Do you think C-PTSD will make it into the DSM in your lifetime?

[tofubreadcoriander]

As the title says, Do you think C-PTSD will make it into the DSM in your lifetime?

I saw a trauma therapist for a few months whom diagnosed me with C-PTSD, extreme anxiety and dissociation. However, when I asked an official letter for the diagnosis from him, he wrote PTSD and not C-PTSD even though C-PTSD is recognized in ICD-11. When I challenged him about this, he said it shouldn't be a problem when clearly C-PTSD is different from single instance PTSD.

Personally, I don't think it'll make it into the DSM in my lifetime despite me being in my 30s even if there are modalities specifically designed to address it such as somatic experiencing which can address developmental trauma or NARM therapy.

What's your take on it?

 

[Friday]

Unless healthcare revilutionizes itself, things will remain the same.

Agreed.

Honestly, I'd argue that that disorder *is* complex PTSD.

How incredibly judgemental and dismissive of you.

1. Against the people who struggle with BPD

2. As if PTSD is some kind of holy grail of “if your trauma is THIS bad”… when actually? Both PTSD & CPTSD are pretty simplistic/low bar end results of trauma. There are a FEW “better” (shorter lived & more treatable) disorders resulting from trauma (like acute stress disorder) but most? Are sooooo much worse, longer lived, & profound… objectively. Like not just being triggered by trauma related things, but anything/everything entirely unrelated to trauma. And the treatment/prognosis? Is learning how to manage that being your constant, instead of something that comes and goes & can be blunted, then eliminated.

3. Against people who struggle with CPTSD that isn’t BPD adjacent, but takes on aspects of other personality disorders, instead.

If it would be then the healthcare system would be empowered to get educated and change lives, including psychotherapists

As someone who spent over 20 years shouting (as a very small voice amongst millions of others) to get another disorder in? And succeeded? The only thing that changed is the diagnostic code. People still get the exact same treatment, but therapists no longer have to use a catch all DX to get them that treatment.

That’s important. Full stop.

((And I’m still shouting on a 3rd disorder unrelated to that one or to CPTSD. As I said? Important. But not Shazam the entire industry changes because, important. Pebble in a pond important.))

Did it change the entire healthcare industry? Pfft.

Do you even know what that disorder is?

Friday was probably thinking about therapies such as EMDR which can help with both.

Nope.

In relational trauma however, trust has been broken and the therapy has to concentrate a lot on building that.

Trust is broken in FAR more kinds of trauma than just relational trauma.

And often? More profoundly.

Not always more profoundly, by any means, but? Imagine if your trust was so shattered by a stranger that EVERY stranger presented as your abuser? Every person on he street you walk by/drive by. Every therapist. Every doctor. Every teacher. A therapist attempting ANY level of trust with someone that broken? Almost never succeeds. The only wins they can count are the person walking into their office to begin with, and maaaaaybe listening to something they say. Not the trust-glomming & transference & fixation that so many relational trauma survivors contend with, near deifying their therapists (again, a very BPD like attribute)… and also not the paranoid personality like CPTSD peeps who think their therapists are out to get them… But zero trust.

^^^ This (the trust issues business, and how best to meet those needs) is part of why so many trauma therapists (who are already a speciality) specialise further into TYPES of trauma groups/groupings, as well as disorders resulting from trauma, and comorbid diagnoses with trauma. HUGE variants, even within a relatively small field.

This might help:What is CPTSD anyway?

This is, after all, a PTSD Forum. Knowing what that is (and isn’t) is definitely relevant here.

This.

 

[tofubreadcoriander]

Um…eating disorders, personality disorders, mood disorders and anxiety disorders are wildly different illnesses to cptsd. That’s not opinion, unless you’ve taken the label cptsd, which has a particular meaning, and just given it your own definition.

I'd argue that the disorders listed by you come from repeated chronic complex trauma which is the root for C-PTSD. I'd expand C-PTSD to include symptoms of these disorders which is why the DSM would become the size of a pamphlet.

And chronic trauma absolutely doesn’t always result in mental illness. So far as we know, chronic trauma doesn’t usually cause mental illness, not the other way around.

Uh, I said repeated chronic trauma.

Based on that post, you seem to not have the foggiest idea what cptsd actually means.

So yeah, you’re entitled to your opinion as well. It appears to be an utterly ignorant opinion, but hey, opinions are like arses. Everyone’s got one.

No need to get rude here.

This might help:What is CPTSD anyway?

This is, after all, a PTSD Forum. Knowing what that is (and isn’t) is definitely relevant here.

If what I know and express is counter to this forum, then I'm in the wrong place.

Agreed.


How incredibly judgemental and dismissive of you.

1. Against the people who struggle with BPD

2. As if PTSD is some kind of holy grail of “if your trauma is THIS bad”… when actually? Both PTSD & CPTSD are pretty simplistic/low bar end results of trauma. There are a FEW “better” (shorter lived & more treatable) disorders resulting from trauma (like acute stress disorder) but most? Are sooooo much worse, longer lived, & profound… objectively. Like not just being triggered by trauma related things, but anything/everything entirely unrelated to trauma. And the treatment/prognosis? Is learning how to manage that being your constant, instead of something that comes and goes & can be blunted, then eliminated.

3. Against people who struggle with CPTSD that isn’t BPD adjacent, but takes on aspects of other personality disorders, instead.

My bad. I should've made a distinction for BPD. BPD has some genetic features. However, it is suspected that much of the disorder actually stems from complex trauma. There are some outliers (people who had ok childhoods, meaning no sexual or physical abuse) though it's more often than not that that required connection and the 12 needs weren't met.

As someone who spent over 20 years shouting (as a very small voice amongst millions of others) to get another disorder in? And succeeded? The only thing that changed is the diagnostic code. People still get the exact same treatment, but therapists no longer have to use a catch all DX to get them that treatment.

That’s important. Full stop.

((And I’m still shouting on a 3rd disorder unrelated to that one or to CPTSD. As I said? Important. But not Shazam the entire industry changes because, important. Pebble in a pond important.))

It will be different with C-PTSD as it will be changed to include many of the current disorders which will impact a lot of the DSM.

Trust is broken in FAR more kinds of trauma than just relational trauma.

And often? More profoundly.

Not always more profoundly, by any means, but? Imagine if your trust was so shattered by a stranger that EVERY stranger presented as your abuser? Every person on he street you walk by/drive by. Every therapist. Every doctor. Every teacher. A therapist attempting ANY level of trust with someone that broken? Almost never succeeds. The only wins they can count are the person walking into their office to begin with, and maaaaaybe listening to something they say. Not the trust-glomming & transference & fixation that so many relational trauma survivors contend with, near deifying their therapists (again, a very BPD like attribute)… and also not the paranoid personality like CPTSD peeps who think their therapists are out to get them… But zero trust.

^^^ This (the trust issues business, and how best to meet those needs) is part of why so many trauma therapists (who are already a speciality) specialise further into TYPES of trauma groups/groupings, as well as disorders resulting from trauma, and comorbid diagnoses with trauma. HUGE variants, even within a relatively small field.

Trust broken is *always* relational because we, humans, form these bonds with each other. Yes, even if institutions are involved, it is still humans running them. At least for now, we will see how things change when we'll have artificial general intelligence and the robots will take over, haha.

 

[Sideways]

If what I know and express is counter to this forum, then I'm in the wrong place.

If you’re here to learn about the illness, and engage with peers? Then that’s the perfect reason to be here.

But if you’re here to spread rubbish about ptsd, and ptsd diagnosis? Then no, this isn’t the right forum for you.

I'd argue that the disorders listed by you come from repeated chronic complex trauma which is the root for C-PTSD.

And most of the time? You’d be wrong.

Most of the time, Depression is not caused by chronic trauma (or any trauma). Most of the time, Anxiety is not caused by chronic trauma (or any trauma)… See a pattern here??

That’s not opinion. That’s you, not knowing the facts.

I'd expand C-PTSD to include symptoms of these disorders which is why the DSM would become the size of a pamphlet.

This would make diagnosis almost irrelevant. And without accurate diagnosis? There is no meaningful treatment plan.

repeated chronic trauma.

Definition of Chronic: persisting for a long time, or constantly recurring.

‘Repeated chronic’ a tautology.

This is the kind of forum where wildly different opinions on all sorts of things are very welcome. Wanting Complex PTSD in the DSM? Is a totally valid opinion.

But spreading disinformation about the reason this forum exists? Won’t fly. Whenever someone on the forum gets it totally wrong on what ptsd or cptsd is, and isn’t, you’ll find someone in the community will step in, if not Admin. Wrong information about ptsd and cptsd is very unhelpful in this community.

The Articles section has some brilliant, really informative, very current info. Feel free to educate yourself about the illness you have - psychoeducation is incredibly helpful for recovery.

 

[tofubreadcoriander]

If you’re here to learn about the illness, and engage with peers? Then that’s the perfect reason to be here.

But if you’re here to spread rubbish about ptsd, and ptsd diagnosis? Then no, this isn’t the right forum for you.

We agree to disagree.

And most of the time? You’d be wrong.

Most of the time, Depression is not caused by chronic trauma (or any trauma). Most of the time, Anxiety is not caused by chronic trauma (or any trauma)… See a pattern here??

That’s not opinion. That’s you, not knowing the facts.

Can you link me to these facts?

This would make diagnosis almost irrelevant. And without accurate diagnosis? There is no meaningful treatment plan.

It'll actually improve diagnosis. To get to the root of it what is recommended today? That you go to a trauma therapist. It's about making trauma treatment mainstream.

Definition of Chronic: persisting for a long time, or constantly recurring.

‘Repeated chronic’ a tautology.

My bad.

This is the kind of forum where wildly different opinions on all sorts of things are very welcome. Wanting Complex PTSD in the DSM? Is a totally valid opinion.

But spreading disinformation about the reason this forum exists? Won’t fly. Whenever someone on the forum gets it totally wrong on what ptsd or cptsd is, and isn’t, you’ll find someone in the community will step in, if not Admin. Wrong information about ptsd and cptsd is very unhelpful in this community.

The Articles section has some brilliant, really informative, very current info. Feel free to educate yourself about the illness you have - psychoeducation is incredibly helpful for recovery.

I really believe you should check out my Tim Fletcher resources post and his videos on complex trauma and C-PTSD. It's good to be open to new information.

Anyhow, thanks for having me. I wish you the best with your forum. It seems it's the place where a few moderators run the place and if you disagree with a main thread agreed upon collectively (in the moderating space) you get sidelined and encouraged to leave. I don't resonate with such spaces and clearly it's not a trauma informed space. So thanks, but no thanks!

 

[Friday]

It seems it's the place where a few moderators run the place and if you disagree with a main thread agreed upon collectively (in the moderating space)

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Thanks!

 

[anthony]

Can you link me to these facts?

Yes, just grab a copy of the DSM or ICD. Either of those two manuals provide all the facts. Depression and anxiety are foremost genetic and environmental as standalones. Trauma is a small subset in the scheme of population when talking anxiety and depression. Trauma, by definition, can get very subjective in its use, person to person. People love to milk sympathy.

 

[Roland]

I really don’t care if cptsd gets added to the dsm. There’s already treatment plans and therapists that know how “cptsd” and “single event ptsd” are somewhat different. They know the difference when you tell them you were abused for 17 years vs. having been in a care accident once. I don’t think it being added to the dsm would change much.

 

[Charbella]

I don’t understand how comments keep coming up as single trauma PTSD vs CPTSD which is more. PTSD was designed for combat vets originally and I dare say the smallest of percents went though 1 trauma. They went to war, they didn’t fight one battle. The criteria has evolved to include survivors of other trauma that causes the same set of symptoms.

Criterion A (1 required): The person was exposed to: death, threatened death, actual or threatened serious injury, or actual or threatened sexual violence, in the following way(s): Direct exposure. Witnessing the trauma. Learning that the trauma happened to a close relative or close friend.
Quoted from this website

Nothing in this description says one event. Abuse as a child from a parent who threatens to kill you in various ways through words or actions still falls under this. Sexual violence yep CSA.

I get why some people want CPTSD in the DSM but I see no way it’s going to make much in the way of change. If you feel strongly it will revolutionize healthcare, you might not be seeing the right providers. The right provider sees the how the C part influences YOU and makes changes to their practice to help you. Not some prescription that applies to all.

 

[anthony]

Nothing in this description says one event.

People get confused with the trauma vs the symptoms. I can see pros and cons to CPTSD as a diagnosis, but the end aim is to identify the symptom subset that aligns with the optimal treatment. CPTSD tends to be harder to treat, (but so is severe PTSD) being the repetitive trauma has basically destroyed your internal human mechanisms of life, functioning, normality, etc.

I think the problem is that money is involved. If money wasn't involved in treatment - you could call it trauma and have a big list of symptoms, everyone will be unique in exactly what symptoms they experience, then treatment is tailored to it. But because money is involved, doctors need to be specific, hence we have diagnostic manuals and not broad terms with broad symptoms with broad treatment protocols.

 

[KayW]

Post-traumatic stress disorder (PTSD) and Complex PTSD. This article explains the different approaches taken on this subject in DSM5 and ICD 11.

In brief, the criteria for PTSD in DSM 5 incorporates a wider set of symptoms. Whereas in ICD 11, to the symptom set for PTSD is narrower but there is the additional CPTSD symptoms.

 

[Roland]

I don’t understand how comments keep coming up as single trauma PTSD vs CPTSD which is more. PTSD was designed for combat vets originally and I dare say the smallest of percents went though 1 trauma. They went to war, they didn’t fight one battle. The criteria has evolved to include survivors of other trauma that causes the same set of symptoms.



Nothing in this description says one event. Abuse as a child from a parent who threatens to kill you in various ways through words or actions still falls under this. Sexual violence yep CSA.

I get why some people want CPTSD in the DSM but I see no way it’s going to make much in the way of change. If you feel strongly it will revolutionize healthcare, you might not be seeing the right providers. The right provider sees the how the C part influences YOU and makes changes to their practice to help you. Not some prescription that applies to all.

I see combat ptsd as it’s own type, personally. I’m aware it’s not one event at all, but it’s also really not the same as CPTSD from child abuse.

I think of single event ptsd as like you were raped one time as an adult, you were held hostage at an armed robbery, or you were in a car accident. Not to dismiss this kind of ptsd, but it’s also really not the same as combat or CPTSD.

 

[anthony]

CPTSD from child abuse

CPTSD is not exclusive to childhood trauma. Research many years back had already dumped most combat trauma into CPTSD, due to the type of repetitive trauma and how it changes the persons self being, their self identity. It was originally believed that identity only changed in childhood, that core level, but research over the past 20 years has found that that is not true at all. CPTSD was originally shaped around personality disorders, but that is why CPTSD was not integrated into personality disorders, as that would have isolated it to childhood trauma only. This very area of discussion is what conflicted many experts in the field about CPTSD and its integration into doctrine. Instead, research found that self core identity can change from immense trauma at any age, hence CPTSD has shifted away from being a buddy with personality disorders and into the trauma/stressor field.