New T - feedback on his lack of acknowledgment would be helpful

[beaneeboo]

Haven't been on here for a while as have tried to focus on me and new therapy (am 6 sessions in).

All in all, he's calm, gentle, not pushy and I don't have any major concerns at this point. Just waiting for the relationship to develop in its own time.

He is trying to encourage me to work with parts which I feel a block towards doing. No worries, we're just working through it.

However, my main niggle which I can't let go of and need a bit of advice on, is that part of me wanted to share quite a big piece of my trauma history with him by email, and so I did. This is work I've done with a previous T and I just wanted it out in the open because I don't want it looming and felt it could be brought into the room, mainly for his knowledge so a few things make sense. It's by no means all my history, but is a big one for me.

At the session after, once he'd read it during the week, we addressed some aspects of what I shared, but he didn't once refer to it in an empathic way. There was no 'I'm sorry you went through that' or 'That must have been an incredibly difficult time'. No reflecting back of his own feelings in relation to what I shared.

It all felt a bit clinical. He is a clinical Psychologist! My spidey sense tells me he actually isn't sure what to say or how to react yet until he knows me a bit more and doesn't want to say the wrong thing. So it may be coming from a place of care.

But really, as a trauma survivor, validation and empathy is so important. And I think it's also something therapeutic relationships can be built on.

I really don't want to have to go back to tell him 'Please be more empathic' .. that really isn't my role.

And I guess unfortunately, his lack of acknowledgement of any emotions attached to what I shared have kick started a few old voices about how what I experienced wasn't a big deal, wasn't trauma and isn't worthy of therapy etc.

Not even sure what I'm asking here.

Maybe just thoughts?

 

[Ecdysis]

One thing I've found with specialised trauma T's is that even when we tell them the worst stuff that's ever happened to us... They've heard things from other clients that are a 100 or 1000 times worse. Because even when things are really, really bad... there's always "even worse" trauma out there... You know, like if someone had 3 kids and all 3 kids died in an accident... that's horrible... But recently there were landslides in Papua New Guinea where whole villages where flattened and everyone was killed. Imagine someone being away from home when that happened and them losing all their family members, extended family, neighbours, peers, friends and everyone in their village that they spent their entire lives with. And of course, that can be topped by everyone you love and know being murdered viciously in a war, etc etc etc...

In one sense , that's been a very reassuring thing for me when working with specialised trauma T's - that I know for a fact that they've dealt with cases far, far worse than mine. Because I know that means they can handle my trauma stuff, even when I feel like I can't. At the same time, it's daunting/ humbling, knowing that my trauma stuff is "small" compared to what some other clients have gone through.

Having said that, your T remaining emotionally neutral may be one of his personal coping mechanisms when dealing with the awful trauma that his clients present him with. Not an ideal coping mechanism, granted, but maybe one of his ways of coping...?

I think it could be good if you tell him that his emotional neutrality makes you question your experiences... that his neutrality is feedback that registers in your brain as "Oh, he thinks my trauma is more or less neutral and no big deal."

And then give him the room and space to reply to that.

That's not a criticism of his "not being empathic enough".

It's important client feedback about where your brain goes when it receives a neutral response to sharing traumatic content.

Oh and hi! Nice to see you

 

[scout86]

There was no 'I'm sorry you went through that' or 'That must have been an incredibly difficult time'. No reflecting back of his own feelings in relation to what I shared.

Maybe this is just me, or maybe it's a generational thing, IDK. Personally, I HATE the "I'm sorry that happened to you" crap. That's a formula people say because they feel like they have to say SOMETHING. I guess they think the right thing to do is say something that sounds "empathetic". Doesn't really matter. They're just words and they can be pretty empty.

Maybe that was too harsh. I think it's more important that YOU believe what happened to you mattered. As far as being "worthy" of therapy.......Seems like anything that causes a problem in your life is "worthy" of getting some help. You don't "deserve" help only because you had the worst trauma ever. You just deserve help because people do deserve help.

How does it matter how he feels about this? The goal isn't about his feelings, is it? It's about helping you deal with the results of life events. It's pretty unlikely he doesn't have feelings about the bad stuff people do to each other, isn't it? I kind of like the idea that maybe he's waiting to know more about you and the impact events had on you before he shares his feelings about it. It might be worthwhile if he learns that you second guess the validity of your experiences. That's something worth dealing with, as a part of dealing with the trauma.

I suppose I see this the way I do because I don't necessarily trust what people say. I'm WAY more interested in how they behave and it takes awhile to sort that out. It's easy for people to parrot a formula like "I'm sorry for your loss". What matters more, to me, is how they behave in the long run.

 

[Friday]

I really don't want to have to go back to tell him 'Please be more empathic' .. that really isn't my role.

I’d disagree.

I think that a) advocating for myself, b) communicating my needs & wants to people I expect to fulfill them, c) checking my cognitive distortions as I become aware of them (like assuming mind-reading is his role), and d) being as open & honest as I can be, by putting things on the table… falls dead center in “my role”.

But really, as a trauma survivor, validation and empathy is so important. And I think it's also something therapeutic relationships can be built on.

It absolutely can be, for some trauma survivors.

For other trauma survivors, like me? I was there. I not only don’t need someone telling me water is wet, but when they do so? At best I can turn it into a joke that makes it clear this shit reeeeally doesn’t fly with me, & don’t do that; more typically it slams my walls -and any possibility of trusting this person, for the foreseeable future- down; and at worst, having to deal with someone else’s emotions on top of my own is tick-tick-BOOM! (Explosively bad.) I’d rather someone physically assault me, than ooze their feelings at me; when I’m already having enough trouble managing my own emotions, I don’t want theirs shoved down my throat.

You & I both have strong opinions about, and experience with, validation & empathy. For you that’s what builds a therapeutic relationship, for me it destroys them. Other people? Have different needs/wants & end results.

Since this is a new therapist? He has nooooo way to know if you’re someone like you, or someone like me, or someone unlike either of us.

Over time, if he’s any good at his job, he’d learn what works best with you… or you could simply tell him, and get to building that relationship now.

 

[Charbella]

But really, as a trauma survivor, validation and empathy is so important.

I also disagree this is a trauma survivor need.

When I first started sharing things with my therapist I said I needed zero empathy. Since then we’ve discussed a lot and for me it comes down to before abuse there was always this kindness, so it triggers me. My head prepares to flee. If my T had started out with any sort of kind response I wouldn’t have come back so I told him that.

If you wanted empathy you should have communicated it because we aren’t all going to respond in the same way. Neutral is the best way to respond to a relatively new client who just shared something they knew had to be hard. I wish more people in my life could be neutral when I say something.

 

[beaneeboo]

Hi @Ecdysis , good to see you too and I'm liking your new profile pic!

thanks for your input, really helpful as ever...

I think it could be good if you tell him that his emotional neutrality makes you question your experiences... that his neutrality is feedback that registers in your brain as "Oh, he thinks my trauma is more or less neutral and no big deal."

And then give him the room and space to reply to that.

That's not a criticism of his "not being empathic enough".

It's important client feedback about where your brain goes when it receives a neutral response to sharing traumatic content.

This is really helpful and I like this suggestion. I'm a bit worried by saying stuff to him about his reactions and non reactions how he takes it, as I don't want to criticise. But this seems like a good approach ..

 

[LunaticOnTheFritz]

@beaneeboo as you said, you're only 6 days in. The T is at least listening and probably reviewing things to try to come up with a plan to help. Hope it goes well for you.

 

[sidptitala]

we addressed some aspects of what I shared, but he didn't once refer to it in an empathic way

as a trauma survivor, validation and empathy is so important. And I think it's also something therapeutic relationships can be built on.

his lack of acknowledgement of any emotions attached to what I shared have kick started a few old voices about how what I experienced wasn't a big deal, wasn't trauma and isn't worthy of therapy etc.

I also struggle with this neutral blank slate style of therapist when I've encountered it. And I think you're right that when you have not ever had sympathy for what you experienced and had a lot of people making it out to be no big deal- you do need, from one person in your life- recognition that you've suffered. Once you've had that from another human being, I think it opens the door to being able to benefit from the more clinical style.

Another thing to consider is the role that email format played. For me personally I've tended to dissociate when speaking about hard subjects and not looking at the other person as I'm talking helps me to do that, and so does email. But not really being there with the other person means I don't see them and don't feel relief from talking about it. I've realised that I need to pay attention and try to stay here when talking in order to feel witnessed, which itself feels necessary. I wonder if emailing about it took that opportunity away from you.

I think it could be good if you tell him that his emotional neutrality makes you question your experiences.

That's not a criticism of his "not being empathic enough".

It's important client feedback about where your brain goes when it receives a neutral response to sharing traumatic content.

I agree with this. I would also say that not all therapists are great at empathy even if you ask. And that it's better to change if over a period of time you have discussed this with him but it feels like it's harming you. But plenty of therapists will project a blank slate at the start until they figure out what you need. And telling him this is a good way to figure out which one it is.

 

[beaneeboo]

Maybe this is just me, or maybe it's a generational thing, IDK. Personally, I HATE the "I'm sorry that happened to you" crap. That's a formula people say because they feel like they have to say SOMETHING. I guess they think the right thing to do is say something that sounds "empathetic". Doesn't really matter. They're just words and they can be pretty empty.

I mean I prob chose a poor example of a therapist giving empathy ... I think I was trying to get across the importance for me at this stage in my healing of having some sort of emotional feedback which helped me to see he wasn't thinking what my own insecurities were telling me about what he thinks about it all...

Maybe that was too harsh. I think it's more important that YOU believe what happened to you mattered. As far as being "worthy" of therapy.......Seems like anything that causes a problem in your life is "worthy" of getting some help. You don't "deserve" help only because you had the worst trauma ever. You just deserve help because people do deserve help.

This is helpful thank you.

How does it matter how he feels about this?

you're absolutely right and thank you for reminding my adult brain about

It might be worthwhile if he learns that you second guess the validity of your experiences. That's something worth dealing with, as a part of dealing with the trauma.

I think my issue is really all around this... I've spent 35 years denying it happened, battled with the severely critical voice which surfaces any time I thought about it, dissociation and not being able to speak in therapy... not wanting anyone else to know or acknowledge for how physically sick I felt about it... and I've done ALOT of work over the last 18 months to be able to discuss parts with my old therapist and got to the stage where I want the info out, so I can get it out the way and concentrate on the rest of my therapy journey... and the issues coming up for me now is about validation... which I guess is a big step compared to where I was... next step, not giving a **** how other people judge my experience...

I suppose I see this the way I do because I don't necessarily trust what people say. I'm WAY more interested in how they behave and it takes awhile to sort that out. It's easy for people to parrot a formula like "I'm sorry for your loss". What matters more, to me, is how they behave in the long run.

Yes I can see this

Hope you're well

 

[beaneeboo]

I’d disagree.

I think that a) advocating for myself, b) communicating my needs & wants to people I expect to fulfill them, c) checking my cognitive distortions as I become aware of them (like assuming mind-reading is his role), and d) being as open & honest as I can be, by putting things on the table… falls dead center in “my role”.

I really appreciate this feedback and this is why I come can get to hear what others have to say especially when it's truthful and useful... helpful in an encouraging way ..

I'm pretty bad at the mind reading thing. I expected my old T to read my mind and I can see this happens in the real world...

You're right, I need to take responsibility to communicate what I was thinking and feeling... that's really really hard for me to do and not sure how to... prob by email... but I like taking this angle

It absolutely can be, for some trauma survivors.

For other trauma survivors, like me? I was there. I not only don’t need someone telling me water is wet, but when they do so? At best I can turn it into a joke that makes it clear this shit reeeeally doesn’t fly with me, & don’t do that; more typically it slams my walls -and any possibility of trusting this person, for the foreseeable future- down; and at worst, having to deal with someone else’s emotions on top of my own is tick-tick-BOOM! (Explosively bad.) I’d rather someone physically assault me, than ooze their feelings at me; when I’m already having enough trouble managing my own emotions, I don’t want theirs shoved down my throat.

Yeah u think I came to the conclusion, having written the post and then reading responses, that T is likely playing his cards neutral as we don't know each other that well, and he's not sure of the most helpful response for me yet, because he likely works with other survivors who react in a different way, are at a different point in their journey ... so this is helpful for me not to carry on down the more paranoid route I could have gone down

You & I both have strong opinions about, and experience with, validation & empathy. For you that’s what builds a therapeutic relationship, for me it destroys them. Other people? Have different needs/wants & end results.

Since this is a new therapist? He has nooooo way to know if you’re someone like you, or someone like me, or someone unlike either of us.

This

Over time, if he’s any good at his job, he’d learn what works best with you… or you could simply tell him, and get to building that relationship now.

That's the hard bit. Mouth is taped shut. But I can email

 

[beaneeboo]

I also disagree this is a trauma survivor need.

Not sure anyone else has said it's not a trauma survivor need. I think the idea more is that it's a need for some (prob those at particular stage of journey) and not others. Everyone's different. And it's been a need of mine at this stage of my journey. And I'm a trauma survivor.

When I first started sharing things with my therapist I said I needed zero empathy. Since then we’ve discussed a lot and for me it comes down to before abuse there was always this kindness, so it triggers me. My head prepares to flee. If my T had started out with any sort of kind response I wouldn’t have come back so I told him that.

Makes sense

If you wanted empathy you should have communicated it

i don't really do shoulds in the world of trauma... don't think I've done anything wrong, or felt anything wrong. Feelings are feelings, not right or wrong. The relationship we have is going to be really long term.. so there is time for these things to be chewed over and then apprached in a different way later

because we aren’t all going to respond in the same way

true

. Neutral is the best way to respond to a relatively new client who just shared something they knew had to be hard.

yes i agree, and like i said above, I've come to this conclusion too and can see, now with more insight, its really the only reaction he has available to him.

I wish more people in my life could be neutral when I say something.

Good luck with that!

 

[beaneeboo]

@beaneeboo as you said, you're only 6 days in. The T is at least listening and probably reviewing things to try to come up with a plan to help. Hope it goes well for you.

Thanks alot @LunaticOnTheFritz .. I think you're right...