Sufferer Hi There, Secondary Ptsd From Domestic Violence In India

[Joya]

Hey everyone,

I'm dealing with secondary PTSD from domestic violence in my host family when I was living abroad in a small, conservative city in India. I also have related trauma specific to the extreme forms of patriarchy I experienced there. I struggle both with men as a trigger in general and with closeness to good men in my life. Finding it hard to find folks to relate to, as many people have experienced sexual violence firsthand, or don't know much about the culture of where I was living, or have trouble contextualizing my queerness. And of course there's the other extraneous judgments of a type I'm sure many of you are subjected to--assuming my PTSD is a political identification as a "man-hating lesbian," assuming that it means I hate transmen, assuming that it proves Indians are somehow inherently more sexist. Oh man.

I've been living with trauma for almost two years, since eight months after my year abroad and right after I returned from my second trip. Anyone else in a similar kip? I'd love to hear from you!

 

[KP the nut]

Hi Joya and welcome to the forum.

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

Welcome to the forum. :)

 

[anthony]

Hi Joya, and welcome to the forum.

First question. How do you figure you have secondary PTSD? Do you know what secondary PTSD is, and that it is not a diagnosis?

Second question. Why is your post leaning towards homosexuality as some type of indifference?

Third question. Why do you find it appropriate to isolate culture in relation to expressing your trauma?

 

[Joya]

1. I have been diagnosed with PTSD, but it's secondary trauma.
   
   
2. I'm not sure what you're asking here. Try rephrasing it.
   
   
3. I'm not entirely sure of your question here, but part of what traumatized me was the ways in which patriarchy (and the threat of sexual violence therein) permeated the culture of the city I was living in. It's much easier to understand why some things would be problematic for me if you understand the cultural context they grew out of. Also, as I said before, it can difficult to explain to folks who aren't from that culture what happens there without feeling like you're opening the whole thing up for their judgments on that culture. So yes, that stuff matters.

Thanks for the welcome! :)

 

[Deleted member 1860]

I'm so confused...I googled "secondary trauma" and it says it arises when you try to help someone else who has been traumatized. But this doesn't seem to be exactly what you're explaining.

Regardless, welcome to the forum!

 

[anthony]

Hey Joya,

Could you please explain "secondary trauma" and what you mean by that? I ask because I'm trying to understand how you've come to these terms. Secondary PTSD (trauma) is typically cited enduring trauma from someone who was also traumatised / had PTSD. Children of PTSD sufferers, is an example, of secondary PTSD. Some call it, secondary trauma. Basically, the parents untreated PTSD causes them to abuse their child. Whilst the trauma is abuse, there is a term used, being secondary trauma.

Is that what you were living? Living with those abused, who were then perpetuating that abuse cycle?

And of course there's the other extraneous judgments of a type I'm sure many of you are subjected to--assuming my PTSD is a political identification as a "man-hating lesbian," assuming that it means I hate transmen

The above is my reference to the second question. I don't understand why you have assumed that people would think anything about PTSD in relation to homosexuality. What has homosexuality got to do with your trauma? If a man has raped you, and you are a lesbian, that has nothing to do with homosexuality, and I don't envisage many would really care what your sexual preferences are, to be perfectly honest. Rape is rape, regardless of sexual preference.

I ask about culture, because you identify Indian culture. Was the culture what also traumatised you? That is not uncommon, though I'm not sure a different way of life should be held accountable for that.

I've been to third world countries, lived in them, and there are issues, no doubt about it. But I'm not sure I would lump the whole culture into the same basket. There are nasty people in all cultures. Some have a minority, some have a majority. One also has to assess the political structure of the country and how its ran. Are the people just trying to survive themselves? The will to live is a very strong thing. It doesn't discriminate between cultures, between humanity. Poverty increases crime, no doubt about it. Does it make an entire culture criminals? No.

Honestly, if you say you hate something, just say it. If you ask me about Indonesians, I will tell you I hate a good majority of that population. They really are a very nasty, core level, people. Their country is corrupt, politicians keep them poor and themselves rich, so a high number of them have no respect for others lives, well-being or anything much else. Not all, but a good majority of them I do truly hate.

I've never actually seen another culture though like Indonesians. They really are true criminals, really spiteful, hateful people. They will smile whilst about to rob you, beat you, rape you or kill you, no issues.

I've never seen that in Indians or Afghans or Sri-Lankan's, etc. The majority, whilst poor, still tend to be good, honest people. There is a high crime rate, though most don't commit crimes against people, more stealing for food, etc. There is a high crime rate in America, though most Americans are good, honest people, just going about their own business, minding their own business. Like most countries are around the world. Africa... some of the best people I've ever met have been Africans. Their life is nothing short of disastrous, yet they keep themselves honest.

I guess that is my point. You seem mad at someone. At a culture maybe. It's ok to just say it and nut it all out. Someone may say that Indonesians are good as a majority. Not from my direct experience across that country and dealing with them, they're not. Yet the rest of the world... not too bad overall.

 

[Abstract]

Welcome Joya. Sorry these things happened to you.

 

[Shellbell]

I think culture can play a part. In some cultures, the husbands are dominant and the wives are meant to be submissive and do as there husbands wish. You see this in cultures where the wives need to walk 5 steps behind the husband to show respect.

I have seen this a lot whilst living in the UK - which is very multi-cultural. I have a fair amount of knowledge of the culture within Pakistani 'traditional' Muslim marriages, where many wives are not allowed to work, unless within a family business. They are not allowed to talk to men they do not know, they are not allowed the freedom that I expect to receive within my marriage. The husband often controls all of the finances and the wife has no imput into this and has to account for every penny spent. There are these are very controlling relationships and can be defined as abuse. Is the level of controlling, 'abuse' etc in most of these marriage enough to cause PTSD, well that's debatable.

There also seems to be more abuse within Muslim marriages from the Mother-in-law. It seems acceptable that the mother-in-law have more say than the wife in a marriage. Abuse occurs due to this also.

There are also often high expectations put on the children and their education expectations are high. Arranged marriages at often very young ages are also still very prevalent. Again there are those who feel this is abuse.

I am certainly not saying abuse occurs in all Muslim marriages, absolutley not, it is just my experience having had many lovely Pakistani friends in school and what I have learned about their parents, their marriages.

 

[Joya]

Wow. This is not quite the welcome I expected at this website. I am surprised and concerned, Anthony, that you, as a moderator, would have such a limited knowledge of the social injustices that bring trauma to many, and that you feel so free in challenging new people on the site. Luckily, I am not in such desperate need that I require an online forum for some kind of PTSD support. I came on looking for like-minded people. Maybe they’re on here, somewhere else. But if folks respond this way to many of them, then it’s very possible they are not. I ask you what has motivated you to focus in on me as a new member.

Anthony, you are reading words that I have not written, and coming to conclusions that I have not come to in my posts. My diagnosis was that I have PTSD, secondary trauma. I can give you more details on a rainy day. I hope that I don’t have to provide some sort of proof or documentation to use this site. I didn’t “assume… that people would think anything about PTSD in relation to homosexuality,” some people just up and started to do it! Maybe you aren’t aware of this stereotype, but there’s a stereotype that goes along the lines of, “Oh, well, she was abused and now she hates men, that must be why she is a lesbian.” Sometimes people play into that! It makes me angry. And yes, of course rape is rape. But guess what? Sexual and other forms of violence because of sexual orientation happens all the time. (The FBI reported that 19.3% of hate crimes were due to sexual orientation in 2010.) In some ways, being closeted and queer abroad, and being queer in a world that abuses and murders my community, is traumatizing in itself. But it wasn’t the main cause of my trauma. It just has made it more difficult for some people to understand my PTSD.

On culture… I’m not sure where to start with your post. First, I’m not holding another entire culture accountable for my trauma. I actually said something more along opposite lines. I’m saying that since I became traumatized in a culture drastically different than the country I grew up in, those triggers and the cultural context for trauma can be hard for people here to understand. Additionally, I find it hard to talk about because I feel like people will start blaming all of Indian culture for what happened to me, specifically, in one city and time. I don't want to perpetuate racist assumptions or to inspire other white folks to try to save brown women from brown men. I’m not lumping anything into one basket. That is laughably hard to do with any type of integrity in the Subcontinent.

What did you mean when you said, “Poverty increases crime, no doubt about it. Does it make an entire culture criminals? No.”? If you meant that poor people are often criminals but the well-off are all good, then I have to disagree—so often, the wealthy, having money and power, create the conditions of poverty for others in the first place.

Also, I disagree that some cultures have a minority of "nasty" people while others have a majority. (I don’t feel that good and bad exist in absolutes anyway, and certainly not in people, but for the sake of time I’ll use those words in this post.) There are “good” and “bad” people anywhere, but there aren’t some cultures that are better or worse than others. That’s ethnocentric. I don’t believe in ranking whole cultures and lumping them all together, but you did do that in your post. In particular, you clearly have a lot of prejudice against Indonesians. Don’t project that onto me. I never said I hated Indians. I never said I hated anyone.

I will give you a few statistics so you are aware of the wider context of terror and danger in which I developed PTSD. India is number four in a 2011 study done by the Thomson Reuters Foundation expert poll on the most dangerous countries for women which cited "[f]emale foeticide, child marriage and high levels of trafficking and domestic servitude...". (I would give the link but don't have enough posts yet to post links. Can be found on trust.org as a 6/15/11 article.) 45% of Indian women in reported gender-based violence in 1999. (“Predicting Vulnerability of Indian Women to Domestic Violence Incidents,” Debarchana Ghosh, Research and Practice in Social Sciences Vol 3. No. 1 Aug. 2007, 48-72) This means that the actual number is much, much higher, as gender-based violence is very underreported as a rule. I can go on, but I’ll leave it for now.

You are right about one thing: I am mad. I am livid. I am annoyed at people who seem to think my struggles are illegitimate, but who have never recognized the reality in which they take place. It is those people who, through voicing ignorance and prejudice, help to perpetuate the systems of inequality in which we live. It is those systems which I hate, those systems which I work to subvert however I am able. I thought this would be a place that could support me, but I guess I was wrong. I hope that this website is helpful and not too destructive towards others. I might stick around and see if anyone else here agrees with me or if I can support other folks who might need it. Although I am very surprised that you had no context for understanding my circumstances, and I feel it is pretty ridiculous that it was necessary for me to write a long post defending what should pretty easy to get, I hope that you understand where I am coming from now.

 

[Joya]

Shellbell, thanks for your post. It's definitely not a problem only in some Muslim relationships. Sexism, domestic violence, and sexual assault is a problem in every culture, though it can express itself in different ways. Violence against women ranks as the number one health concern for women across the world.

 

[Nicolette]

Welcome Joya

Wow. This is not quite the welcome I expected at this website. I am surprised and concerned, Anthony, that you, as a moderator, would have such a limited knowledge of the social injustices that bring trauma to many, and that you feel so free in challenging new people on the site.

I am sorry the response you received from Anthony is not one you expected or perhaps even liked. I think it might be helpful for you to know we are encouraged to ask questions when we don't understand or seek clarification rather than make the wrong assumption.

I'm not defending Anthony as he is big enough to do that himself however I will say, from what I skimmed over I saw a lot of question marks. Maybe you both aren't on the same page?

Also, as a moderator, our major function is to ensure the site runs safely and efficiently for all members - it is not to be highly educated on all aspects of PTSD. I have learned as I have gone along and I know Anthony spends a lot of time researching PTSD so, as I know him, I see his questions coming from an angle of trying to understand what you are saying as I find it a little hard to wrap my head around the actual trauma from your opening post. I know quite a few Indians who are lovely and have never been educated on such cultural traits that you touch on.

This comment of yours has me totally confused

And of course there's the other extraneous judgments of a type I'm sure many of you are subjected to--assuming my PTSD is a political identification as a "man-hating lesbian," assuming that it means I hate transmen, assuming that it proves Indians are somehow inherently more sexist. Oh man.

as I don't know how you would assume I would even think such a think from the little you have written let alone have a thought process that went along those lines as I don't understand what you are saying sorry.

I am wondering if you are already on the back foot defending before even speaking based on your experiences to date?

We are here to support you if you allow us but in order to do that we need to understand at a reasonable level and that comes from asking questions. I feel you are very defensive and sensitive which may be warranted by your past experiences but in my opinion, it is somewhat judgmental to assume we are like others in your past.