damaged

Yes, but we are alive and the good news is that while neurons typically do not regenerate healthy ones can so-called rewire, which is how people can mentally and emotionally mature, develop new habits, and get over fears, among other things. Neuroplasticity is real.

You can not reason or think your way out of PTSD

Nope. Which is one reason why when you feel stuck in the grinder, looping your thoughts and emotions, one strategy is to do nothing, including not think! Only to notice but without attaching any judgment to the sensations. Then eventually you will be able to notice the flow of sensations, but the key is stopping judgment. The judgment is what leads to an extraordinary amount of suffering. This is what some people call a mindfulness practice and is why so many therapists use various techniques related to it. It shifts the part of the brain being used, and therefore shifts the experience.

Something helpful is learning about the common cognitive distortions that people with PTSD tend to succumb to. A good source for learning about these is in Pete Walker’s book “Complex-PTSD.”

Yes there is physical damage, but just like every other disorder an individual can learn coping skills to manage symptoms and develop stability.

 

[Freddyt]

Why do we react to future danger

Because the base problem is that we can't tell the past from the present - and there is no more than present when PTSD is very active.

Thats what therapy is about - separating the past and present, so danger is in the past not always in the present.

 

[1wanderer]

Because the base problem is that we can't tell the past from the present - and there is no more than present when PTSD is very active.

Thats what therapy is about - separating the past and present, so danger is in the past not always in the present.

I agree with most of that. Time is distorted but unless we have split into alters as in multiple personalities we know where we are at in time

Inside our heads is a parallel universe unfolding, our inner world

By separating do you mean integrating past trauma to present moment?

Those dangers are stored in the right amygdala so we have no conscious control.

Triggers fire when they feel like it

I think we dissociate into the past and future and worry, hyper vigilance are the symptoms

 

[Freddyt]

By separating do you mean integrating past trauma to present moment?

No - it means putting trauma in it chronological place - in the past.

Those dangers are stored in the right amygdala so we have no conscious control.

Actually - we can counter that with reality - unless we are at the top of the SUDS scale and at the point of dissociation.

Triggers fire when they feel like it

How to use triggers as a means to recovery?

To answer this question, lets first define a psychological trigger. A trigger is an activated traumatic memory due to your present environment via one or more of your five senses, sight, sound, touch, taste and smell. A trigger will result in a symptomatic or behavioral response. To fully...

www.myptsd.com

I think we dissociate into the past and future and worry, hyper vigilance are the symptoms

Dissociation happens when our conscious self can not handle the present. When we reach that point we go into survival mode - nothing more or less. Because of PTSD past and present are one and there is no future. Meaning the anxiety of the past and present are one and the same and we can not tell them apart. But we can learn how to control them to some degree.

The ptsd cup explanation

Nearly a decade ago (2006) I wrote The PTSD Cup Explanation, a simple view of how PTSD causes symptoms in day-to-day life. This article is an update to that original piece. Regardless of the type of trauma endured, the PTSD Cup does not change, deviate or apply differently to your circumstance...

www.myptsd.com

Hypervig is a byproduct of this - it's the survival - the 4 F's being active - it was designed to help us do whats needed to survive, but in the case of people with PTSD it goes active when we begin to reach the top of the SUDS scale. Even when there is no present danger.
It can be bad or good. It can be out of control or if you learn how you can saddle up and ride that horse and use it. It takes being able to recognize whats going on and to be able to see it coming to do that.

EVERYTHING about PTSD has to do with your anxiety level and your ability to control it. You wake up feeling more stress than most people ever feel. You have to sort out whats real and whats imagined. You have to learn to control your thoughts and not get sucked into the vortex of rumination, and you need to learn how to stop that vortex when you get sucked in. You have to learn how to stay in the present and to use your skills to manage symptoms. If you don't - it's very difficult to move forward in therapy because you just go round and round the circle dealing with the same symptoms over and over.

 

[1wanderer]

No - it means putting trauma in it chronological place - in the past.


Actually - we can counter that with reality - unless we are at the top of the SUDS scale and at the point of dissociation.

How to use triggers as a means to recovery?

To answer this question, lets first define a psychological trigger. A trigger is an activated traumatic memory due to your present environment via one or more of your five senses, sight, sound, touch, taste and smell. A trigger will result in a symptomatic or behavioral response. To fully...

www.myptsd.com

Dissociation happens when our conscious self can not handle the present. When we reach that point we go into survival mode - nothing more or less. Because of PTSD past and present are one and there is no future. Meaning the anxiety of the past and present are one and the same and we can not tell them apart. But we can learn how to control them to some degree.

The ptsd cup explanation

Nearly a decade ago (2006) I wrote The PTSD Cup Explanation, a simple view of how PTSD causes symptoms in day-to-day life. This article is an update to that original piece. Regardless of the type of trauma endured, the PTSD Cup does not change, deviate or apply differently to your circumstance...

www.myptsd.com

Hypervig is a byproduct of this - it's the survival - the 4 F's being active - it was designed to help us do whats needed to survive, but in the case of people with PTSD it goes active when we begin to reach the top of the SUDS scale. Even when there is no present danger.
It can be bad or good. It can be out of control or if you learn how you can saddle up and ride that horse and use it. It takes being able to recognize whats going on and to be able to see it coming to do that.

EVERYTHING about PTSD has to do with your anxiety level and your ability to control it. You wake up feeling more stress than most people ever feel. You have to sort out whats real and whats imagined. You have to learn to control your thoughts and not get sucked into the vortex of rumination, and you need to learn how to stop that vortex when you get sucked in. You have to learn how to stay in the present and to use your skills to manage symptoms. If you don't - it's very difficult to move forward in therapy because you just go round and round the circle dealing with the same symptoms over and over.

By separating do you mean integrating past trauma to present moment?

No - it means putting trauma in it chronological place - in the past.

If we can stay present, the past fades. I know the chronological order of my trauma through dedicated meditation and therapy

Putting your trauma in chronological order baffles me a little.

I have childhood trauma, no need for me to handle for order. It is the past, I know this

Dissociation does not always happen when a trigger is firing or

conscious self can not handle the present.

I dissociate without even being aware it is happening at times. Dissociation for PTSD is as simple as the definition that we leave this time to wander back or into the future, predicting gloom

My PTSD is much more than anxiety.

It is what my mind does to me after triggers or trying to figure out a way out. Instead of anxious, I get pissed at what has happened to me

The intrusive thoughts not anxiety are most dominant in my life

I meditated five hour a day for five years, focusing, following my breath, until one day my nervous system stopped during for traumatic danger. So I am very familiar with awareness, chronological order and my inner world.

Now avoidance and dissociation are my problem areas.

My anxiety runs a little faster than normal people, but it has settled down so other symptoms take the stage