Attachment Issues

[Pencil]

bash at a complex topic

Springer, I still don't have an answer, but I think you may be onto something. I never made a connection with my physical, erm, difficulties and attachment issues, but I can see that there is a connection. It manifests differently for us, so I don't think chronic fatigue specifically is related to attachment, I think it can have a very wide variety of physical manifestations.

 

[Pencil]

Abstract

Regarding therapists and saving lives:

I agree with you. Therapists can't save lives. When at university I had a friend who, for some mysterious reason, spent a short time behaving like a crazy child. He went to the university's psychology services and got a young and inexperienced intern who ... had a lot to learn.

One day, he acted the drama queen, threatened suicide in front of the intern, stormed out, came to my house, flapped and ranted a lot. I suggested we go out for a beer (he was far too conscious of his good looks to take his behaviour public), so we went to a gay bar and eventually had a good time. When I dropped him off at his res, there was a note - hysterical with concern - from the intern on his desk! I've seen this type of thing, where people, through intractable negativity, or suicide gestures, or helplessness, or .... play their therapists like puppets.

BUT. I can honestly tell you that I had a psychologist who saved my life:

While at university, I started seeing a psychologist. She soon changed the fixed time slot to completely flexible: whenever I wanted to see her, I could phone and her receptionist gave me the first cancellation - usually within a day or two, if not on the same day. I could request a session as often as I wanted. I could phone her at home whenever I wanted (this was before internet :) ) ANY TIME OF THE DAY OR NIGHT. We spent time in sessions just yakking away. There was no plan, no .... nothing.

When her son died in a car accident she gave up her practice. I phoned periodically, and she invited me to her house. I still phone her around milestone events in my life, and each time, towards the end of the call she says, 'Will I see you?', and invite me to her house or we go out for a meal.

After she gave up her practice, I said to her that her 'style' was rather unconventional. She actually laughed, and gave me a long and full explanation. According to her, I was 'semi-disturbed' (her exact words) when I started seeing her. She decided against a fixed time slot as my background was one of rigidity and iron control. She didn't want to limit me to once a week, as my background had been limiting and frustrating enough. (Interestingly, I hardly ever asked for more than one session a week). She concluded with: 'Therapy was out of the question with you, all I could do was give you a place of normality".

And in the mean time I had started wondering if this woman was a fully trained psychologist :D

I've been saying for many years that A saved my life, and at the time I never had a clue of what she was doing, and giving me. Looking back it is clear that she provided one main thing, and that was a safe attachment - and it took many years to develop. It wasn't all moonshine and roses; there were difficult times as well - but I always found my way back to her.

I still have attachment issues, I still have other difficulties, but I think I would have been an irredeemable mess had it not been for her.

And so, while I absolutely agree with you that therapists can't save clients' lives, I have to tell you that one in fact did save mine :D. But I do think that when an individual goes into therapy with the explicit or implicit demand to be saved, it is another story.

 

[Pencil]

I can see now that my VERY unconventional introduction to therapy still makes it difficult for me to view 'common knowledge' about therapy as always true or always valid.

I often get annoyed when I hear/read statements about 'LAW' in therapy.

Let me take one example: Boundaries. I so often read statements that make boundaries seem like something sacrosanct that are crucial to protect the therapist against clients who would pillage consulting rooms without the magical powers of the boundary.

I read somewhere that the obsession with boundaries is in fact a RECENT development, which probably has more to do with the very litigious climate in the USA at the moment, rather than with actual therapeutic benefits or concerns per se. I don't doubt that with some people it is very necessary. But my point is that EVERY relationship in the world has boundaries, not only the therapeutic one.

Looking back today, I can see that A removed all the usual boundaries in therapy. And more interestingly, I can see that I never violated the 'invisible', normal boundaries. I did phone A in the middle of the night, a few times, such as the night my mother died. What was interesting was that her husband answered the phone, and when I asked to speak to A, he wanted to know who was speaking. When I gave him my name, he handed the phone to A. This means she must have told him that I could phone her at any time. The fact that I had that permission, and that she had gone as far as informing her husband, made me appreciate and value her 'being there' so much that I never wanted to jeopardize it.

The bottom line really is that I don't hold the same views on the rights and wrongs of therapy. I think every individual deserves nothing less than an individual approach. If A had imposed all the 'right' things on me, therapy would probably not have worked for me at that point in time. Which is obviously why she did what she did. I honestly think too many therapists go according to the book, and make a mess.

And I have gone off topic on my own thread again :cautious:. But perhaps I'm still thinking about how and why attachment worked with A.

 

[Springer80]

Hi Pencil I agree with your take on boundaries....re attachment and your relationship with A. There's something paradoxical about the nature of attachment and boundaries don't you think? A gave you more access than was 'therapeutically normal' :cautious: and it gave you security which meant you didn't need to ask too much of her. Attachment is something you can't intellectually construct and the more you try the more you learn it doesn't work??? (rubbing chin smiley face)

 

[Pencil]

I honestly think too many therapists go according to the book, and make a mess.

Correction: I think A still went 'according to the book' - I simply think she used more than one book. I think she had a library, while some therapists go according to one chapter in one outdated book.

 

[Springer80]

I read somewhere of a fashion for 'person centered therapy' which made me bust my sides.....:roflmao:

 

[Pencil]

Attachment is something you can't intellectually construct and the more you try the more you learn it doesn't work???

yeah, yeah, don't mock me, I'm slow!! :D

Point TAKEN - attachment happens while .....

 

[Pencil]

fashion for 'person centered therapy'

I would love to read it!

 

[Springer80]

yeah, yeah, don't mock me, I'm slow!! :D

Pencil! I'm shocked :eek: I would never mock :O_o: merely wonder out loud from the same side of confusion :D

 

['91 Girl]

Pencil, your T sounds very fascinating.

I don't have much to say, except that when T's are tuned into those things (and as a result, break a few conventional boundaries), it can be extremely beneficial to the relationship. Here's what I mean:

I contact my T many times in between our sessions. We have appointments every two weeks, so part of that is the time gap. But another part is my difficulty with speaking and comfort with writing. I have serious troubles saying things, but can write them to her without nearly as much difficulty, and she counsels me that way. I think a third factor, though, is what I have been through. A major part of my difficulties revolves around abandonment and people (especially parents) not being there when I needed, in the moment. I have learned to figure it out on my own, but in the meantime, I shut out all feelings and became cold, distant, and untrusting to everyone. So part of her approach is making sure that as difficulties arise, I am not alone. I don't have to go through a second of all of this chaos alone, and I always have a listening ear there. I don't get my hour, and then two weeks floundering around trying to make it until my next appointment. If I have a difficulty, I tell her and she helps. It doesn't make up for what was lost, but it does prove she is different than them.

Unconventional? Definitely. I get more out of our in-between conversations than out of our meetings. And she isn't being paid for that time out of her weekdays and weekends. But she is always there and always responds in more than a timely fashion (it really depends on how distressed I sound, haha). And I can rest in that, and trust in that.

 

[Pencil]

Unconventional? Definitely. I get more out of our in-between conversations than out of our meetings. And she isn't being paid for that time out of her weekdays and weekends. But she is always there and always responds in more than a timely fashion (it really depends on how distressed I sound, haha). And I can rest in that, and trust in that.

Girl, I didn't want to single out one section of your post, because you everything you say is very important. Some therapists do save lives, and it sounds as if yours is doing that as well. Saving a life does not always have to be dramatic, it is often a very subtle process that can take years.

I saw A when I went up for my sister's funeral in August 2012. While she was moving around the kitchen, making tea, it suddenly struck me that I loved her. While I was in therapy with her I never felt that, and in the years in-between I was never aware of it. But now that I'm getting older and have more distance, knowledge, perspective with which to look at the situation and at her, I realize how strong she is (despite being tiny and very feminine), with how much ease she handled me and my nonsense, and how much she gave me.

I totally relate to abandonment, and difficulty trusting. And therefor I know that, in my case at least, anything such as DBT or CBT or ABC or ZZZ would only annoy me. I would like to know how you feel about those approaches.

With my current T: we had a major hiccup after the December break, which coincided with financial difficulties, so I saw her only twice after the break. In the mean time she has been putting effort into resolving the issue with me. Also on her own time. I think while therapists (some) are so hysterical about boundaries etc, those who actually respond with common humanity and common sense are far, far, far more effective. But I also think that people with attachment / abandonment issues need a completely different approach than someone with 'straight' PTSD would, for example.

I'm so glad you have found this therapist! That ability to trust someone to be there is huge. I'm discovering this with my new T.

 

['91 Girl]

I'm on my phone, so I can't do that cool quote thing you all do, but I'll just go paragraph by paragraph through your response and comment. Sound good? ;)

Yes, I do agree. Although I could have probably survived for several more years without her, I wouldn't have truly had a life. It would literally have been survival. And eventually, I would probably have committed suicide. So as for saving my life, yes in a way.

It scares me that I care about her and what she thinks. And that I know she is doing everything she can to help me. I feel undeserving, so very much so. And it freaks me out that she can sidestep all my defenses with ease, and patiently handles all my outbursts as I attempt to drive her away again. It's not working and she's so darn persistent. A part of me wants to quit therapy simply because I don't think I deserve or can handle her knowing me that well and helping me. But I try to ignore that voice.

All of those ABC methods are great for techniques. And I have learned a lot from studying them on my own time. However, there's a large amount of difficulty that they don't repair. My T knows I know the techniques and doesn't spend much time on them (except as reminders). They are only useful up to a point, and I am using them as much as I can. But they don't fix everything.

I think part of her ability comes from having dealt with very similar things as me in her own life. She understands in an experiential way, and because of this, is much better at knowing exactly how to maneuver my internal chaos and bring peace where and when needed. I also don't waste as much time trying to get her to understand, because she knows what I mean. And sometimes she understands why I think and do what I do better than I do!