Attitudes - Physical Vs Mental Illness

[shimmerz]

because the physical can be easier to deal with

Does it help to see it? I mean, sorry, please keep in mind I am processing this pain stuff for the first time. So forgive my ignorance in all of this. I am not asking these questions to annoy people. I just don't know simple things.

People are telling me things that they 'see' about me. They are looking for visual signs and seem to be gauging how sick they think I am by how I 'look'. I suppose it allows them to compartmentalize and I notice along with that is advice. They can't really empathize (and then potentially offer advice) if they can't put it into their own box of experiences? If one is hanging out with someone who is in pain of some sort I suppose it would could make them feel deficient in some way?

 

[Recovery4Me]

People are telling me things that they 'see' about me. They are looking for visual signs and seem to be gauging how sick they think I am by how I 'look'.

How are you doing with your recovery from surgery, btw? And just what should you look like?:clown: I mean seriously, you have just been dragged through the mud physically, heart wise, & stressed beyond belief trying to find a home! So please don't tell me;) that on top of this....you are committing scandal by not wearing designer armor or the proper shade of lipstick for your public. :inpain: :hug::hug:

My goodness expectations run high in your circle. xx (.) (.) Bless your heart...start asking for donations for a day of beauty at the spa.:clown: Bet they will hush.

 

[moonbeam]

Does it help to see it? I mean, sorry, please keep in mind I am processing this pain stuff for the first time. So forgive my ignorance in all of this. I am not asking these questions to annoy people. I just don't know simple things.

There is nothing wrong with not understanding SI or asking questions about it.

For me (though I haven't done it in months yay!) It comes about from a variety of reasons, like self hatred, punishment, or feeling overwhelmed and just pain I can't see. Sometimes I feel helpless against my mental health issues. Having a physical pain, I can see it, I can treat it that helps with mental pain. And because I don't always treat my mental health right, its easier for me to practice self care for a physical injury than a mental one.

Since I am the only one who can actively improve my mental health, I can see how others would feel even more helpless. That doesn't mean they should avoid or deny it.

Ultimately, while I can understand why the whole situation is frustrating. Nobody can change the past, maybe the best thing you can do now is to try and build a relationship going forward.

 

[sun seeker]

Does it help to see it? I mean, sorry, please keep in mind I am processing this pain stuff for the first time.

I'm not sure, because I have normal pain perception so my experience is all about feeling it. My post had only a little to do with SI, and different people do that for all sorts of different reasons. I was mostly writing about how the body can turn emotional pain into physical pain, not necessarily about doing that on purpose, if that makes any sense. I do know someone who has cuts from SI injuries who says when she is feeling the same thing she felt when she inflicted them, she traces over the scars with a pen to remind herself they are there, and then doesn't feel the need to make more.

In your case there would have to be different reasons for manifesting physical symptoms, and I'm sorry I didn't think those through carefully before posting. It would make sense that your body wouldn't turn emotional into physical pain if you don't feel physical pain. Maybe your reasons for physical symptoms would have to be more for purely physical reasons than most people's. I don't know. I'm mulling this over but at the same time distracted by other things going on. I'll see if I have any insight on this later.

 

[sun seeker]

If one is hanging out with someone who is in pain of some sort I suppose it would could make them feel deficient in some way?

I think there can be all sorts of responses to being with someone in pain. I'd make a terrible doctor, there's no way I could separate myself enough from my patients.

Maybe you could start unraveling this by looking at what it is like for you to be with someone in pain?

 

[joeylittle]

If one is hanging out with someone who is in pain of some sort I suppose it would could make them feel deficient in some way?

Yes.

I think it's ultimately up to us to illuminate people or not expect anything. If I don't describe to someone what my sadness is like, how it feels physically, what the difference is between 'bad', 'worse', and 'manageable' - how are they going to know?

I wish that people could just know. But they don't. Make an effort with the ones you want to make an effort with (this includes your care-providers), and be willing to let all the others go. It's hard. Marsha Linnehan (DBT) has this great thing she says on one of her training tapes. She asks, "how many of us are disappointed on our birthdays, because nothing special happened? There is only one way to not be disappointed on your birthday. Tell people its your birthday and make plans with them." I'm paraphrasing, but you get the idea. It really rang a bell for me, because I, like many of us, grew up without a secure sense of self. So a day like my birthday is just ripe for insecurities to blossom. But there is a very straightforward solution to the problem, and it is to tell people and make plans.

Straightforward doesn't mean easy. Not at all easy. But if I want people to help me with my invisible illnesses, I really need to take responsibility for communicating about them, and figuring out what I need so that I can ask for it.

It's not especially different with physical, obvious injury - but people stand a better chance of guessing how to be helpful, and it's possible to avoid having to figure out how to talk to them about what you are dealing with.

 

[shimmerz]

There is only one way to not be disappointed on your birthday. Tell people its your birthday and make plans with them."

*heavy sigh*. Now don't get me onto birthdays too! :meh: Dysfunctional families use birthdays and holidays to make scapegoats suffer. This is a whole other post. :eek:

If I don't describe to someone what my sadness is like, how it feels physically, what the difference is between 'bad', 'worse', and 'manageable' - how are they going to know?

Maybe you could start unraveling this by looking at what it is like for you to be with someone in pain?

Yes, thank you Joey and Sun. This is true. This would be the missing link for me. If I don't know how that feels, well, I certainly can't explain it to others. I am okay with others who are in pain you see. I can attach to their suffering but not the 'pain' per se. So I can work things through when someone else is in pain without clouded vision. I am pretty logical about the whole thing. Now I know why. This would explain, looking back on things, why people would come to me when things were too much for them. And I would sit with them through it to the bitter end. And this may well be why I don't understand other's reactions to me through these difficult times. Because they can feel me. And myself, I have no experience of that. I just get on with business, helping them to work through it.

I never had a problem with letting people know what I could articulate and dropping in a dead faint in front of them didn't leave much guesswork either - but I see now that it was all so dramatic for them and was not realizing it was hurting them. Yes. Got it. This is good. Thank you.

but people stand a better chance of guessing how to be helpful,

Yes. They can't see the pancreatitis thing but the first thing they say is 'omg, I hear that is so painful'. That is not my experience. Mine is more of it is annoying, I am confused by it, I am pissed off by it, and I hate not being able to move about. They relate to how they feel it must be painful for me....so there is a way that they can connect with it even though we are not connecting in the same way.

I was mostly writing about how the body can turn emotional pain into physical pain, not necessarily about doing that on purpose, if that makes any sense.

Yes, understood. It was another posting that spoke about doing it on purpose. I have noticed on the board that there is a ton of 'conversion' stuff (emotional to physical pain). T spoke about conversion disorder with me and I think that what happened with me was exactly what is happening right now. You guys feel pain and it forces you to slow down. Because I don't feel it I simply continue on - until my body would simply drop. Which made it look all drama. Attention seeking stuff.

its easier for me to practice self care for a physical injury than a mental one.

On an intellectual level I can see this. And thank you moonbeam, I appreciate your openness and not slighting me for my ineptitude with this whole thing. It helps me. :hug:
I feel like I missed the part that all infants go through of 'embodying' when they are born. Getting used to how the body works. What it can do and what it can't do. I just assumed my body could do anything. There were no restrictions whatsoever. Which is why I was the athlete, I most likely would have been considered hyperactive, daredevil, tomboy. This explains an awful lot. I need to ponder....this puts a very different slant on my experiences in life and how this will need to change. Oh boy.... :dead:

 

[sun seeker]

And this may well be why I don't understand other's reactions to me through these difficult times. Because they can feel me. And myself, I have no experience of that. I just get on with business, helping them to work through it.

This is a very interesting combination. A lot of people who could not feel other people's pain just wouldn't care about it. You obviously care, and a lot, yet are able to stay separate enough to not be overwhelmed and be able to keep a clear head. It's a very effective way to be in terms of relating to others. Now, how to make it more effective when relating to yourself?

 

[shimmerz]

Now, how to make it more effective when relating to yourself?

My strength is in logic. You wouldn't know it in my postings many times, :hilarious::hilarious: but that is how I roll. I think the awareness is helpful and I do have people here who are teaching me. I now at least have learned to 'bring' my coat with me in sub zero temperatures (not necessarily wear it) -- only took 4 years to train me to do that. No exaggeration. I now wear boots in the winter. That is big. I think I need to ask more questions, just as Joey mentioned. Like, okay, so if it is 65 degrees out, how do I dress? If my pancreas is screwed what do I need to do? Cold or not, pain or not, what do people who actually feel this stuff do about it?

What a ridiculous issue to have. :banghead::banghead::banghead:

 

[sun seeker]

I think, short of getting down to the core of the trauma and finding a way for it to be safe for your body to feel more, which is kind of a long-term project, you are going to need to treat this systematically by training yourself into a specific set of self-care behaviours. You don't have the internal cues most people have, so you'll need to learn them by practice and logic. Fortunately you do logic well. The remaining parts are information and practice. Say, put up Post-Its wherever you are likely to be reminding you that if it's been more than six hours since you last ate, you should eat. Just go through the motions until they become habit.

At 65 degrees, you need a sweater. If your pancreas is screwed, you need a doctor to find objective proof, because they can't go on the pain they usually rely on.

What a ridiculous issue to have. :banghead::banghead::banghead:

:hug::hug::hug:

 

[sun seeker]

At 65 degrees, you need a sweater.

This is assuming we're talking Fahrenheit here. Otherwise there are different problems!

 

[shimmerz]

assuming we're talking Fahrenheit here

:hilarious::hilarious::hilarious::hilarious: You are so funny my friend! Love that about you.