How Do You Make Friends?

[bell]

"And the day came when the risk to remain tight in a bud was more painful than the risk it took to blossom."

There's a reason why this quote is popular. (It's actually not by Anais Nin, who it is usually attributed to, but I can't find the post with the actual author right now.)

Okay, then honestly, what does that mean if they say "no?" Does it mean they don't like you? No. They could already have plans. They could be going through their own traumas and not have the energy. You don't know why they are saying no, and in all likelihood, their "no" has absolutely nothing to do with you.

To me, seeing "no" as an outright rejection of you means being self-centric in your analysis of the situation. You have zero idea of why they're saying no. So, if it's most likely nothing personal, what do you (literally) have to lose?

 

[Pencil]

Seems to me I'm qualified :)- I find it easy to talk to strangers and I make friends easily - and are two different things entirely.

This is a difficult medium - I don't want to offend you when I give you pointers - based on your responses to me / others, which is important as the first thing you need to know is how others perceive you - because their responses to you are based on that. But more about that later.

Homework: What do want in a friend? This is important - there is the expression: I you want to have a friend you must be a friend. So you will gain friendships based on what you offer. In other words, if you see the ideal friend as a BFF with whom to spend time together, the wild chick is not going to be a good candidate.

While you think of what it is that you want in a friend, here are practical things:

The NUMBER ONE FEAR of all humans is rejection. It is not only yours - we all need acceptance and to be liked. So, the two girls that you like - remember that they are not 100% secure in themselves and in the world - they also need to feel that they are liked and accepted - by YOU. Strange as that may seem to you. How do we convey that? Obviously by paying attention, being ACCESSIBLE / OPEN (which is NOT your strong point). There are several things you can do: 1) Pay a sincere compliment. 2) Make them laugh. I know this sounds cheesy, but: a shared sense of humor is something that creates immediate rapport. I have a friend whose favourite line is: f*ck them if they don't have a sense of humor - i.e. if they don't have HER sense of humour. If you don't find someone funny, you'll never really have a deep bond.

Norman Vincent Peale's How to win friends and influence people is a classic because it gives excellent advice (the style is so outdated that it comes across as ridiculous, but ignore that), such as - be genuinely interested in the other person, really listen, etc. Get the book! Every library has a copy.

 

[Pencil]

Sorry Ayesha, but you do come across as haughty. This is NOT an attack. I am not saying you are haughty, I am saying that is how you come across. This is simply a defense - I get that. Perhaps haughty is too strong for you - but you are aloof, and can be quite abrupt. Perhaps we should start a poll :D

 

[StarChild]

Ayesha, you do come across as haughty

Eh? :wideeyed: Towards who? Towards the whole forum? Or just some people? Or is this statement of yours simply based on your own point of view? I'd say, it's the last one that matches. And that's the crux with such things; I mean, that's what I try to point out to you Pencil; Please be mindful of how you state such things, because what someone states is just based on their own personal experience / point of view, and not on that of (all) others...

I guess, that's the reason why statements such as "IMO" or "from my experience / point of view" are more clear and appreciated; Not because they're more polite, but because they're in line with what just that particular person (in this case it's you) that gives that statement thinks or feels. (Sorry for the long, complicated explication; It's a bit difficult for me to express it all correct. For English isn't my first language:whistling:)

but the first definition of haughty is "arrogantly superior and disdainful.

That's also the first definition in my language... Well, Ayesha, from my experience with you, and from what I read of you, you're simply not. I do appreciate you the same, as a member of this forum and as a moderator. I think I'm able to distinguish these two facts. :tup:

I am aware that maybe people are unsure of how to treat me both here and in real life.

By the way, it is not unusual to have more than one role beside the personal one (e.g. business, school, clubs e.t.c). But within all these different roles, lies your true personality. And I'd say, first you have to find out, how much of yourself you want to expose / show. Also, that can vary from environment to environment.

As to your question, of "How to make friends", it also depends on what you're expecting; Should it be just for some chat? Or are you looking for a deeper knowledge of the other person? I ask these questions, because in my language "friendship" exactly means this: Deep friendship. (I don't mean an erotic one) But to appreciate and know the other person very well and in return be known and truly appreciated even with the dark sides (which we all have)...

 

[Pencil]

English isn't my first langauage

English is my third language. There's nothing to fight about - I'm trying to stress the point that Ayesha does not come across as needy or pathetic or weak. As I said in an earlier post, she can make this work in her favour.. As I said, it is a defense mechanism, and a very effective one. Some people have less effective defenses, such as becoming clowns, or spending too much money on their friends, or being aggressive. Royalty is haughty. Not a bad thing - unless you are haughty at heart.

Better?

 

[digger]

Hmm...from someone whose first language is English, can I say that calling someone haughty or saying that that is how they come across, is not really complimentary in any context. :confused:

 

[digger]

I'm pretty useless with the whole making friends thing, but with the two girls in your class, I would probably go with something along the lines of 'I'm going for a coffee, do you fancy coming?' or 'I'm going to get a coffee now if you fancy it?'. try not to take 'no' as a reflection on you if that's their answer, it could be for any number of reasons, just come back with 'Some other time then maybe' so you're leaving it open.

 

[kahlan]

Ayesha, the more I read the more I see myself in this situation. I've been called everything up to a snob because on first meeting people I'm very reserved...I too fear looking stupid and ridiculous!

It comes down to how lonely you really feel...humans are social creatures(even the most hermit-like: my uncle hates people but really enjoys the occasional visit or quick.phone call turned hour long listening to him about his dog :p )

Anyway, I'm starting to ramble! If asking them for coffee is too soon for you, slip in some questions here and there to see what they like, it shows some interest in them and might open a door for common interests which I think is a good place to start with friends :)

 

[ninja]

I wouldn't know what to say. Not that I agree with them but I really wouldn't know how to comfort them or what advice to offer.

I think this is a very important insight. :) Ayesha, is it that you really wouldn't know what to say because you do not have a reaction, or is it that you do have things to say but you are blocking yourself from saying them out of fear that it might not be the 'right'/intelligent/helpful thing' to say? i.e. Not good enough?

The best tip I learned about reaching out when you don't know what to say, is to say what you would want them to say to you. In other instances, take the time that it takes to understand them/their situation (empathy) as fully as you can, imagine you were in their place, and then respond from that space. This does not always work, but I've found it to be a good place to start.

For myself I've realized that about more than half the time, I do actually have something to say but instead of allowing it to come out of my mouth, I end up internally chastising myself for not thoroughly thinking it through enough. If this is true for you, maybe you can start letting yourself think about what you would say... and decide later whether you want to put it in words or not.

Another thing is actually finding people you resonate with. Just because you have a hard time reaching out and connecting to x% of people doesn't mean you will have the same trouble with y%.

I understand how painful this can be to discuss. Huge kudos. :hug: (if you would like!)

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

You can't get rejected if you don't ask

Yes, I feel that way. So I don't ask.

Do you want to be alone or have the possibility of being rejected?

Right now I wouldn't ask. To nervous to do that.

Does it mean they don't like you?

Well, maybe not. I don't think they know me well enough to not like me or make the judgement of like or not like. Unless they sensed something about me, which seems unlikely. But then I noticed the look on one of the girls faces I didn't understand.

their "no" has absolutely nothing to do with you.

Yes, maybe.

To me, seeing "no" as an outright rejection of you means being self-centric in your analysis of the situation.

'Self-centric". Ouch. Someone who clearly believes that the world spins around him/her. Is that honestly what you believe of me? I don't agree Bell. To me, with my history I can see why I would jump to that. It is black and white thinking and something I should work on.

Sorry Ayesha, but you do come across as haughty.

Pencil, I don't agree with haughty in any sense of the word as:

can I say that calling someone haughty or saying that that is how they come across, is not really complimentary in any context.

Digger got it.

I have noticed, Pencil that you will say things when replying to my threads. Sometimes I see a pattern (which I am sorry to say I can't remember where), that you seem afraid to offend me or maybe worried about my reaction, you said both in this thread.

I don't want to offend you when I give you pointers

Oops, here I go.

You may not like me - which is fine.

Maybe becasue...

Perhaps haughty is too strong for you - but you are aloof, and can be quite abrupt.

Was I to abrupt with you somewhere? Abrupt now? Intimated by me? I am just trying to understand where this is coming from. I remember you once saying I seem sure of myself. I know I can be both aloof and abrupt. I will often keep my replies to threads short as then there is less room for argument and my point comes across as strong. And there have been times I say things as a member (not as staff) and I have been accused of not being sensitive enough and that I should be becasue I am staff. So yes, aloof...I have always been but not with my therapist and husband (both of whom I will talk their ear off).

As I said in an earlier post, she can make this work in her favour.

I am confused how?

Perhaps we should start a poll

Started laughing and then I wasn't really sure what you meant.

I do like your feedback Pencil. I may not agree with it all but that doesn't mean it's not worth thinking about. I deeply enjoy thinking. I enjoy the challenge and the puzzle. Keep challenging me. Same for you @bell.

 

[Pencil]

I am going to post this once, and then leave this argument and this thread.

I find it sad that many threads follow the same pattern: someone posts with an issue, members respond with concern / caring / interest, then there are opposing views - and then it turns into a brawl, usually as a result of people not reading closely. And the original poster has to wait for the fistfight to end.

@SweetLullaby and @digger: Ayesha stated a clear discrepancy between how she perceives herself, and how others perceive her, although she is unsure how she comes across, and I quote:

I am aware I put people off.

I am afraid I will say something stupid or come on to strong and scare them off.

I am afraid of appearing unintelligent or not sure of myself. I am afraid of being criticized. I am aware I say stupid things. Maybe the biggest one 'afraid of appearing unintelligent' makes people think I turn my nose up at them.

Do I appear to haughty? I have been told here I seem very self confident. I am not. Often my hands shake in check out lines. People notice. You can't possible tell me I appear self confident then. But if people often think that in real life, is that what puts them off?

Pride and embarrassment.

I do admit to being arrogant, that is something I have admitted to my therapist so I am aware of it. I hope I am not disdainful.

Maybe other people get the aloof vibe too?

I put effort and time and energy into trying to think what the reason might be that people don't respond to Ayesha with more warmth. Could anyone tell me why I would engage with her on this issue that is painful for her if I wrote her off as haughty?

What did I say?

I experience you as very aloof. You may not like me - which is fine. But how about simply actually engaging with the people on the forum that you do like.

With this I meant that she may have been aloof towards me because of something in ME, not HER.

I then thought about how I responded to her, and realised that I had in the past responded to her threads, (while she never responded to mine) but we never established a connection. And I thought it was a pity. I thought back to how I experienced her

Ayesha, you do come across as haughty - which is NOT criticism - it is something that can REALLY work in your favor, i.e. nobody to whom you reach out for friendship will suspect that you are needy. Plus, it will create the impression that the people you do reach out to meet your high standards.

I have friends who employ variations on this strategy.

If there is a choice between appearing 'stupid' or 'haughty', I think 'haughty' is GREAT as it contains the elements of pride and superiority, and not stupidity and inferiority as Ayesha fears. While being unsure of oneself in any arena, a facade that is protective is imperative before making oneself vulnerable - perhaps prematurely.

Ayesha, please forgive me for dissecting an issue that is sensitive for you.

I have a daughter and a crisis in my personal life. My attention will be there, and not on arguments here.

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

you want to have a friend you must be a friend.

I agree! :)

if you see the ideal friend as a BFF with whom to spend time together, the wild chick is not going to be a good candidate.

No wild chick wont do. I have already had friends like that before, they were not good for me or my mental health.

Well, Ayesha, from my experience with you, and from what I read of you, you're simply not.

I don't think so either. Thanks Sweetlullaby.

I do appreciate you the same, as a member of this forum and as a moderator. I think I'm able to distinguish these two facts.

I know you read my diary a lot, so I know you see me as human. :)

it is not unusual to have more than one role beside the personal one

Yes. Agreed. It's where you draw the line that can be difficult.

Or are you looking for a deeper knowledge of the other person?

Deeper.

because in my language "friendship" exactly means this: Deep friendship.

If I can ask, I know you may not feel comfortable from what I know of you, can I ask what the word is?

But to appreciate and know the other person very well and in return be known and truly appreciated even with the dark sides (that we all have)...

This sounds good but also it's a long term thing. You wouldn't be able to get that in 2 meetings.

'I'm going for a coffee, do you fancy coming?'

That is good.

'Some other time then maybe' so you're leaving it open.

This is good too. Open ended, the invite is open and clear.

It comes down to how lonely you really feel

Pretty lonely. It's been over 3 years since I had a friend.

the more I read the more I see myself in this situation.

I am sorry that you are in that situation too.

Ayesha, is it that you really wouldn't know what to say because you do not have a reaction, or is it that you do have things to say but you are blocking yourself from saying them out of fear that it might not be the 'right'/intelligent/helpful thing' to say? i.e. Not good enough?

I have a reaction normally but I do 'block myself'. I get a lot of anxiety at answering sometimes and then it feels like my brain isn't oiled enough and all the sudden I can't think. That's usually when I start pacing my living room. Just like I just did...

I did that with my school work today too. I was writing my English essay during my library volunteer work. First I forgot my computer and got onto myself about that and then when I started writing I kept thinking about how it's not good enough, I can do better, why can't I do better? I kept reminding myself that it's the rough draft of my rough draft. I still felt stupid and struggled with the anxiety.

but instead of allowing it to come out of my mouth, I end up internally chastising myself for not thoroughly thinking it through enough.

Yeah, I do that a lot. Blame myself for not anticipating what I should have been able too. (I know that's not rational, situations have to many outcomes. I couldn't possibly know all of them.)

decide later whether you want to put it in words or not.

I do that too. I'll think about it, maybe pace a bit and then come back to it. Can't really do that in real life though. Normally when people say things they want a reply then, not 5 minutes later when I figure out what I should be politely saying back. I did that today leaving the library, someone said they liked my rain coat and I started saying "Your welcome" then realized that is the wrong reply and it was just coming out from habit. I said thank you and left and then realized I could have stayed, maybe told her were I got it, or something besides stumbling over my words...

Both my husband and my husband have tried to teach me how to make friends. My therapist has tried to teach me what people's facial expressions mean. He has also tried to teach me basic gestures or expressions. Hard to explain. Touching someones shoulder or the difference between smiling 'with your eyes' (where crows feet comes from) and smiles with your jaw clinched.