Sympathy - It Is Creeping Back Here

[Mercy]

being thick headed

Anthony,

I'm sorry. I must be really thick headed.

If each severe flashback brings all of that particular traumatic experience into the present and leaves us with all the emotions we felt then, in the present, when it is over; then it seems to me like a present day trauma, even a retraumatization. I know that a large part of ptsd work is separating the past from the present in all its forms: flashbacks, panic attacks, isolation, triggers selfmedicating..the list goes on.

I'm not sure which catagory you would like to use here, sympathy for the pain and suffering, the presentness of the grief and horror or empathy. For me, empathy is good but does not 'bathe the wound' in the same way. When I can get to the processing stage, then empathy is entirely appropriate.

???????????????????:dontknow:

 

[freya]

I think the issue of wanting to seek sympathy could have been adressed in a more (sic) sympathetic way.
Personally I'm not very happy to be overly told to be this or do that.
A request or a suggestion is nice. I think I understand there's a need for clarity and rules, but I think on this forum it's being overdone.

Comparison: when people here in my city don't like it that dogs do their business on the street in front of their house, some of them put up a sign that says 'please pick up your dog's turds, thank you'. Others put up signs with sarcastic comments insulting every dog owner that passes.
Which one is more effective?

Freya

 

[freya]

Sorry for having posted that - that's one of my personal healing goals: to learn to stop taking part in discussions that aren't going to bring me anything...

Freya

 

[Tinyflame]

For me, empathy is very welcomed when in particular it comes from someone that I trust more. To me, even if the other person hasn't gone through the same thing(s), they are trying to put themselves in your shoes for a minute.

Then, if you trust them, in essence you open up more communication between you and the next natural occuring step (for me) is, ok, what"s next? (i.e. let it pass, acceptance, or apply something else towards an active solution, so to speak).

Whereas, while sympathy at the moment is appropriate, I agree with Anthony, after the fact it feels like pity which I find a really awful feeling - would rather not have that at all, for myself, makes me feel ashamed and uncomfortable.

 

[Auburngirl]

Another angle to this (or complication) came to me yesterday when I was looking at the name of an internet service provider - sympatico. This is an international community and in French and Spanish the word that sounds like sympathy (Sympathique, simpatico) means something quite different (ie you would say that a nice or kind person is "sympathique")

People often assume that words that look similar mean the same thing, so it might also be good to have a clear definition so that people who are looking for kindness don't get put off.

 

[cragger65]

I'm glad you brought this up, AuburnGirl, I was sure someone had said something like this by now, but I couldn't face plowing through 12 pages to see who it was :O

It's one of those words that has a double meaning, or intonation. Actually, it's more than symantics, they are healthy and unhealthy pairings.

There is the sympathy/pity pairing, which is not healthy or constructive. Both parties feed on it, and it tends to end badly, with one party being angry, and the other feeling offended and "unappreciated". It's actually a somewhat selfish act (and there is no offence meant in this, just for illumination of the point) on the part of the pitier, an attempt to view themselves as "the strong one". A self-inflating life raft, actually. It's usually not done to cause harm, but to relieve their own suffering - temporarily.

Then there is the sympathy/compassion pairing, which is not only healthy, but rewarding and constructive to both parties. It's doing a little editing between what you feel and how you phrase it in order to be helpful. I've not done this editing a couple of times here, but some of this shit is overwhelming, and I'm still working on my over-reactions. But my compassion, I refuse to relinquish. I believe it to be our greatest gift.

'Nuff said.

 

[Mercy]

temporarily.
But my compassion, I refuse to relinquish. I believe it to be our greatest gift.

'Nuff said.

Cragger, You are right. Having been on the receiving end, I can attest to your compassion being one of your greatest gifts. Your thoughts have often given me a calm place to settle down and take the time to look at things differently. It is as if few drops of your good compassion has the ability to turn my flask of acid back to PH neutral. :Hug_emoticon:

 

[cragger65]

Mercy,

... all I can say is "thank you"... I never know how people will take me, always just hoping that it might help in the moment, even just a little. And I have recieved your "mercy" as well, and been enlightened by your sense of compassion and acceptance. You've got a good heart.

 

[Seeking_Nirvana]

I think the one that would be most effective is the one who calls animal control. LOL

I'm sorry but I'm not trying to be mean here, and this post isn't directed solely at you Freya, but I thought the thing about the dogs pooping made me laugh.

Anyway this topic keeps getting brought up and debated. This is the 3rd time it's been brought up in the year and a half I've been a member and nothing ever changes.

If one goes back to the beginning and reads the first thread all the way to the end they will find that debating this topic will not get you anywhere.

I think there is a lesson here to learn; accept the rules. If one doesn't like the rules they simply can move on. There are other groups that are more sympathy based and I'm a member of a few. I create balance in my life by being a part of a variety of different groups that use different techniques for healing.

Not one technique will work for every individual because we are all unique and are at different places in our healing. When a person who has healed gets to a certain point in their life they tend to get annoyed when they see sympathy and self-pitty.

Before I joined this forum my mentor used tough love on me since day one, and he was not nice until I was ready to break down. I believe his technique healed me faster than just hearing people tell me how sorry they are for my hardships. This technique helped me, but everyone is different so if this is not working for anyone here, the other option is to find another group to balance this out.

Tammy

I think the issue of wanting to seek sympathy could have been adressed in a more (sic) sympathetic way.
Personally I'm not very happy to be overly told to be this or do that.
A request or a suggestion is nice. I think I understand there's a need for clarity and rules, but I think on this forum it's being overdone.

Comparison: when people here in my city don't like it that dogs do their business on the street in front of their house, some of them put up a sign that says 'please pick up your dog's turds, thank you'. Others put up signs with sarcastic comments insulting every dog owner that passes.
Which one is more effective?

Freya

 

[anthony]

There is the sympathy/pity pairing, which is not healthy or constructive.

Then there is the sympathy/compassion pairing, which is not only healthy, but rewarding and constructive to both parties.

Point well said. This is exactly what I refer to myself... sympathetic pity is not only destructive to one self, it actually assists negative emotion to feed PTSD itself, thus increase symptoms and chaos within ones life.

Tammy, also well stated and correct. Rules are here for a reason... all rules are majority based from the members themselves, not just my own or another's personal bits and pieces. Majority has always had the overall rule here. Very rarely is anything upon this forum dictated... more enforced as an editor from a majority point of view.

If each severe flashback brings all of that particular traumatic experience into the present and leaves us with all the emotions we felt then, in the present, when it is over; then it seems to me like a present day trauma, even a retraumatization.

No... its not a present day trauma. You could tell yourself this which would then justify feeling sympathetic (pity) for yourself or even wanting it from others, which simply means you just will not be healing. The other option is to trust what is known already, and instead of feeling sympathy is warranted for reliving a trauma over and over in your mind, you could say to yourself that enough is enough... at some point you have to choose to find reasoning, acceptance in what has happened, what you cannot change as the past; then find resolution to the trauma to allow you to go forward into the future... instead of this constant reliving experience. It is a choice you must make, and only each individual can make it for themself. Pity yourself, want pity from others even for your trauma, or choose to standup and take charge of your fear, your pain, work directly into it and stop hiding from the fear, the pain and the memories.

Not everyone can do it because some just simply do not want too... it is just a individual choice, nothing that can be forced upon anyone. You either accept that feeling pity is causing you negative emotion, because that is what it does factually, or; you choose to stop the pity or sympathetic need for enduring trauma, take charge and face your greatest fears..... all within your mind.

It is much easier to ignore or want sympathy for traumatic events than it is to work through them honestly, openly and directly.

 

[Nicolette]

Sometimes, some people are actually conditioned by those around them to seek out sympathy. This happens when a person gets little or limited attention however it is increased if something goes wrong, is bad or an injustice. What I mean is that some people, children especially, derived attention through sympathetic circumstances and otherwise received little. As this continues it becomes an ingrained habit. Not taking away that at some point sympathy was justifiable, and perhaps still may be, but the person acts and speaks from the onset with a desire to get attention and gaining sympathy is the way they know works. It is not a healthy mindset and some people don't even know they are doing it as it is so habitual.

 

[2notbedefeated]

I haven't read the whole thread, but I skimmed and have seen alot of valid and constructive points. Although, it is hard for me to admit that I sometimes do find myself fitting into that "sympathetic" category at times, I do realize not much will change unless I decided to change it.

I also think that perhaps both are needed at any give time depending on what the person is facing, what the situation is, how serious the issues and problems, circumstances, the level of support, etc, and etc.. I think too, it depends on where the person may be in that process of wholeness.

While I desire to be corrected and/or challenged when I am "guilty" (for lack of a better word) of distorting or misperceving something in myself, my life, or my relationships, there are also times when I fall "prey" to the human condition and seek out sympathy.

I guess it is a matter of judgement when deciding what a person needs. I would not have gotten to this point of understanding if I had not had my feelings and thoughts vaidated and compassion shown to me here at this site. I can't speak for others, but having received understanding is what I needed in order for me to begin looking at those things that need to be changed.

Change gives birth to change; and I am the one that determines the direction of that change for the better or for the worse.

However I wonder:

What if my empty love tank had never been filled because I never knew love and lived in a love depleted environment. I tend to think that before I can move on toward healing that I would need to have my starving "love hunger" tank fillled up.

Once this tank is being filled up, I can then be satisfied, at peace and better able to focus my energies on making changings, rather than being driven by that starving need for love, and to focus my energies on seeking out how to fill it.

Looking at what is constuctive rather than destructive, I guess, is pretty crucial in determining what is needed in any given individuals case.

Four months ago all h*ll was breaking loose within me and I didn't know what was what, if you know what I mean. I would not have, or atleast I think I would not have, been able to rise above all this chaos and confusion if someone had not first extended their sacrificial love out to me so that I could heal some, so that then I could move forward.

This forum site did that for me. Thank you.

I've been able to start reading alot of the helpful information you have provided to educate individuals and help them understand the healing process and what elements are needed in order for healing and freedom to come about.

I know I have been guilty of keeping myself so "busy" and my miind so "occupied" with "stuff" in order that I not face and deal with the issues that need to be addressed. I do this to distance myself from the pain and the real issues.

The pain that comes from facing, dealing, and accepting can be tremendous at times. This is where I think I am at. I need to accept those painful areas that have brought me to the point of developing PTSD an other "challenges".

Trying to grapple and come to terms with my past, to stop denying it, to stop running from it, to face it head on is really hard. To stop letting it be an excuse for my not growing, maturing and living the life I have been given is extremely hard.

I don't want to make this forum site into somekind of saving "god" in my life, but I do want to say that once I came in contact with this place and was able to share some of my "craziness" and realize I was not alone helped immensely.

I wasn't getting a whole lot of people validating my feelings and understanding the craziness which I was going through. I think when that need for acceptance and understanding, and the validation of my feelings, was exactly what I needed in order to finally put to rest my "wandering self".

Once I was able to share, risk, vent, etc., it was then possible for me to finally begin looking at my issues that needed to be addressed, and the changes that needed to take place if I wanted to see postive change in my life and family.

I know I need to avoid becoming dependent on this site, and yet right now, with this whole area of admitting I have PTSD and facing the sexual abuse in my past, and trying to make sense of all the craziness that is happening, I need reassurance of my current experience. I don't have this support anywhere else. My therapist provides what he can, but he has limits and can only do so much.

I just needed to know that there were others that could relate to some of my "stuff" and to know, because others have "gone before me", that there is a better way, there is some resolve that will take place. This gave me the encouragement, hope and strength I needed to begin to roll up my sleeves and "get to work" as they say.

I have to just make a sidenote here and say that I probably need to learn to lessen the intensity with which I "attack" my issues. My therapist has been trying to coach me in learning to bookmark "my feelings and thoughts" over the past garbage in my life and "enter" into life again. I need to learn to live life again.

I have finally begun to do that some since sharing my "stuff" here. I write it down here and I can actually begin to leave it here so I can fully present to those in my life. Instead of hanging and trying too hard to analyzing, and trying to figure out how I am going to deal with my "problems-in-living".

However, I have one question. How does one know the proper balance between "understanding, processing, integrating, accepting, dealing with" those issues that need to be addressed and changed and taking the time to lay your mind at rest and to be able to set things aside to be in the "reality of the moment?"

I don't know if I made much sense, but I tried anyway.