Wondering About Some Peoples Perceptions Of What Being "attacked" On Forums Means?

[Philippa]

A person can feel attacked when their thoughts, views and beliefs are challenged, or worse, flat out told they are wrong. That automatically makes someone go on the defensive.

YES, this has been my conclusion as well. When I would be told I was attacking others, on a personal development forum I used to go to (got banned for "attacking" and they all thought I got some perverse pleasure out of hurting people), it always came after I would draw attention to some view or thought they presented, which I brought up civilly and without name calling or any kind of aggressive language used...at all. It confused me at the time because I was an "out of the closet" PTSD sufferer there, and somehow everyone else seemed to be the paranoid ones when they were all supposedly 'normal'.

What I couldn't get over was how I would witness other people doing the same thing and not being reprimanded for it...so it started to make me feel like I was being made the "bad one", which felt alienating. I was then told I was the one alienating myself by behaving this way. It was kinda gaslighting when I look back on it now...though may not have been intentional. Group consensus can be a strange thing...especially when they all decide one person isn't complying to their satisfaction.

This thread has made me reflect on how easily people can be triggered, and we can never really know what is going to set someone off. how can we unless we are them? It used to really bother me, the amount of misunderstanding that I seemed to experience communicating with different people...and not just online either. It happens all the time, in real life as well. It frustrates the hell out of me because I just really want a harmonious discussion, and so often the conversation loses it's 'flow' because of things like this.

I appreciate everyones input here, and I think RussH said it best, to me, that if we have experienced being attacked psychologically, emotionally or physically, our entire lives, we will somehow expect it on some level and look for it even, so that makes it easy to understand when I think of it from that angle. Peoples memories stay with them, in their bodies, and anything can evoke them. It isn't pleasant to be viewed as someone who deliberately hurts others, when that isn't actually what is happening in reality, but it happens. Things were a lot more peaceful when I no longer had the option of going to that forum, that's for sure. :D

I hear that being sensitive enough to be able to choose timing for confrontations is definitely important, and I have also been on the other end of peoples chronic unhelpful comments. That was something else I would get accused of attacking others for at this place years ago...when I would express my frustration and honest feelings at being told to 'pray to jesus" when I would say I'm feeling like shoving a pen into my eyeball at work, and feeling suicidal...I would be reprimanded for being rude and not more thankful for the persons unhelpful comment...which felt like a smack down and fed into my own imposed stuff, where my mother would tell me I was "so ungrateful" at times when I knew I wasn't.

I don't understand why we are socially obliged to thank someone for not helping us? I do get that it is the intent to help that we are supposed to show gratitude for, but in the moment if what is being said is not helpful and actually so incredibly insensitive then shouldn't it be ok to express that if that is the natural feeling that comes up...and then add the disclosure of "but I appreciate the intent to help me...it just didn't."

It is only natural to feel ungrateful for being told something that wasn't helpful. Why is it not the case that you cannot point out that a persons comment was not helpful to you without being shamed for being honest about it? Surely honest feedback would make that person go and reflect on being more careful next time they go to "help" someone, and be sure they are saying something that actually is helpful.

Life can be so hard to navigate through. You have to wade through what is your own projections, what is others projections and what is actually REALITY!

 

[Philippa]

When you have doubts just ask for clarification as that can clear up a lot of miscommunication and misunderstanding. Attacks are personal and not just disagreement or a different opinion or being blunt.

Yes, this is a good solution. The problem is that most people, when they are feeling attacked, just assume that because they feel that way that they are being attacked, and so they don't stop to ask because they already think they are right about it.

 

[Philippa]

it may be perfectly obvious to YOU what your intent was, but it may be much less obvious to someone else. Add to that, if we happen to pick a turn of phrase that reminds the hearer of something they've "always been told" we're going to push a button we didn't even know was there.

Yes, of course there will be that experience where the person thinks they are being benevolent, and then not see how their comment is actually quite horrible or insensitive...and human relations often feel like I am walking through a minefield, never knowing when I'm going to step on one.

We all vary in how sensitive, or insensitive we are to negative feedback, even without adding layers of issues on top. So, at least I think, there are going to be different thresholds for what is perceived as intolerable or abusive.

True. I just find it interesting to see when someone cries 'attack' about something I would not even batt an eyelash about, and then what I consider to be an attack someone else may perceive me as a wimp for not letting it slide or seeing it for what it was. Individuals have such different thresholds.

You pointed out some things I hadn't thought of, like people using the whole "She's picking on me!" thing as a way to get attention or manipulate things. Interesting, to me, because I pretty much NEVER think of that angle. It's kind of "one of the holes in my road map of reality". We all have those and they vary. I suspect you're right. And then, I guess you have to consider different personalities (and, maybe, disorders) and what people have learned "works" over their life times.

It probably isn't always the case when this happens of course, but I think that at least for some people...crying "attack" can often take the focus off themselves and can be a way of drawing attention to themselves, playing the victim, and creating a drama where there wasn't one...for whatever reason. I think a lot of the time it stems from plain boredom.

Some people may just be "blunt" or "outspoken". Others may have learned they can say what ever they want and then get let off the hook by saying, "I didn't MEAN to hurt your feelings! You took that ALL wrong. I was only trying to help, I'm just kind of blunt."

Yes, this is true. I have admittedly said this before. I was sure the person was taking me the wrong way though. I did not have any malicious intent there, but somehow was taken that way. But I have said "I'm just blunt" which does put the onus on the other person to just accept me the way I am, and adapt to me, without me having to look at how I may be affecting them...which is a bit arrogant. "I didn't mean to hurt your feelings" can be an easy get out clause. It's saying "I'm going to let myself off the hook now because even though you are hurt I will make it about me and not think about you at all."

And then there are going to be people who've spent a lot of time dealing with people who have been manipulative, and they probably are going to have a real hard time taking things at face value......

True.

I don't think there's a one size fits all answer to your question. I try to look at this place as a chance to learn. Not only about PTSD. Also about how to play well with others. I guess you can't expect to do that without a few skinned knees! :) I WILL say, I've been really impressed with how LITTLE of that sort of thing there is here. Especially considering this is basically a gathering of people with one, or more, mental health issues! I've seen a lot of gathers of people WITHOUT any diagnoses that aren't nearly as civil.

I think the emphasis here is to provide sufferers with the comfort they may not be getting anywhere else in their lives offline, and that is something we can all easily relate to, so it's definitely something that makes this place so unique and pleasant to visit. I have noticed disharmonious threads where things get misunderstood though, and it has been happening more frequently. Maybe I just pick the threads that have these conflicts?

I've been told before by my mother and other women who reminded me of her, that I "can't live without conflict", so maybe I do gravitate towards it in some ways, but I have always maintained that it's not that I love conflict...I find it just as uncomfortable as most people...the difference is I recognise it can be an excellent catalyst for real growth and the opportunity to practise communicating in a way that will be effective without dancing around eggshells. I believe it can be done...it just rarely ever happens that I find people willing to go there with me and talk through an issue, confronting it rather than pretending it doesn't exist.

 

[joeylittle]

I think that at least for some people...crying "attack" can often take the focus off themselves and can be a way of drawing attention to themselves, playing the victim, and creating a drama where there wasn't one...for whatever reason. I think a lot of the time it stems from plain boredom.

I think this is extremely accurate. Both the use of crying wolf as a diversion and also that it comes from boredom.

 

[catjudo]

calling someone out

choose timing for confrontations

If you're trying to call someone out on their behavior or looking for a confrontation, I don't think you can be surprised when they don't react well. You can offer a different perspective or opinion without looking for a confrontation. It's all in how you offer your different opinion. But if you're choosing to initiate a confrontation, you can't be surprised when you illicit that response from someone.

 

[Philippa]

If you're trying to call someone out on their behavior or looking for a confrontation, I don't think you can be surprised when they don't react well. You can offer a different perspective or opinion without looking for a confrontation. It's all in how you offer your different opinion. But if you're choosing to initiate a confrontation, you can't be surprised when you illicit that response from someone.

I'm not surprised by it. I expect people to be upset if I point out behaviour they don't like hearing about.

I wouldn't say I look for confrontation, just that sometimes it is necessary unless you want to let someone get away with behaviour that isn't acceptable or that impacts on your life somehow. Confronting someone with an issue that exists between us isn't the same as attacking them.

What I am speaking about here is different peoples ideas and perceptions of what being "attacked" is.

 

[catjudo]

let someone get away with behaviour that isn't acceptable or that impacts on your life somehow

I can't imagine a scenario where anyone on the forum would have said something that would impact on your life in such a way as you have no choice but to initiate a confrontation.

That being said, perhaps it comes down to a difference of opinion on what feels attacking to someone. We can all agree that blatant name calling is definitely attacking. But maybe, to some people, there can feel less obvious forms of attacking. You've talked about calling people out, not letting people get away with things, and confronting them when you deem necessary so as to not let them get away with something. When you do those things it can, at best, come across as passive aggressive. The key word there being aggressive. If you're being aggressive with people, some of them are bound to feel attacked whether or not that fits the very simplistic (but appropriate) definition of attacking that is used on this forum. Afterall, one definition of attacking is to criticize or oppose fiercely and publicly.

 

[Ghostybear73]

I agree @catjudo. I have student's, that do not speak Spanish, ask to be pulled from sites because the staff are speaking Spanish in front of them and even looking at them and snickering while doing it and the student feels as though they are being attacked (verbally). In this scenario, you can hardly say that they are talking about you since you have no idea what they are saying. However, when you are talking to them, if you say something like, "they were probably talking about the weather, it's not all about you", they are going to get defensive, that's human nature (at least for most people).

It is all about perception and everyone has their own perception when it comes to a single event, how you deal with it is what makes the difference in the responses you get.

 

[Philippa]

I can't imagine a scenario where anyone on the forum would have said something that would impact on your life in such a way as you have no choice but to initiate a confrontation.

I wasn't speaking specifically about this forum catjudo.

That being said, perhaps it comes down to a difference of opinion on what feels attacking to someone. We can all agree that blatant name calling is definitely attacking. But maybe, to some people, there can feel less obvious forms of attacking.

Yes, I think I and other people here have already reached that conclusion. What feels like an attack and what IS one are sometimes very different things.

You've talked about calling people out, not letting people get away with things, and confronting them when you deem necessary so as to not let them get away with something. When you do those things it can, at best, come across as passive aggressive. The key word there being aggressive.

So, you consider being gaslighted to be something not worthy of confrontation. Is it passive aggressive to call someone out when I see this behaviour...or if I am being blatantly bullied? I don't think that's passive aggressive at all. I think that is having clear boundaries and not allowing them to be transgressed actually.

In one scenario, a suicidal man came on and posted a thread about how he wanted to die and asked people to please not convince him life is worth living. One guy who frequented the place came on and told him he'd have a legion of entities from the spirit world come around and heal all his troubles!

This guy claimed to be a demon hunter and really believed he was one. I called him out for trying to feed his own ego at someone elses expense. Was that passive aggressive of me? You don't have any real context to these scenarios and yet you've decided I'm being passive aggressive? Interesting.

If you're being aggressive with people, some of them are bound to feel attacked whether or not that fits the very simplistic (but appropriate) definition of attacking that is used on this forum. Afterall, one definition of attacking is to criticize or oppose fiercely and publicly.

Since you were not actually witness to any of the scenarios I am speaking about, I don't think it makes sense to accuse me of passive aggression or even aggression. I was not being aggressive when these situations came about...I was a bit perturbed, and sometimes things did cross over into snarkiness and often I was perplexed and frustrated, but I wouldn't say I was being aggressive.

I was accused of all kinds of behaviour I wasn't guilty of. From attacking people to being racist. Just asking someone if they were jewish, in one incident, earned me the reputation for being a racist...which no one forgot. Again, without full context of the scenarios, which are in the past now, it's hard to give an accurate idea of what I was speaking about.

It seems as though you have decided I am speaking about me confronting people in THIS forum. I am not. I am speaking about past times, and also times off line.

I understand the concept of aggression as a form of communication not being the most effective one, so I don't really need to be told that.

 

[Philippa]

I agree @catjudo. I have student's, that do not speak Spanish, ask to be pulled from sites because the staff are speaking Spanish in front of them and even looking at them and snickering while doing it and the student feels as though they are being attacked (verbally).

I agree, and different people do sometimes take things personally like that and then feel attacked. I've just spent 6 months surrounded by asian women who spoke asian all day around me, even though they could speak english. It's hard not to think that sometimes they are snickering about you, to your face, knowing that you cannot understand them...but it probably isn't true that they do it all the time. They probably are speaking about a whole bunch of other things that maybe aren't even that interesting...so why worry about it? That's how I would think about it anyway.

It is all about perception and everyone has their own perception when it comes to a single event, how you deal with it is what makes the difference in the responses you get.

Yes, very true.

 

[catjudo]

It seems as though you have decided I am speaking about me confronting people in THIS forum.

I'm not sure I would say that I have decided anything. But I have approached the conversation from the perspective of this forum because that is where this thread and conversation is.

.I was a bit perturbed, and sometimes things did cross over into snarkiness, but I wouldn't say I was being aggressive.

Personally, when someone is being snarky with me, it does come across as passive aggressive.

You now seem to have gone on the defensive rather than just either accepting my personal opinion or discarding what isn't useful to you. Your defensiveness is coming across as confrontational to me. I'm going to walk away from this thread because I will not be pulled into a confrontation. I wish you the best.

 

[Ghostybear73]

I must admit, you have a better handle on it than me @Philippa. If I'm feeling attacked, I respond as you just did with @catjudo.

Its not easy for me to just say, "why worry about it", especially when it "feels" hurtful to me me. I'm sure that is the PTSD talking and hopefully, I will be able to shrug things off like you do at some point.

I think it gives me hope in the future to know that that kind of control over my emotions is possible. I hope you realize though that although you can shrug it off, some still can not.

At least that is my perception on the thread topic as to why people "feel" attacked, even when you "feel" it is not