Teacher Told Me To Abuse My Kid.

[Nicolette]

I think there are some valid points here but I will say I disagree with the actual thread title as
* The teacher did NOT tell anyone to abuse a child nor did they abuse a child - the teacher expressed an opinion and gave it as advice
* The social worker gave advice based on how the situation was explained to them - an opinion
* My interpretation is the teacher was suggesting the child not enjoy themselves if not attending school (perhaps on the assumption that if you allow a child to throw a tantrum to avoid school with no consequence then the child can learn that tantrum = no school). This does not constitute violating a child's right as the child instigated the behaviour which could have led to non attendance.

 

[Eleanor]

I expect Nicolette's take on the teacher's intention is likely the most accurate one.

Just for clarification:

My understanding is that: In the U.S. denying a child access to school is officially/legally considered a form of "abuse." This is because the right to education is a basic human right. It is useful to child protective authorities because it gives them a legal avenue to intervene into genuinely abusive cults and family situations which seek to isolate children by keeping them out of public interactions. So, for example, if anyone had known that there was a six year old child living in the yard where Jaycee Dugard was held captive, who was not going to school - the police could have investigated and intervened on that fact along (mandatory school age being six years old in CA.) Of course, there are ways around this - for home-schoolers etc. - but these also require a certain level of supervision.

Interestingly enough there seems to be a pretty widespread "rethink" of the whole "suspend children from school as punishment" approach underway in my neck of the woods. It is long overdue, IMHO, as suspending children for skipping school (as they did to me!) has always struck me as being the very opposite of "making the punishment fit the crime!"

 

[Loveneverfails]

The teacher did NOT tell anyone to abuse a child

I will have to respectfully disagree with your opinion in turn Nicolette, my apologies. But in my opinion telling me to sit my kid in a chair for a few hours doing nothing is abusive and I'm fairly sure the authorities here would agree. She did not abuse my child, no. But her advice was for me to engage in a behavior that would be abusive. I actually have the email in which the discipline was described so I am able to review it.

And again I am sorry, but it was explained very clearly that denying the kid the right to school as part of discipline was quite plainly considered a violation of a child's rights which was what prompted my asking the question in the first place. It seems to me even my explanation to the social worker is under question now?

Further more, if the child is throwing the tantrum to avoid school, letting them stay home even if not having fun, hardly sounds like a solution.

-I would also like to note that after posting this I went to review that email to discover I'd forgotten she'd also advised me not to feed him his snack either. Though missing one snack(he has 3 meals and 2 snacks a day) isn't going to harm him, using the loss of a meal in general in discipline is also considered a violation of a child's rights. I DO have PTSD, but that does not make me so irrational that I am wrong or misinterpreting every single negative incidence in my life.

 

[Nicolette]

Well at a parenting class I found out from a social worker that would have constituted abuse as it would have denied his right to an education and was very serious.

If those are the facts then you made a good decision. I do however like to point out the teacher did not refuse your child education when you drove him to school... Perhaps what the teacher's views on 'punishment' were not appropriate but she did not carry them out, she wrote to you and said what she thought.

The problem here is I am not disputing any of your feelings or anger but without reading the email in its full context and knowing what you told the teacher, I am saying I don't believe that its appropriate to be judge, jury and executioner, opening yourself up for possible implications such as defamation of character without all your ducks in a row. If the title of this thread said 'Teacher May Have Told Me to Abuse My Child' I would not be commenting.

Your concerns are valid and I did not say anything alluding to

I DO have PTSD, but that does not make me so irrational that I am wrong or misinterpreting every single negative incidence in my life.

But her advice was for me to engage in a behavior that would be abusive. I actually have the email in which the discipline was described so I am able to review it.

See, here is where I see the grey area - the teacher gave you 'advice' (in your own words), the teacher did not refuse your child education, she, as I understand it, was giving her opinion on how to discipline your child surround the bus situation albeit that the 'punishment did not fit the crime' and you chose not to take that advice.

If the laws you mention are so concise and clear cut, are you then abusing your child if you take them out of school to go on a family holiday considering they are only 4 and a day or two or missed school will have little bearing on their education as a whole? What happens when you decide to keep your child home when they are sick? Is that denying them an education?

Again, let me spell it out very clearly, I am not saying the teacher's advice was appropriate nor am I dismissing your concerns - I just feel the thread title reflects you being judge, jury and executioner with your chosen words. I have articulated

I disagree with the actual thread title

not the content within the thread.

The teachers response to this was to deny him the right to school

Did the teacher use the word 'deny' in the context of receiving 'no education' or a once of means as an attempt to facilitate a method to encourage your child to go to school? Words can be misinterpreted, manipulated and taken out of context so I'm just asking.

Again - I am not disputing or disregarding your concerns. I just think that the advice of one day off school but accepting your child into class when you took him to school as not being consistent with 'abusive' intent of 'denying' your child and education.

 

[Loveneverfails]

Thanks for clarifying, I really do appreciate that. The context of the email was that she and the teachers aids(I include all 3 of them because she used the term 'we told') told my son that if he did not get on the bus, he would be sitting in a chair at home doing nothing the entire time with no snack and that I needed to make good on what they told him if he refused.

I really don't consider it defamation of character since I haven't mentioned her name and there is no reason anyone here would be able to connect the two but I also deeply appreciate you looking out for me in that manner because I hadn't thought of that possibility.

The law would view more than ten days(I believe) missed as means for concern and require proof of why it happened(i.e. a doctors note). Even one missed as a form of discipline(not vacation) would be considered a violation of the child's rights. The loss of school for even one day cannot be used as a viable means of discipline. One day would not be considered 'abuse' perhaps in the eyes of the law(just the same as one incident of striking a child) but it would still be abuse and would be wrong and had the potential to get me into hot water with CPS as it is enough to cause an inquiry just like one incident of striking a child. I guess my issue is that this teacher advised me to do this and that is essentially TELLING me to do it. She didn't abuse my child and I have never said she did. She told ME to and basically told my child I would.

 

[Nicolette]

Thank you for listening to my point of view. Clarity can be lost when a person is emotionally involved or invested.

I guess my issue is that this teacher advised me to do this and that is essentially TELLING me to do it.

I don't have a problem and can see your point of view. Sitting on the outside I still don't see how the teacher is telling you to 'abuse your child' but I am not fully aware of your laws so I am trying to understand.

Even one missed as a form of discipline(not vacation) would be considered a violation of the child's rights. The loss of school for even one day cannot be used as a viable means of discipline.

Okay, so that is the law- then what happens if the child refuses to go to school and you don't physically take them or make them?

Just taking that back to vacation, if parents were wealthy and traveled frequently during school terms, not implementing adequate 'home schooling' with a focus on their lifestyle, couldn't it be argued that they are inadvertently being abusive through their own desires?

One day would not be considered 'abuse' perhaps in the eyes of the law(just the same as one incident of striking a child) but it would still be abuse and would be wrong and had the potential to get me into hot water with CPS as it is enough to cause an inquiry just like one incident of striking a child.

So, self preservation is an issue here too? It seems you are smart enough not to follow bad advice and know what your responsibilities are :)

told my son that if he did not get on the bus, he would be sitting in a chair at home doing nothing the entire time with no snack and that I needed to make good on what they told him if he refused.

Having been a parent I can see both sides of this. Like Eleanor said above, I wonder if it would ease your mind to ask the teacher of what was meant by this as I don't read it as denying your son school but more of a failed choice of words in trying to perhaps use (bad?) 'consequences' as a means of trying to motivate your child to go to school. I believe if it was me I would feel it important to point this out in accordance to the law along with your concerns regards to absenteeism and CPS implications.

Loverneverfails, I admire your desire to protect your child and yourself - that is essential and any good mother would. Again, I am not challenging you and am trying to understand. If I was the teacher and by some random set of circumstances came across this thread I would be upset by the title just as you are upset about what they wrote to you........ I encourage you to perhaps use extracts of what you posted here and email it to the teacher explaining how their advice could have adverse effects and request they speak to you first before determining and implementing any strategies with your son as a form of discipline outside of the school realm without your agreement and support.

Good luck and keep fighting for what it right for you child :)

 

[Loveneverfails]

if parents were wealthy and traveled frequently during school terms, not implementing adequate 'home schooling' with a focus on their lifestyle, couldn't it be argued that they are inadvertently being abusive through their own desires?

Yes, that would be considered negligence and is a form of abuse. Not all abuse is painful or outright cruel. Letting a child have sex at a young age, providing drugs and alcohol, letting them stay up so late they deprive themselves of sleep or engaging in play that is unduly reckless can all be considered forms of negligence. Also if a child is younger than 16 they have to go or both the child and the parent can face charges of truancy.

I can certainly look at this from the teachers point of view. I can imagine how upset she'd be, but for me it comes down to trust. It's been a horrible struggle this year for me to have even a little of it knowing my ex has been talking to anyone who will listen about how horrible I am(I have to assume he's done this with the kids teacher as well) and then knowing my daughter has joined in several times with him saying I don't feed her, or I've spanked her or yell at her. I don't spank, I never refuse food and I like any parent occasionally yell but even that I'm careful about. So feeling like I could finally trust this teacher after so long working at it, only to go to this class and find out that trust might have been misplaced really sent me for a loop. I like this lady and I really mean that, I really needed her help with how to handle discipline because ordinary discipline methods don't work on kids with special needs(as the social workers at this class I am taking are teaching me) and I felt like she'd guided me into a method that would have harmed my child and that felt like the ultimate betrayal if that makes sense.

Thank you for talking me through it Nicolette, it's really helped to calm my nerves.

 

[Nicolette]

I like this lady and I really mean that, I really needed her help with how to handle discipline because ordinary discipline methods don't work on kids with special needs(as the social workers at this class I am taking are teaching me) and I felt like she'd guided me into a method that would have harmed my child and that felt like the ultimate betrayal if that makes sense.

This says volumes, more than anything else you have written.... if you said this to me as the teacher it would make me re-think my approach and also try to help more constructively. Maybe you will share this with her? :)

 

[Nicolette]

how to handle discipline because ordinary discipline methods don't work on kids with special needs

Maybe your social worker can help you bridge the gap with the teacher as, just like you, it's not normal for most of us to automatically and instinctively know how to handle a special needs child as each can be quite unique. :hug:

 

[Loveneverfails]

Maybe you will share this with her?

I will try. It's going to take some major courage for me to do so but I will try. Thanks again for your help and compassion.