The Thoughts I Hate To Admit

[Lucycat]

I was watching some news show this morning, and once again, some minor insignificant shit happened to a person and the reporter asked, "do you think you have PTSD?"

Hmmm. If the individual had a sore tummy would the reporter ask them if they think they have cancer? Why does the reporter see fit to suggest any illness/diagnosis?

Anyway as to the purpose of this thread

But I had accepted them for so long

I thought it was a normal part of life

I agree with both of these. When I told the psychiatrist of my first suicide attempt at age 8years, he gently told me that most children don't feel like that. I was astounded as I had never considered that I was not 'normal'.

Nowadays it is the out-of-nowhere sudden suicidal thoughts that I really hate. I find it very scary and hard to ignore. I also have noticed that high profile suicides in the press affect me. They bring about a shame attached to feeling so bad. I guess part of that is about how the press present these stories - judging them, their reasons and blaming them for the damage left behind.

I do find the black thoughts very hard to ignore, but I am also much more aware of the limitation of them. 'Hold tight and you'll get through this' I have to repeat to myself again and again.

At this time I am in a 'good place' but I do know that even when everything in the world is looking rosy, these thoughts can spring out and catch you unawares.

 

[Tinyflame]

@anthony, do you think it could be an emotional flashback, or physical?

Needless to say, I just want to thank you for sharing and 'normalizing' this stuff for me. It helps a lot when someone like you who knows what they are doing still can feel like this (though of course I wish you didn't, but I 'get it').

I find knowing it is lifelong makes it feel worse. If I thought it would end, I would cut myself slack more. I hope you will do that for yourself too.

Hang in there. :hug:

 

[Rumors]

I watched that movie too and it kind of left me messed up for a few days. I am envious of people who can watch movies, experience life and not experience the flooding of bad memories that may follow. I haven't ever known that.... Sorry that movie left you thinking about that. It made me think of my mom. :( hang tight!

 

[The Albatross]

I still have thoughts that appear out of the blue, but not the compulsion anymore to follow through anywhere near as often. Mostly it is a red flag for me to pause, take stock and a look around and see what I'm internalizing. Sometimes though it's for absolutely no real reason. Echoes, I call them echoes.

I actually though did attempt suicide that way once... swam out and kept swimming... but I don't remember why I turned back or even how I got back to shore. One minute I had doubts and was exhausted, the next I was on the beach. That was when I was married to my first husband and the hopelessness and futility were overwhelming. I honestly didn't think I'd be able to get out of that relationship alive.

 

[anthony]

@anthony, do you think it could be an emotional flashback, or physical?

A flashback is vastly different from what I've tried to explain above, and has to have a prior experience to even flash back to, in order to call it a flashback.

I would take a guess that when a person resides themselves in wanting to die, that maybe they begin to dissociate prior to bypass the brains recognition system to stop the event. It is said that when a person jumps from a bridge or high place, to kill themselves obviously, that half way down they change their mind. (This is based on those who have lived, stating such after the fact) Obviously there is nothing they can do at that point... and my guess would be a dissociative state when the brain becomes so preoccupied with wanting to just end all the pain through death.

My guess is based on the fact that you can ground yourself from a dissociative state if you've learnt how to... and I have. I can get myself out of them so fast by knowing when I begin to go into them... CBT 101 basically (zoning out / trauma preoccupation). For those who never had to learn those type of things and just have sudden bouts of depression or ideation, then I can understand a person easily committing to the event until their brain was jolted out by whatever position they have placed themselves.

 

[fly away home]

Just thinking about this @anthony suicide and the choice we make. What say death took some time to achieve... unlike jumping and not being able to turn back.

Say the dissociative state has passed, reality has kicked in but the decision has been made and you are half way there.

Going through with the deed is then a conscious decision? Would that be right? There is true commitment to ending it once the dissociation has gone? If one were to die after this state has passed would you say the decision to die is about feeling the need to complete a commitment, to finish the task out of duty? Or is it a true desire to die? Would there be no doubt in one's mind?

Also is it possible the dissociation could last through a drawn out death? If the desire to turn around and not die doesn't come could this be a prolonged state of dissociation (say a few days of planning and death taking a few hours) if your conscious mind is also suicidal is that it for you?

People say that 'if they want to die they will find a way to kill themselves its going to happen no matter what' but I have my doubts about that statement.

 

[Tinyflame]

Thanks @anthony, I believe I know what you are describing, although I've only experienced it twice (granted following SI), I too thought of it as dissociation, and it was different than passive SI. What stood out for me most was that prior to it I could not remember any memories for trying. I could remember people but not any memories (trying to). That I remember because I tried to. That is why I always wondered if it could have been some sort of EFB (the emotional trigger being something in the movie?) so painful it made everything block out, but it didn't block out my awareness to where I was immediately prior to unconsciously acting on it, finding myself 'in it' as it were. If that makes sense? I find it difficult to describe. But dissociation and underlying drive or pressure does make sense, it did feel like my mind was acting on it's own, and had made it's 'mind' up. I felt numb, actually, no emotions.

 

[anthony]

Say the dissociative state has passed, reality has kicked in but the decision has been made and you are half way there.

No doubt about the... people can consciously want to die. Suicidal ideation is a conscious thought process, and the act is often conscious. I guess I wasn't referring to that type though here... and more the unconscious, not so easily controllable process that occurs that can see any one of us dead due to a snap dissociative state when highly depressed or such. That aspect is really quite daunting IMO.

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

due to a snap dissociative state when highly depressed or such

Yes, this is what I meant posts back. I really think that is the scariest.

When highly depressed, I will get quick thought in my head of going to the nearest battlefield and hanging myself from a tree. My therapist thinks I fixate on the battlefields becasue I am envious of the long dead soldiers; their suffering is over while mine isn't.

It's pretty scary and those thoughts come really quick, they hit very hard and I zone out. Tunnel vision and it consumes me. The slower thoughts I would be less likely to act upon but those quick ones...I can see me making that rash choice and doing it. It's that powerful.

 

[Rumors]

I have often wondered what 5 more minutes would have brought to those who killed themselves. I have had a few friends who have and I am always saddened that they were so desperate they felt that was the only choice. :(

 

[fly away home]

Yea, thanks @anthony most of mine are unconscious the majority of the time and when I do want to go it's not something I would act on.

So I act on the unconscious ones but actively stop the conscious. Weird! Why do our brains what to kill us?

I lost my partner to suicide hence the curiosity as to how committed one needs to be to actually leave this mess. Could it have been prevented? Could another path have been found? How much did he really want to go? How much of it was dissociation? He was pretty zoned out and had suffered abuse .....always something I will ponder and I guess, never know.

 

[Lady of Longbourn]

nearest battlefield and hanging myself from a tree

I forgot...it is the graveyards I get drawn too. I avoid the many battlefields near me, even though I love history. Whenever I do go I feel strong sense of melancholy, grief and sorrow. Those soldiers have been gone for such a long time but I mourn them anyway.

Maybe I mourning myself? Maybe when the thoughts are strong I am not just envious but also maybe it just means something to me and I feel like I am sharing the pain if I kill myself there.

Like I said, those thoughts are fast and the worst. Those thoughts I have a hard time shaking off and seeing past when they come. Those thoughts always make me think "All I need is a rope, that is such an easy thing to get...just down the street..."

Not sure if that really adds to the thread but I felt like sharing...