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Meninist Movement

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Please cite where in which wave of feminism it says that men cannot be misandrists. I mean, women are often misogynists, and that's well-accepted in the discussion of feminism. Where does it say they can't also be misandrists?

@somerandomguy, the interactions with women you are describing is not gender equality and therefore not related to feminism (the belief that we should strive for gender equality).

When I take my kids to the park and they run away to play with other kids, why am I given the stinkeye by the moms there? Why am I automatically treated like a pedophile? Why is it when I bring this up with women, I am shouted down and told to "man up?" Why, when I express my anger about this, am I told that it's not appropriate to discuss because women have it so much worse and therefore my anger over my own personal experience isn't justified?

This is a great example of something that is a feminist issue as well as a great example of you being victimized by cultural norms that emerged from patriarchal values--namely, hegemonic masculinity.

If I mug you on the street in front of a police officer, and the officer laughs it off because I am a small young woman, that is gender inequality. That is patriarchal norms saying that I can't possibly pose a real threat, because I am a small young woman. It's like the cops that used to roll up on my partner when he and his friends were hanging out in the "black ghetto:" the officers would tell my partner and his friends to get out of that neighborhood, when they were carrying and doing as many drugs as the next person in that neighborhood. That is racism, because the officer is assuming these young white boys don't pose the same threat as the young black boys around them.

I think you are seeing the patriarchal issues feminists rail against as a female problem, which is and has long been a major issue for feminists. A society built from patriarchal values is everyone's problem, and you are a fine example of how "the patriarchy" harms men as well as women. Unfit mothers winning custody of their kids over a loving father figure is a product of patriarchal norms that enforce hegemonic masculinity. That is, hegemonic masculinity states a man is not capable of providing the same care as a woman, because women are supposed to be caregivers.

A real feminist, IMO, would reject this thinking, because it is a direct product of gender inequality in our culture. A real feminist does not want more rights than men, they want equal rights for men and women, which includes us all being judged directly by the content of our character, not the contents of our pants.

I'm sorry that you see the patriarchy as a female issue when you are so clearly suffering because of this system. I know you didn't build this system as a man. None of the men I've met, including ones who were predators, built this system. None of the women I've met, including the ones who enjoy patriarchal gender norms, created this system. We are participants in this system, and most of us don't even realize how we participate.
 
@somerandomguy I am not going to waste breath denying that there are people who believe the things you explain and rail against. Yes, there are people who are awful.

They represent the extremes of the movement. They are often the loudest voices because... that's how extremists work. That doesn't mean they represent a majority opinion.

I've seen 21 therapists, mostly women but some men. Most of them haven't taken any of my assaults or rape seriously either. It isn't that people just don't believe men. I think that men receive even more denial and retraumatization from lack of support--but I think that it happens to both men and women.

For the record, I'm aware that I'm a misandrist. I'm sorry for this. I wish I wasn't. I work on it. I don't hate individual men. Once a man becomes Robert instead of White Guy Standing There I don't hate them anymore... but I have really serious issues with men. I don't think that the patriarchy existing changes the fact that I am a misandrist. (I take steps to not be a jerk about it.... I just have the thoughts.)

Your anger over your personal experiences is TOTALLY justified. You get to be angry about bad things that happen to you. I'm sorry the park is stressful.

It isn't fair that women automatically see every man at a park as a potential predator. It's not fair. But the women have to weight the risk of possibly hurting your feelings by misjudging you with the possible outcome of not being aware enough and their kids getting targeted. Most people are not *capable* of placing the feelings of outsiders as more important the safety of their spawn. It's a lizard brain thing.

That said: I go out of my way to be friendly and welcoming to fathers at parks. I know that it is a hard road for men to become more involved in child rearing and I'm grateful for every ounce of effort I see--even though I'm not benefiting. Thank you for taking your children out even though people suck. People totally suck.

You've got a lot of hurt here. As a woman I hereby grant you permission to have your feelings and really feel them. If you give a $h!t about my opinion that is. But I usually like it when people tell me I have permission to have feelings. I made my husband write up a note "Krissy is allowed to be here." and he signed it and I carry it everyone in my wallet because it helps me with my feelings of panic. Otherwise I feel like I don't belong places and I should be punished and excluded immediately.

If you think me giving you permission for feelings is awful, rude, or overstepping please feel free to just ignore that bit. I was trying to be kind in the way I understand. I understand it doesn't look the same way for everyone.
 
I'm sorry that you see the patriarchy as a female issue when you are so clearly suffering because of this system. I know you didn't build this system as a man. None of the men I've met, including ones who were predators, built this system. None of the women I've met, including the ones who enjoy patriarchal gender norms, created this system. We are participants in this system, and most of us don't even realize how we participate.

Then please spread the word about this to the women who think because I'm male that I built the patriarchy and that I am personally responsible for keeping women down. I would love to be rid of gender norms, but I feel far more oppressed by women than by other men. Maybe that's just my perception, but somebody told me I was allowed to feel it.
 
For the record, I'm aware that I'm a misandrist. I'm sorry for this. I wish I wasn't. I work on it. I don't hate individual men. Once a man becomes Robert instead of White Guy Standing There I don't hate them anymore... but I have really serious issues with men. I don't think that the patriarchy existing changes the fact that I am a misandrist. (I take steps to not be a jerk about it.... I just have the thoughts.)

Thank you for admitting that women (much less yourself) can be misandrists, which appears to be a very uncommon opinion. It would be nice if we could all be this honest, all the time. I am very aware that, likewise, I have trouble with women and that I am extremely defensive when I feel attacked as a man. I do try very hard in my non-online life to see women as individuals who have problems of their own. It is easy for me to forget that the people behind the screen are real individuals who are going through their own shit.
 
Thoughts? Opinions? Counter Arguments?


I found this Q&A convincing.
PS I recently learned 2 new modern vocabulary words, Mansplaining and ManSpreading while the latter is pretty clear, although it's not an aggressive thing, it's just very natural and comfortable and can be inconsiderate in some circumstances. For the former word, I haven't seen a concrete definition.
 
Mansplaining = explaining to feminine-identified people / anyone not men their experiences as if an authority, as far as I know. Or, in other words, being an inconsiderate, not asking those people first and not listening to them, jerk.
 
My personal position is that I'm not a feminist, meninist, humanist, equalist or anything like that. I am very wary of categorization into ideological groups because I like to think freely and don't like my position controlled in any way by others. I'm not liberal or conservative either. I like to take what's useful or correct from different viewpoints. I try to not take extremist positions ( although I have). Obviously, I don't think that women are stupid or inferior, in some circles I think that certain women are quite frankly the best, unlimited competion aerobatics has two that I believe are probably impossible to excel.

My (educated) opinion: The best aerobatic pilots are Svetlana Kapanina and Patty Wagstaff, both women. The best drummer is Gene Krupa, a White man. The two best, or at least most, influencial people in surgery are both Black men, Vivien Thomas and Ben Carson.

I really only put racial or sex qualifiers to highlight that none meet the 'stereotypes' of race or gender. I personally admire the best.
 
@Cashew I still don't understand and Google isn't helpful not even the examples because of viewpoint bias. I'm really more accustomed to very precise terminology-Non-movement area, Excitation current, even if made up or popularized- selfie. I'm afraid that ' mansplaining' isn't useful to me. Thanks for trying to explain.
 
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