News Another Shooting In The Us

[Philippa]

I'm not gonna go there with you anthony. I do see where you are coming from though, and as someone who once lived with and loved a journalist for the Department of Immigration, who was also a scottish immigrant whose family came here legally, I know that the issue is not an easy one for the government and I don't envy the person in charge of that (is it still Amanda Vanstone?)

I think until we walk a mile in someone elses shoes, it's hard to know what desperate circumstances made them decide to take an alternative like risking their lives and their childrens lives on a boat to be smuggled to a place where they want to have a life free from torture and oppression. I certainly don't believe that putting children in jail/detention is healthy psychologically, and whether it's the parents fault or not, it's wrong to inflict that on children for their parents mistake...regardless of how many perks they may receive that other members of the Australian community are not privy to, and how unfair that is.

 

[anthony]

My point was more every country has its issues. It would be an interesting debate though about refugee intake within countries. Its limits, impact, costs, etc. America has a huge illegal issue that is costing their country enormously...

 

[Philippa]

My point was more every country has its issues. It would be an interesting debate though about refugee intake within countries. Its limits, impact, costs, etc. America has a huge illegal issue that is costing their country enormously...

Surely would. That's why I didn't want to get into it with you here...don't wanna derail this topic.

But yeah, every country has it's issues, and if there is an easy solution the government usually won't take it, or take forever granting it legitimacy.:D (I'm thinking sustainable living in Australia now.)

 

[The Albatross]

Gun ownership is in our founding documents to prevent civil tyrrany by our own government. We reserve the right to revolt. Our founding fathers were anti-colonialists, we kicked out the British and turned our backs on their system of government and found our own model.

Perhaps Oz is more like Great Britian that our US after all. We are anti-Colonialists. You all still have a monarchy or something right? I seem to remember a queen or something. We reject that sort of thing... or politicians serve at our pleasure. We chose not to suck at the teet of our government, but to risk some infractions committed by the few, in order to protect the rights of the many.

It is not mankind's base nature to be lawful, civil or empathetic. One quick history lesson about tribalism will dispell that notion in short order. Prisoners who are incarcerated make weapons with anything handy... It's not because it's a hobby like basket weaving or macrame' --- it's to do bodily harm to people.

Wake up peeps... it's not the object that's the problem... it's the state of the person who's possesses it:

 

[Philippa]

Yes, many of us are wanting for it to become a sovereignty, with no monarchy, including myself.

We are heavily influenced and becoming more and more like America...but not in the ways that are all revolution like, which I would personally prefer. If we had a bit more gumption and dismissed the queen, then we'd be able to establish our own identity.

Don't worry, I'm just as harsh on my own country as I am on other peoples.:D

 

[Loner]

But then the idea of guns repulse me.

I think this is basically what it boils down to for lots of folks. Guns are 'icky'. End of story for most anti gun people.

Hunting is far far far more humane than getting store bought meat. You're killing a wild animal who has lived a completely natural life mostly free of any human influence or meddling, and giving it (if you're a halfway decent hunter) a quick painless death, which even if it isnt perfectly instantaneous, is a lot quicker and less painful than any other death it could expect in the wild from non human predators, disease, starvation, freezing to death, being hit by a car, etc. Every animal that is killed and eaten by hunters is one less animal that is raised and tortured for its entire life as part of the livestock industry. You mention organic freerange ranching, those animals still don't have even close to the quality of life a wild animal does, the main difference between them and a normal livestock animal is supposed health benefits to the person eating them. You said you'd RATHER go vegetarian or support freerrange, but in actuality, do you? If you eat animal products of any sort, including dairy, you have just as much blood on your hands as a hunter. Commercial dairy cows are treated very poorly. I'm guessing you eat store bought meat, and dairy, but just think guns are 'icky' and don't think about the rest, cus in reality its less about the actual practical morality of things, and basically just boils down to the fact that guns are 'icky' and you think the people that own them are 'nuts'.

And don't be purposely daft, we you suggest with HORROR that I implied its recreation to kill animals. I said I own them for recreation and entertainments sake, AS WELL AS to harvest meat. Target shooting is fun. Sounds like you should try it sometime, its calming, its like meditation only better.

 

[Philippa]

I like the idea of hunting and killing what I need for meat. It's only fair really, to the beast, plus I like the idea of being engaged in the predator/prey dynamic in nature. I did have a friend who was supposed to teach me how to hunt, as he goes every year and brings back venison...but we aren't friends anymore, so...

I've heard shooting a gun is good for stress relief.

 

[Queen Boudica]

Yes I do even though I have very little money I do support free range and organic and that is all I buy. So don't presume to know who or what I am about. And what is nuts is people trying to read other peoples minds and put words into them. That stinks that is just what controllers do

 

[Loner]

I don't see how shooting an animal can be done humanely in a hunting situation

Humane as opposed to what? Starvation, being eaten my coyotes, hit by a car? Raised on a 'freerange' farm then slaughtered? A good shoot puts the animal down immeidiatly, its just lights out. Its about the quickest death possible. The connections responsible for sensing pain are terminated before they are able to even transmit the fact that anything is wrong. Even a poor shot puts the animal down within about 30 seconds. That is a heck of a lot quicker than any other death it could expect. This is also why semi automatic rifles are good, quick follow up shot to ensure the longest the animal has to suffer is perhaps a few seconds.

 

[Philippa]

I do agree it is more humane than rounding them all up, where they can hear the other cows getting a bullet in the brain, and just waiting their turn, knowing what is just around the corner, with all that fear coursing through their veins...which we then consume.

Hunters used to give thanks to the animal as they killed it, for feeding their families. I have a feeling animals are a lot more detached about life and death than we are...just a hunch.

I did hear that the adrenaline that rushes through the animals blood when it is being hunted makes the meat tough? Is this true?

 

[Queen Boudica]

And yes guns repulse me because they KILL people FULL STOP. Not because they are icky as you so condescendingly write.

 

[The Albatross]

If people in our area didn't hunt, we'd be over populated with wild hog and deer. We have many responsible sportsmen and women here, and we eat what we shoot. That the rule of our home as well. My mister brought home squirrel once, and guess what. I made darned sure he ate it. Culling some animal populations is better than letting them overpopulate, become disease ridden, or starve during the winters because there's not enough food to sustain them.

I scout, I track, on occasion... even been known to sit in a tree stand... though I don't hunt. I just go with my mister when a hunting buddy is not available. But I seem to recall another thread about this somewhere. This is really way off track considering the original post was: "... America how many mass shootings will it take? Something has to change doesn't it?"

Hmmm. Yep something has to change... perception has to change in my opinion. Anyone who commits an act like that is a criminal plain and simple and the sooner all y'all realize that no amount of civil discussion or changes in who can lawfully possess a fire arm is going to stop someone who want's a weapon to commit a crime - namely homicide, in this case to get one.

At some point, the rational perception is that even in the most controlled enviornments (my example was penetentuaries or people who are already incarcerated in prison) --- if someone want's to do bodily harm to someone else, they're going to find a way and make one. No amount of regulation or law making is ever going to stop it. They'll just commit the crime with another weapon... like the man in Perth who killed his wife by blugeoning her to death with a frozen Kangaroo tail.