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Shame

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If I just lie still and meditate and focus on that area, (it is not my heart), it is my center and core and worthy. Maybe it is a chakra.
Yes, that is your Manipura, or your solar plexus chakra, located between the navel and the base of the sternum. It is the chakra that deals with self-esteem, self-worth and self-definition.
this is why relationships never feel enough and as though I am always wanting something I can't have
Oh my goodness... That's me to a T. Relationships never, ever feel complete, whole or enough to me. I always feel like there is something huge missing, and can never put my finger on what it is or why. That in turn always causes me to feel that the thing that's missing is ME - there's something inherently wrong with me, I am the one that's never enough, I am the one that's lacking, and my brain always rationalises it with thinking that if I was enough and if I wasn't lacking, I would be loved and cared for the way I want. I always feel like I have to earn love. I always feel that if I just do this and this and that and if I gain the approval of my partner/friend/whatever, then I will be 'rewarded' with the love that I crave. But the love I receive is never enough - I always feel unappreciated, even when I have no actual evidence of that.

I think it's because I always expect to be unappreciated and I always expect to be abandoned, ignored, chastised, scrutinised. I feel ashamed just for existing. I constantly feel like I need to apologise for my presence and my existence. I feel self-hatred that resonates to the very depth of my bones, right to the marrow, as though every inch of me is unloveable, unlikeable, unwanted. I have no control over it, either - I can try my absolute hardest to love myself and may succeed to a degree in short bursts, but then will eventually, inevitably, collapse back into a shame-filled existence where I want to claw out of my own skin because I feel so repulsive and so undeserving of love, affection and self-esteem. Shame and guilt feel like they're my identity. I don't know how to overcome it. I can't work out healthy shame from toxic shame because it all feels exactly the same to me. Healthy shame turns or feeds into toxic shame.
Toxic shame destroys personal boundaries. Without personal boundaries, interpersonal and life difficulties can't be managed or regulated, so escape is the only means of survival.
And... that explains why I feel immense panic and anxiety in situations that require me to set boundaries or that are difficult. All I want to do in the face of such situations is to just escape and flee as fast and as far as I can. I feel horrendously unsafe and on red alert in situations where I don't know how to handle or don't know how to stand up for myself (which is most situations).
the shame-based person can often analyse others and the world with uncanny accuracy, compassion and fairness, but tumbles into "delusional" assessments of self which are often fiercely defended when challenged, even where the person is otherwise not aggressive or defensive
Yep. Yep. Just... yep. This is me, too.

Thank you for posting that, maddog. That was confronting to read but very worthwhile. It's left me with a lot of things to think about, which is good.
 
It really is an excellent book, I am gaining more respect for it the further I read. It is a very confronting and overwhelming read though, and I need to pace myself and take lots of breaks.

I've continued to read and take notes today, which I'll post later when I've tidied them up a bit. I've been reading through his discussion of the dynamics of the dysfunctional family system, multi-generational shaming, the "roles" that abused children are forced into and the dynamics of abandonment and abuse in childhood. For me, it's up there with Herman's "Trauma and Recovery" as a book that makes me want to go "me too" with every sentence. It makes it hard, actually, to take notes on the most relevant bits, as I feel as though I'm just rewriting the entire book.

Abstract, you summed it up perfectly when you mentioned feeling enlightened and deeply ashamed. That's exactly how this journey ebbs and flows for me as I read too, and is part of why I have to be careful not to overdo it. As I said to my therapist on Saturday, just talking about talking about shame deeply distresses me, and the same applies to reading about it. But then, as Bradshaw himself says in the book, "you can't heal what you can't feel".

Maddog
 
MD-thank you so much for sharing. I read something of Bradshaw, I think it was Bradshaw on the Family if I recall. Back in the 80's, I learned I was co-dependent, and ACOA, and my therapist suggested ptsd but never officially diagnosed. I did ACOA and co-dependency work and got much better, fully functional. I read so much and did so much work. I threw out everything I thought I knew and started from scratch. I was able to have a very good life for many years, about 15 years.

However, during those years things were fairly low stress. I controlled my environment to prevent negative stressors. Yes there was financial stress and time management kinds of stress. Nothing traumatic. After a seperation from husband, a family member murdered, then much much more. It became clear eventually that it was trauma and ptsd.

I wonder how many people were labeled co-dependent and learned to manage, later to be diagnosed with PTSD? Co-dependency work is a good foundation, but like a band aid on a broken leg in hindsight.

Again, thank you. I am going to buy this book soon.
 
MD- thank you so much for this information. I read the notes you made and thought 'this is me, this explains how and why I feel as I do'. The part about relationships, wanting 'more', wanting a parental figure to address needs that were neglected in childhood, sadly, is me to a 'Tee'.

I've learnt so much from this thread. Ironically I was talking about this today with a therapist.
 
I feel a little uncertain about posting more of my notes, but as nobody has suggested I shouldn't, and as I figure they've helped me a lot and so might do likewise for someone else, even just a little bit, I guess I will. I'm sorry they're very long, and also that some of them are repeated from above. I went back and added more to earlier sections as I read, and so now the early sections have been expanded, so I'm sorry for the repetition.

Also, of course, this is just my interpretation of the book, and the added notes are just my own opinions. Take or leave them all as you see fit.

I have now finished part I of the book and made a tentative start on Part II, the "what to do about it" section. I confess that initially I was almost frantically reactive to his suggestions - they seemed so intense and overwhelming and more distressing than I could even think about, let alone put into practice. But for now, these notes relate to Part I and are about the nature and origins of toxic shame itself. I've left in some of the personal additions as well, because personalising what I read, though definitely the hardest part, is what makes the words real.

And thanks all for the positive feedback to date. It gave me courage to go on... even to go on reading, which at times I almost couldn't.


Bradshaw speaks very candidly about his own life and battle with toxic shame. His direct experience of it, and the pain and emotion of it, are very evident in his book. At times you sense that some of the battle is ongoing, such as in his discussion of his client Max. Max is the ongoing case study throughout the book.

Shame is defined as spiritual bankcruptcy.

He normalises healthy shame as a necessary regulatory emotion that is required to remind us that we are human, have boundaries of behaviour and personal significance/importance and are intrinsically small in a big world. Shame teaches us modesty, self-respect, caution, pragmatism and empathy.

People often think that identity is an individual and internalised state. But Bradshaw argues that identity is formed through interpersonal connections and through relationships, which Erikson also reflected in his theory of psychosocial development. Bradshaw quotes an old proverb that says that "One man is no man."

Toxic shame is an internalised emotion, and hence it becomes an identity. It is deeper than an emotional state and exists and imfluences the sufferer regardless of changing emotional states. It is also the "master emotion", as it binds all other emotions. Maddog adds that this is part of what locks a shame-based person to their shame. There is perceived to be something inherently life-threatening about attempting to destroy part of one's core identity, regardless of how that part feels.

Toxic shame makes you strive to be more than human or less than human. The acceptance of being human is intolerable and either alternate extreme will do in preference. Those who strive to be more than human become perfectionistic and develop unrelenting standards of success and achievement. But he calls this the "hole in your soul" phenomena, because regardless of the type or extent of success, nothing ever fills the void of shame and inadequacy. Perfectionism thus becomes limitless and unattainable.

By contrast, those who resort to being less than human behave in ways that are commonly recognized as "shameless" and often indulge in criminality, addictions and sub-standards of living and behaviour. The shame thus becomes self-reinforcing and self-perpetuating.

These polar extremes of self represent the all-or-nothing phenomenon which typically characterises a shame-based person's interactions with the world. Maddog suggests that it's possible to demonstrate both in different areas of life - I believe my parents did this, striving for overt achievement and public status that suggested wealth and self-indulgence, while we all lived in a converted shed and had few, if any, creature comforts.

Toxic shame forms during the pre-verbal periods when the only way one learns about the world is through emotional interactions with the caregiver. So we are most susceptible to neglect, abandonment and lovelessness during this period, which may prevail even where basic caregiving behaviours are present. Neglect, rejection or harsh or inconsistent interactions teach the child that they are unimportant, problematic or despicable and as the child has no cognitive capacity to interpret or challenge the reasons for this, they accept that the behaviour reflects their fundamental defectiveness. Young children think in feelings (felt thought) and are egocentric, so negative/rejecting emotional experiences and the belief that everything that happens is "because of me" combine to create internalised (toxic) shame. Maddog notes that to believe or behave any differently is also dangerous and maladaptive, as it is interpreted as defiance or nonconformity which warrants punishment and further rejection. There is inherent safety and security in being and behaving as you are treated.

Bradshaw describes a number of personal and social problems as being rooted in toxic shame, including borderline and narcissistic personality disorders, eating disorders and addictions.

Note that in some approaches, the treatment of toxic shame is essentially similar to recognized treatments of Borderline Personality Disorder, as both involve emotional regulation, establishing and maintaining a sense of self and managing externalised feelings of shame and unworth.

He talks about repetition compulsion in the sense of becoming one's own abuser, either directly through self harm or deprivation abuse, or internally through self hate and criticism. Maddog adds that self harm, while also a form of self soothing and emotional release, may also replicate physical abuse inflicted as punishment, therefore representing self punishment and shame. Repetition compulsion binds shame-based people to dysfunctional relationships and bad lifestyle choices and includes many forms of reenactment of the causes of toxic shame, including abuse, inappropriate sexual behaviour, addictions and cognitive distortions.

Addictions of any kind are an attempt at a relationship with the source of the addiction. You externalise your unmet need for worth and comfort onto the source of the addiction. Needs that cannot be met internally are met externally, such as the needs for validation, control, self soothing, belonging and acceptance. Maddog adds that it is when I am feeling most alone and abandoned that I most long for my former work and routines, and engage in addictive and control behaviours around exercise, eating and sleeping. But addictions fuel the very shame they may initially suppress and so the relationship with the addiction is circular and reinforcing of the shame. Addictions are most often based on the need for the addictive relationship rather than on the source of the addiction itself, and the trait of "addictiveness" is common among shame-based people who may switch from one addiction to another or have multiple addictions at the same time. Toxic shame is the ultimate addiction for shame-based people. Maddog suggests that it is the only relationship that makes sense and feels "right" in my life.

Eating disorders reflect the shame and rejection of one's most basic existence and needs, including the body itself and the need for nutrition. A complete lack of worth and identity is characterised by this most fundamental rejection of life.

As a child, toxic shame leads the child to identify with the power of the abuser and the belief that the child is fundamentally flawed. Identifying with the abuser aligns the child with the source of control and power and thus makes the child feel less exposed, while also allowing the child to take some internal control of their defectiveness. Maddog adds that there are strong parallels with Judith Hermann's views on how the abused child takes on the abusers' view of him/her as flawed and defective.

Internalised shame transfers (projects) onto the outside world and internalised feelings of shame are projected onto others. If I think I am bad, then everyone does. Shaming messages are absorbed as valid, and are then replicated internally even when outside shaming messages have ceased. The shame-based person becomes their own abuser and internalised critic. Shaming messages are also projected onto the world and onto others and re-absorbed as though they were real. This entire cycle can exist without any verifiable evidence of the shaming messages. In this way, toxic shame is "functionally autonomous".

Interestingly, Bradshaw argues that those who experience toxic shame experience a form of grandeositty. In keeping with being more than human or less than human, the person feels beyond reproach or beyond help respectively. Counterintuitively, the latter is also a form of grandeosity as it implies the person believes they are the best at being the worst and are hence superior in their inferiority. Interesting perspective. Maddog adds that this resonates strangely when I think about it. Feeling beyond help and too broken is a form of protective rejection of the world. I am different to everyone. Nobody can understand me and my problems are too complex for normal people and the normal world. It can feel almost insulting when others try to understand or imply I can be helped. Perhaps holding onto my toxic shame is also a means of preserving the last remaining link with my family. To reject what they turned me into is to ultimately reject them as the source of my existence. Somehow, this is a devastating thought based on flawed and self-destructive, but very hard-wired, reasoning.

Shame-based people marry shame-based people because their mutual failures to meet their own and the other person's needs are dysfunctionally compatible, including an unspoken agreement never to disagree about the other's shame. Each parent looks to the other one to parent and meet their needs. Obviously such a relationship will be dysfunctional, but possibly enduring. Just as in childhood, the dysfunctional relationship is better than none at all.

Shame-based parents are endlessly needy and experience their own needs like a toothache that doesn't allow them to focus on anything else, including the child's needs. The child's needs are in conflict with the parent's needs, as the parent's needs are usually the same needs which were never met when they were children themselves. A parent cannot meet a child's needs if he/she has the same needs. The parents' need for a constant source of attention and affection will be met by the child, given that a young child is inherently available to the parent and without the ability to resist, and so the order of nature is reversed. Maddog adds that as a child's personality forms, a child who is naturally resilient, independent, self-sufficient and confident will be undesirable to the parent as he/she will be less likely to meet the narcissistic needs of the parent. This may have applied in my case and been part of why I was so repugnant to my parents. Maddog also adds that bizarrely, my father would seek my advice and reassurance when he was distressed, eg, he would phone me for support and advice if my mother was sick, and so he continued to look to me to meet his needs to some degree, even once I became an adult.

Shame-based people become adult children. They remain always needy, as their needs are a child's needs which cannot be met in adulthood. As adults they turn lovers into parents and friends into caregivers. They are insatiable. Maddog adds that this is why relationships never feel enough and as though I am always wanting something I can't have. Feeling close to someone validating and supportive feels like eating something small when you are starving to death - the small amount of food awakens the suppressed need for food and the sense of starving hunger becomes more unbearable than it was when there was no food at all. The food analogy feels right, as the unmet needs feel like a form of starvation that can feel physically painful, emotionally all-consuming and potentially life-threatening. Relationships can feel almost cruel and predatory at times, pursuing me with constant reminders of what I can't ever have and eroding my protective defences, thereby exposing my feelings of vulnerability and need. Awareness of the irrationality and untennable nature of this starvation deepens the sense of shame as I know it is wrong and inappropriate, but can't help feeling that way.
 
Toxic shame destroys personal boundaries, as these can only be formed when healthy autonomy and self awareness are modelled and instilled. Without personal boundaries, interpersonal and life difficulties can't be managed or regulated, so escape is the only means of survival. Maddog adds that withdrawal and isolation are damagingly rewarding and reinforcing, as they feel like the only boundary and protection I can find from interpersonal or life difficulties. This explains, in part, why I feel just as compelled to withdraw and isolate from positive relationships as I do from negative ones, as both threaten my personal boundaries/defences in different ways. The more I need help or contact, the less likely I am to ask for it…

Markers of toxic shame in interpersonal settings include breaking eye contact, blushing, extreme self consciousness, occasional directly challenging behaviour and dialogue about achievements, delusional assessments of self. Bradshaw writes about how the shame-based person can often analyse others and the world with uncanny accuracy, compassion and fairness, but tumbles into "delusional" assessments of self which are often fiercely defended when challenged, even where the person is otherwise not aggressive or defensive. Maddog notes this with irony - T has often referred to my assessments of myself as "delusional". To challenge my toxic shame feels like a challenge to the only fragile emotional and psychological teritory that is mine. Tragically, in this way, his challenge to my self-hate can feel threatening and cruel and like a personal attack. The harder he pushes me about it, the tighter I hold onto my beliefs and the more afraid I am of losing them.


Bradshaw describes the family system as being greater than the sum of its parts. The system is defined by the relationship between its parts, not by the sum total of the parts. Much like a mobile, when one part moves, the other parts move in response.

Dysfunctional families have no secrets - only denial. "You can't heal what you can't feel".

The key factor in the functionality of the family is the marriage. If the marriage is healthy, the family will be healthy. Maddog adds that I'm not sure it's quite that simple overall, but probably true from the perspective of shame factors.

Bradshaw describes the process of "dynamic homeostasis", whereby when the family unit is out of balance, children will adopt rigid defined roles in an attempt to balance the unit again. In keeping with the shame-based parents having unmet needs, the children often adopt these roles in an attempt to meet those needs for the parents. Children may become pseudo spouses or "little parents", whereby they are required to take care of siblings, meet the parents' emotional/sexual needs etc. All of these roles are designed to mask toxic shame and to keep the family unit in balance. Maddog adds that I was partly a "little mother" to my siblings, as our lack of mothering unbalanced the family unit.

Another commonly defined child role is that of "lost child". The lost child will attempt to balance the unit/compensate for his/her internalised shame by being invisible, perfect, compliant, no trouble, overly helpful etc. Maddog adds that as a "lost child", I tried to be nobody and everybody all at once.

One member of the family, usually the most sensitive, often becomes the scapegoat. This allows the other members to "dump" their own shame externally onto the scapegoat and to lessen their own pain. All of the hurt and hate are redirected onto the scapegoat who may be left carrying generations of displaced shame. The scapegoat will often be overachieving and perfectionistic and will have multiple, sometimes changing, functional and responsible roles within the family. The scapegoat can be sacrificed at any time and will be owned or disowned by the family according to the functional impact of doing so. Maddog adds that this applies in my family. I was blamed for everyone's mistakes and for events which occurred when I was not even present. I was nominated to take the fall whenever needed, both publically and in private. My success was family success, but my failures were due to my flaws. Even now, my father invents details of my professional success to bolster his own image, yet denounces my mental state and "trouble-maker" nature whenever there is potential for my actions to reflect negatively on him. Even my siblings blame me for everything wrong within our family. My sister refers to the day I was born as "the end of the world". My brother blames me for why he struggles with his own children. It was always my fault for "making him mad". If I would only be better at doing the right thing, smarter, quicker, quieter, more assertive, more resilient, less defiant, more successful, less perfect, more normal, less blind, more competent, more independent, less independent, more intelligent, less stupid, stronger, more obedient, more positive, less unrealistic… then everything would be perfect.

Bradshaw notes that there are an infinite number of designated child roles within the family. Some are functional and practical, some are nurturing and preserving, some are public and status/reputation-enhancing, some are sacrificial and self-defeating. Maddog adds that I was the tragic hero, public achiever, punching bag, scapegoat/sacrificial lamb, conquest, strategist/problem solver, pseudo parent (including to my father), peacemaker, spokesman and lost child. There is contradiction in some of these roles, which is typical apparently.

These rigid roles ensure that the family unit remains frozen in place. The roles remain fixed and unchanging even as the children become adults. A challenge to any individual's role(s) is a challenge to the entire family unit. Maddog adds that this is partly why my detaching from my parents caused such disruption to the entire family system. With me went my roles and their contribution to "balancing" the family.

Bradshaw notes that youngest children often act out the dynamic of their parents' marriage. Maddog notes that he didn't elaborate on this point and I am a little unclear on what he meant…

Shame-based families are governed by survival rules. Important family rules are about interpersonal communication, feelings and parenting. The rules are designed to shame all of the members and to preserve the various roles. Power is used to shame. "Dad can yell at anyone. Mum can yell at anyone except Dad. The eldest can yell at anyone except Mum and Dad. The youngest tortures the cat…"

Unspoken rules, which are also Defences used to cover up shame, are about control, blame, perfectionism, denial of the five basic freedoms (the freedoms to perceive, think, feel, desire and imagine), the "no listen" rule, the "make nno mistakes" rule, unreliability, and the "don't trust" rule.


The process by which toxic shame becomes an identity is known as the absolutising or internalisation of shame.
It involves the three phases of identifying with shame-based models, the trauma of abandonment, and the interconnection and magnification of memories and scenes of shame.

First, abandonment can occur when the caregiver is either present or absent. Abandonment includes emotional abandonment, all forms of abuse and narcissistic deprivation.

Bradshaw states that a healthy parent meets the child's needs for "narcissistic supplies" by providing a constant and reliable source of validation, attention and mirrorring, which allows the child to form an identity, learn to experience and tolerate the full range of emotions and their consequences, assert and experience needs and autonomy etc. Where this narcissistic supply is denied to the child, the child has no sense of authentic self, cannot identify, trust or rely on their own emotions and projects/displays only those parts of the self that are sought and acknowledged by the parent. The self becomes a concocted "act" of acceptable qualities and behaviours. The child becomes a "human doing" instead of a human being.

But the narcissistically deprived child rarely feels anger towards the parents, and often reflects on their childhood without empathy for their child self, as the healthy parts of self that relate to self respect and met needs, have not been developed and cannot be accessed. Maddog relates to this. I rarely feel the anger I ought to towards my parents, as hard as I try. I lapse quickly into vicious condemnation of my child self. It is difficult for me to relate my undefined feeling of loss and deprivation with any sense of what my unmet needs actually were/are.

The "fantasy bond" exists where the child perceives that a love relationship exists with the parent as long as the desired qualities are displayed. The more this pattern continues, the more the child will achieve and be successful/admired, but the more inauthentic and empty he/she will feel. Many highly achieving people are deeply depressed for this reason. Maddog adds that this applied in my case. The only qualities/behaviours that were ever, even slightly, acceptable were to achieve highly at things valued by my parents (such as academically), to be and appear "normal" and not blind, to take care of the needs of my siblings, to silently withstand abuse, to display no emotions, and to minimise and ignore my own needs and to never seek to have them met. These behaviours were desirable by my parents, as they lessened the burden of my existence and the shame I was to the family, brought accollades to the family and ensured the secrecy of its dysfunctionality. Each of these patterns of behaviour became ingrained and persisted into adulthood, though none ever gave me any sense of wholeness or pleasure. I also partly acted out fantasy bonds regarding work and my colleagues, believing that if I worked very hard, people would respect and accept me.

The 2nd aspect of abandonment is abuse. Abuse is about the parent and not the child, and it equals abandonment because nobody is there for the child. Egocentrism causes the child to blame him/herself and to internalise shame as a result.

Bradshaw states that sexual abuse is the most shaming form of abuse. Maddog suggests that it isn't quite that straightforward and that the most damaging abuse can only be measured by its impacts and not by its type or form. The most damaging abuse is never just one type of abuse, because the abuse must destroy the child in every way from the inside out in order to be most damaging.

Maddog suggests therefore that the most damaging form of abuse is whatever most directly attacks the child's self concept. It will be that which most deeply erodes the child's sense of self worth, and his/her sense of right/ability to exist. It will take away the child's belief that he/she has any degree of functional and psychological/emotional control over the world. The most damaging form of abuse is that which makes the child feel most inhuman, most powerless and most defined by his/her internal flaws and defects. The child's sense of self becomes distorted into a belief that he/she is the sum of all of his/her external features and internal qualities, and when those features and qualities are all negative and defective, the sum total is of a flawed and defective entity. The most damaging abuse will turn basic elements of the child's existence and reality into tools of torture, methods of manipulation and bargaining items that can be given and taken away. The most damaging abuse is any abuse that itemises the child's subjective reality and turns it into the objective possessions of someone else. This allows the abuser to truly "own" the victim, to possess his/her identity and to cast ultimate judgment on his/her worth and right to exist. The victim comes to believe that his/her very existence can be given or taken away in ways that do not involve actual life or death. The only part of existence that is not torturous is the prospect of death, and so death becomes the unattainable and undeserved fantasy. Even death becomes a tool of taunting manipulation by the clever abuser - the reprieve that is repeatedly offered and then snatched away again as punishment for wishing for it. It is the chronic, whole-of-life equivalent of being repeatedly choked into unconsciousness and then resuscitated, wounded and repaired, dropped and picked up again. The restorative act is more intolerable than the harm that preceded it. The victim comes to hate and fear his/her existence more than the abuser ever could, because existence is viewed as the mechanism of suffering. The victim feels like a timebomb or the embodiment of a deadly toxin. In that way, it is the self that is perceived as the cause of the suffering.

The most damaging abuse turns the victim into the living dead and the dead living.



Physical abuse occurs where parents seek to have their emotional needs for nurturance and support met by the child. When this does not/cannot occur, the parent interprets this as rejection by the child and seeks to punish the child. Physical abuse is often impulsive and random and unpredictable and often leads to a state of learned helplessness in the child.

The third type of abuse is emotional abuse. Bradshaw describes emotions as E-Motions - energy in motion. Emotions give us the energy to seek to have our needs met. Anger gives us strength to act, sadness drives us to dispel the pain of loss and to therefore heal. Emotional abuse freezes the child's emotions and the energy they generate, and therefore freezes a child's personality development at the stage at which it most predominently occurs. Parents will suppress and punish their child's emotions, because emotion in the child triggers emotion in the parent, and shame-based parents have no ability to tolerate emotion in themselves.

Emotions are the language and currency of early life. The child learns about the world based on what he/she learns from emotional interaction. The child whose basic emotional needs are not met therefore comes to believe that none of their needs can ever be met. Thanks to egocentrism, the child learns they have no right to have any form of needs. The greater the failure to meet the child's emotional needs, the stronger the child will believe that he/she has no right to need anything. The interpersonal bridge is broken and having needs becomes a source of shame itself. Maddog adds that as the child grows and develops insight into the fact that she has unmet needs of a very basic nature, the more the shame deepens. The shame is not only for having needs, but for knowing that needs were not met and that there are failings and defects in the character as a result. As a blind child, I had even greater needs for parental guidance and support than most children and less alternate means through which to have those needs met. I had even more needs that were never met and less ability to seek to have those needs met through other means, as I could not interact with and learn from the wider world to the extent that other children could. I was even more reliant on my parents and more vulnerable to their shaming messages.


The third phase of the absolutising of toxic shame is when images and memories, including audible and visual memories, of shaming experiences, become internal triggers of further shame. The internalised shame spiral occurs when shame is triggered and is then both projected outwardly and re-experienced internally. Maddog ads that this is the element of toxic shame most apparent in typical patterns of post traumatic symptoms of re-experiencing and avoidance.



Bradshaw discusses how the education system in the Western world is set up to shame children, particularly those who are under-achieving and/or already shame-based. The education system ranks and rates children in comparison to one another, values only certain types of achievement while devaluing others, rewards and encourages perfectionistic and overachieving behaviour and values quantity over quality in terms of the learning process, eg, a child who takes 3 months to learn algebra will do well, but a child who learns just as well but takes 6 months to do so will fail algebra. He suggests that intelligence should not be measured by what we know or what we can do, but rather by what we do when we don't know what to do… Maddog interprets this as meaning that intelligence is a measure of our problem solving and adaptive abilities, psychological flexibility, creativity and curiosity about the world.



The book discusses the numerous primary and secondary ego defences designed to cover up toxic shame. These include dissociation, denial, depersonalisation, displacement, feeling or somatoform conversion, rejection of the self (including self mutilation and suicide), inhibition and projection.

Feeling conversion occurs where the child learns to replace unacceptable emotions with more acceptable ones. Maddog adds that I often exchange anger for grief/sadness, while sometimes also exchanging grief for self-criticism, guilt for grief etc.

The shame-based person may also adopt behavioural styles which directly contradict the hidden impulses for which they feel shame. Someone with the impulse to be cruel may behave with exaggerated kindness. Maddog adds that I believe I do this - sometimes behaving with compassion towards those for whom I feel resentment, minimising my needs when I am most acutely aware of them, displaying fierce independence in relation to those upon whom I feel most dependent.
 
As I said to my therapist on Saturday, just talking about talking about shame deeply distresses me, and the same applies to reading about it.
Md, Yes! I almost deleted what I wrote as was ashamed of being ashamed! This whole conversation has been helpful as I am realising this goes even deeper than I thought and that says a lot as knew it was pervasive. It is as if almost everything in my life comes with an after shock of shame. Like a kick in the solar plexus.

personalising what I read, though definitely the hardest part, is what makes the words real.
Yes. Totally different story than dealing with the purely intellectual.

boundaries
This is an interesting one that I had not thought of. I am still attempting to slot it into the rest of my thoughts on the subject. If anyone wants to say more than I am open to hearing.

It is also the "master emotion", as it binds all other emotions.
This makes total sense and explains so much! It fits totally with my experience of it.

"shameless
Now this is interesting too. I had thought about this and had come to the conclusion that it was possible that we either absorb all blame and therefore feel shame, or deflect all blame onto others and therefore take no responsibility for anything and don't feel shame. So this is a new way of viewing it for me. That shamelessness can be a reaction to shame.

it's possible to demonstrate both in different areas of life
I had not thought of this either but it is true.

all-or-nothing phenomenon
I am certainly all or nothing. In almost every aspect of my life.


There is inherent safety and security in being and behaving as you are treated.
And it is totally normal. There is an especially inherent terror in breaking away from it too if there were severe consequences for doing so in the past. Almost like an emotional flashback.


oxic shame leads the child to identify with the power of the abuser and the belief that the child is fundamentally flawed.
Yes.

To reject what they turned me into is to ultimately reject them as the source of my existence.
I am sorry MD. I think this is very understandable.

The parents' need for a constant source of attention and affection will be met by the child
This made me think of object relation theory and especially of mothers or parents using the child as a transitional object. This theory felt very accurate to me when I did deeper reading about eating disorders a way back. The book, "Lost for Words:
The Psychoanalysis of Anorexia and Bulimia by Em Farrell" has some interesting thoughts on this when it gets to object relation theory. http://human-nature.com/farrell/chap3.html


The food analogy feels right, as the unmet needs feel like a form of starvation that can feel physically painful, emotionally all-consuming and potentially life-threatening.
I understand exactly what you are saying. I have rejected that I feel this way about relationships and had convinced myself I am fine alone... but there is this scary undercurrent that does not feel controllable. This is something I really don't want to look at or acknowledge.
 
shaming messages are also projected onto the world and onto others and re-absorbed as though they were real. This entire cycle can exist without any verifiable evidence of the shaming messages. In this way, toxic shame is "functionally autonomous".
... and I absolutely hate that this happens for me.
 
This book has been so very thought provoking. Thank you for sharing MD.
This is so much to absorb, Abstract breaking down the quotes triggers so many thoughts in me. I am so glad you shared Abstract and did not delete. I suspect that verbalizing and owning has to be the beginning of healing.

Shame being the master emotion makes so much sense. I had never thought of it that way. I think that the realization of that will be a key concept in understanding my emotions thoughts and behaviors.

"the parents need for constant attention and affection will be met by the child". -I was just reading an article last night that summarized Bowen Family Therapy and the 8 key concepts. (my brain is smoking a bit in trying to state the connection correctly) The article described 8 concepts that make up the theory. It basically described how anxieties and insecurities of each partner play out and how those with a poorly differentiated self are most vulnerable to problems being put on their children.

This helped me to understand how even though I was a very good and attentive mother and seemed to do all the right things, being married to someone who is emotionally vacant causes one person to absorb all the family anxiety (me-bit co-dependent), leading to much conflict in spite of seemingly healthy upbringing. Now I am seeing how the "shame" is multigenerationally transmitted since neither of us had really dealt with the toxic shame from childhood. I see that my needs could not be met by my unavailable husband and that I immersed myself in my childrens lives and even unconsciously depended on them to meet my needs for happiness in various ways that seem obscure. I believe this to be why approaching the empty nest caused extreme anxiety and the empty nest caused depression. This may be partly responsible for triggering symptoms of ptsd that were dorment in my life-just a thought.

Boundaries-I too have to think about this some more......It is something I struggle horribly with right now.


Shameless-I somehow equate shameless with blaming others. While it comes out in such things as criminal behavior, I think more of addictions, anger at others, escaping in any form that we don't value as a society and so forth. It makes sense that "shameless" also is rooted in toxic shame. As so many behaviors such as addiction have the purpose of avoiding oneself. Just a thought, don't know if accurate, but it seems that blaming others is a way of preventing blaming self and sinking into depression. I think I am saying the same as Abstract said-avoiding shame appears as shameless, while it appears the person is not taking responsibility, it would seem to be a protective factor. I tend to blame myself for too much, which likely leads to SI.
 
I seem to be having some luck lately by looking on my feelings of shame and self hatred as Self Indulgence and in that way I almost "shame" myself into looking forward if that makes any sense.
 
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