Relationship Riddle Me This - Interaction While Triggered/isolated?

[LoveHimThroughIt]

One of my battle buddies has known her vet for a decade but only recently started dating him. My other battle buddy has been with her vet for a decade, half as his GF and half as his wife. We're all at different stages, but all the same feelings. That is nice to know.

I already feel like PTSD has punched me in the face. I'm sure it will again. Consider this me putting together my protective sparring gear. So not just the relationship itself, but the PTSD will honemoon phase.

If I'm hearing you correctly though, what you're saying is that he's currently shielding me from the true PTSD response. If we proceed with this relationship there will come a time when I'm hit full force (like those ocean waves that got me really bad this past weekend). Even though I'm experiencing the isolation phase, you're saying I'm not really experiencing his PTSD at this time.

I'm assuming he's going to continue to isolate me until I'm actually living here. Once I'm here, and we're face to face more often he may not be able to shield me the way he wants to.

 

[Justmehere]

whoa.

First of all, people talk about the timeline because if you do too much too fast, you will increase the shut down, both in frequency and duration. The relationships that I shut down the least in are the ones that are built up slowly. So yeah, timeline matters. If you don't want him to shut down, slow down. Operate from a slow and paced timeline, even in doing nice things for him. People doing nice things for me is really stressful. Even my therapist deliberately goes slow in complimenting me, because too big of a compliment shuts me down. I will literally even back up in the chair. Go too fast, and you may actually trigger symptoms to come up fast and furious, and this will blow up the whole relationship. And you and HIM will suffer needlessly.

This is one of many reasons people "harp" on the timeline in real life and here.

If I'm hearing you correctly though, what you're saying is that he's currently shielding me from the true PTSD response. If we proceed with this relationship there will come a time when I'm hit full force (like those ocean waves that got me really bad this past weekend). Even though I'm experiencing the isolation phase, you're saying I'm not really experiencing his PTSD at this time.

This is probably very true. You are not experiencing him at his most symptomatic.

I'm assuming he's going to continue to isolate me until I'm actually living here. Once I'm here, and we're face to face more often he may not be able to shield me the way he wants to.

Actually, the closer you get, the more he will isolate you, unless you slow way down... or you bust his boundaries...

If he wants to shield you, respect that. Don't push it. Really. Don't. Let him choose how far to let you in.

I get the sense that you are almost frustrated with us, and think we are overly concerned for you. I am actually concerned about him. If you get too close too fast, you will trigger him to shut down more and trigger symptoms to get worse. If you slow down and respect his limits and boundaries, then this will go better.

In general, no one should stay in a relationship based on the hope that the other person will change. You clearly hope he will change and shut you out less. What if that never happens? You both will end up resenting each other.

My advice, for your sake and his, mostly his, is to respect the timeline - i.e. respect the need to slowly pace out the process of becoming closer or more connected with him.

 

[Sweetpea76]

Exactly. And it's by no means any kind of derogatory thing, or downplaying... it's just advice. We've all been there.

Hell, I was bopping along with my vet for like 5 months, thinking "psh, this isn't bad"... the *BAM* here comes a face-rake. I don't know what I was thinking. He had been in an inpatient treatment facility, therapy for years after, and always took his meds. I guess I thought he was "cured." Not so much. Then every time we get used to one symptom, *BAM* another face-rake. The symptom changes or is replaced by something new.

I'm very much a "ride or die" chick, but there have been some limits I have had to draw with our relationship. Like we still do not live together after being together more than 3 years. I have kids, and I haven't felt they were ready to deal with PTSD symptoms just because I was. Also, I love him to death, and right now I *think* I can handle anything that comes... but I don't "know" it for sure. It doesn't just have to be physical abuse. There could come a point where we make each other miserable. I wouldn't want that for either of us. He could get so sick that he can't function in a relationship... I can't try to make one work if it is unhealthy for him. Reality kind of has to kill the romance a little when it comes to mental health.

 

[Sighs]

Lol - @Sweetpea76, as you know, my man is an old grizzled NCO! (The Army is like the Hotel California - you can check out any time you like but you can never leave...)

I second @Sweetpea76 - the emphasis on timelines is because it takes a while before you really REALLY see the dark. My man is sweet, loving, gentle etc but once when he was stressed (and maybe even triggered - I'm not sure) he deliberately shook his bleeding hand so that the blood splattered all over my face. That's just one incident. I could give you a million more examples.

Believe it or not, there will be times when you WISH he would isolate because not being spoken to is less painful than being told its all your fault. Or that he wants to die. Or that you're an incompetent moron.

Why do you think he will see you face to face once you move? I live in the same house as my vet. He still isolates.

I guess what I'm saying is that being in a relationship with a combat vet is like swimming in the ocean. What you've experienced is just a dip in the temperature of the ocean. Its not even a wave. The further in you wade, the bigger the waves. We're not saying "don't swim". We're saying "wade in slowly to make sure you don't get out of your depth."

 

[Fadeaway]

I am going to agree with what everyone is saying about the timeline. My husband and I were on-line friends through a gaming site for 1 1/2 years before we got together. It took 5 months from the time I realized I had feelings for him until the time I told him. That was mostly because everyone else around us saw we had feelings for each other and took it upon them selves to put the pressure on.

Taking things slow kept me from isolating the first few months we were together.

My suggestion to you is to build a friendship first. Leave romantic expectation out of it for a while. At least until you are moved and settled in.

 

[LoveHimThroughIt]

Better day today since I got a full night's sleep for the first time in a month so maybe I can articulate things better for you all. If only the hotel lady hadn't vacuumed the hall outside my room I might have slept longer.

Such awesome feedback. I need to respond to certain points. I just hope by opening my mouth, I don't insert my foot into it. Be gentle folks.

I get the sense that you are almost frustrated with us, and think we are overly concerned for you.

:(:sorry:That is my own issues with "parenting" because of the neglect and abuse I suffered from my mother. I am more sensitive to feedback from females and reject any type of concern from them - I guess I don't trust it. My apologies as I know you are all trying to help. I did get defensive. I have been working on that for a few decades now and it was at bay, but seems to be flaring up for me in this situation. Emotions are running hot. I will work more on that and try not to put the guard up. It is harder to process when I am tired.

I will say that some of the advice does come across as me being scolded for doing things wrong, or that feeling a certain way will make me a doormat (which I assure you I am not and will never be) and that is hard to take since this is new to me. I didn't know that I was doing anything wrong and it is hard to feel like you're being told you shouldn't feel a certain way because I can't just turn my feelings them off. Not without turning them all off. I did that for a while when I was younger and it is not good and I don't want to go back there, so unfortunately for me I can either feel nothing at all or everything.

First of all, people talk about the timeline because if you do too much too fast, you will increase the shut down, both in frequency and duration....Go too fast, and you may actually trigger symptoms to come up fast and furious, and this will blow up the whole relationship. And you and HIM will suffer needlessly.

That is a completely different approach to the feedback I've been getting - Thank You. Communicating it that way (more clinically, I guess) makes more sense to me. So even though he is the one who set the pace as fast and furious, you're saying I need to pump our brakes. This is not all me here. We both went very fast and that could be part of what is triggering things.

I think that @Sweetpea76 understood where I was coming from when she said that it isn't that he isn't worth it. I'm tired of being told that he's not worth my time because the relationship is so new - get out now - run for the hills. I've been hearing that a lot from people who don't know anything about PTSD and again, sorry I took that frustration out on you guys. I got on the forum after hanging up from a very negative conversation with my closest friend where she told me that he's an a$$hole for not spending the week with me and I should forget about him. I don't want to be told what decision to make towards him. I want to be supported in my decision to support him and be given constructive advice (criticism if you must) on how to work through this. Sometimes it feels as if I'm being told to give up and that lights a fire in me to fight harder.

I'm especially sensitive to the concept of just rejecting someone because of a medical issue that is out of their control. My own medical issue has social implications for me. I have lost countless acquaintances (I won't call them friends anymore because friends don't abandon you) because I wasn't worth it. So now you know a little better where I'm coming from. I do want to be clear that I don't just stay in something for no good reason. My never give up approach does not have a 100% success rate.

Don't get me wrong, I'm divorced, so I have "given up" in the past. I know that in a relationship it takes two people. I fought hard for my marriage and my ex wasn't willing to do any work or take accountability for any of his actions, so I asked him for a divorce and that is over and done with. My vet is divorced. He fought hard for his marriage and his ex wasn't willing to stop sleeping with other men, so that is over and done with too. We are both tough and stubborn and believe that as long as the other person is committed to the relationship, they are worth fighting for. PTSD adds a layer of complication (I know I'm putting it mildly), but he's shown me even through all of this that he's committed. He's still fighting for me in his own way and so I will stand by him. I hope that makes sense.

(OK... mini-rant over. Soapbox is stowed away. Onto other questions/comments)

Why do you think he will see you face to face once you move?

He said that things will be different once I move and we can see each other in person. I am taking certain queues from him.

I have observed that he doesn't isolate 100% from the people he interacts with on a day to day. His kids, his ex-wife, his neighbors (he takes care of their pets and properties). He has built them into a routine and he goes about his routine. The communication is minimal but it is there.

When I move down, the relationship dynamic will be different because I will be physically here. We might run into each other at a gas station, or grocery store - that kind of thing - versus me being in another state. So I guess I look at it as two different kinds of isolation. He is averse to talking on the cell phone, texting, etc but when necessary, will talk face to face. He doesn't lock himself away, he still goes out and does things - like I said, his "routine".

He has said that there is no face to face while we're long distance and that will change when I move here. He struggles with me being so far away. It bothers him and that may be a whole other can of worms.

You clearly hope he will change and shut you out less.

I didn't say that. You can't go into any relationship hoping to change someone. I'm going on things he has said in the past. You guys aren't psychic so you have no knowledge of those conversations, which makes sense that you would react that way. He has indicated that things will be different once I move down. But in terms of his not isolating me (or not being able to shield me like he wants to), what I also meant was that instead of just ignoring a text or phonecall, if we are face to face and something sets him off, I will likely receive the brunt of the frustration, rather than just being ignored/shut out. That was what @Sighs was saying about me maybe wanting him to isolate instead of taking out his anger/issues/etc on me.

My advice, for your sake and his, mostly his, is to respect the timeline - i.e. respect the need to slowly pace out the process of becoming closer or more connected with him.

Now we're going to have to call out an old Marine Corps term "Semper Gumby" always flexible. This isn't just about me respecting the timeline of becoming closer, it is me adapting to him changing the timeline as he needs to.

Trust me when I tell you that the timeline was at warp speed prior to this - with him driving the ship. I'm not even sure that he realizes that he needs to put on the breaks on the romantic stuff. I don't think he's been in a relationship since getting blown up, so he may not realize that moving as fast as we did the first month was a trigger. If he didn't realize it then, I hope he does now.

My suggestion to you is to build a friendship first. Leave romantic expectation out of it for a while. At least until you are moved and settled in.

Oh boy. Sooooo... he set the pace! I put the brakes on at the beginning because he was moving so fast and I was out of my comfort zone, but the more we talked, the longer durations and depth of conversation... feelings came anyway. He came on heavy with the emotional stuff and I didn't at first, but I caught up and once we met in person that sealed the deal for me.

Its a little too late to have this be just a friendship, but if you're saying to focus on the friendship aspect of the relationship, I can do that. I will tell you that he doesn't want just friendship. He has expressed that he wants me to send him hugs and kisses via text periodically so he knows I still feel the same. So, I just need to walk that fine line between reassuring him of my presence and overwhelming him.

 

[Sighs]

I'm going to make one last comment and then bow out of this thread.

Just because he says it will be different once you live there doesn't mean it will be. You're there now aren't you? And he is isolating and avoiding you. So why would he not do that once you live there? He may hope that it will be different and that's why he is saying it will be, but it may not be.

Secondly, you seem to think the fact that he set the fast pace is something we don't know and would make a difference to our comments. If I had a dollar for every poster on this forum who met their PTSD partner on-line and were long distance but the relationship moved extremely fast with the PTSD sufferer setting the pace... And another dollar for every time the PTSD sufferer then backs off just as hard.

I don't think anyone here told you to run for the hills. All we're saying is you need to set your pace and hold your boundaries because its pretty easy to be engulfed by a wonderful man (or woman - shout out to the fabulous @FridayJones!) who happens to suffer from a horrible disorder.

 

[Purplemunchkin]

We can only tell you what we know; whether from our own experiences or seeing someone else go through it.

I don't tend to talk to 'other' people about problems that I know are caused by PTSD, because I know they won't understand. Just as I wouldn't have understood if a friend had come to me in the past with some of the issues I/we now face.

Everyone is unique, and so every relationship is different. But the boundaries are important to everyone (in any relationship, with or without PTSD).

One thing I found very hard to get used to is that my husband will call his parents and his ex (to talk to/about their 6 year old daughter) practically everyday. Even if he's not speaking to/in a good mood with me, he will be chatty and jovial on the 'phone to them for an hour or so.

It doesn't bother me anymore, as I know it is a backhanded compliment, and just enjoy my 'me' time in the evenings.

 

[LoveHimThroughIt]

Now I see why @Sighs is sighing so much. So at least I feel good to know that my PTSD relationship is par for the course (whether that is good or bad remains to be seen). I almost feel better knowing that this story goes the same way for everyone. Please don't tell me the success rate though, I just don't want to know. I don't want my own thoughts to be skewed knowing something like "only 1 in every 100 PTSD new relationship who met online actually makes it." Thanks for the message and you make very good points. It might not be different but I am trying to stay positive and I think it is a positive that he hopes it will be. That at least tells me that he wants it to be, even if he isn't able to make it happen. I guess we have to take the little things. He wasn't totally zero dark thirty this week. There were a few texts during the week. I am content at this time with my weekly check in texts. I flew back yesterday, so I'm not there anymore.

@Purplemunchkin thank you for sharing. It is good to know what you're going through. I struggle with the whole "he can talk to others, but not me" part and not taking it personally. How long did it take you to be ok with that?

 

[Justmehere]

If I had a dollar for every poster on this forum who met their PTSD partner on-line and were long distance but the relationship moved extremely fast with the PTSD sufferer setting the pace... And another dollar for every time the PTSD sufferer then backs off just as hard.

This ^^^

As a PTSD sufferer, I have done this myself a handful of times, especially before I got into treatment. It leaves both me and the supporter confused and hurt. Now I have learned how to pace, and I ask my partner to pace out the relationship with me and my relationships are much better and healthier for it, and I shut down a lot less.

Please don't tell me the success rate though, I just don't want to know. I don't want my own thoughts to be skewed knowing something like "only 1 in every 100 PTSD new relationship who met online actually makes it." Thanks for the message and you make very good points. It might not be different but I am trying to stay positive and I think it is a positive that he hopes it will be.

No one has actually said there is a slim chance of this relationship working out - I think that's you projecting your fears onto us. It's understandable, but we are rooting you on for success!

If you are willing to slow down, and work on your own "stuff" (and everyone has stuff) that you bring into the relationship as well, and he is working on his "stuff," then there may actually be a really good chance of the relationship working out better than most relationships where PTSD isn't a factor.

I'm glad he did text you a bit this week, and I hope this relationship continues to grow.

 

[LoveHimThroughIt]

No one has actually said there is a slim chance of this relationship working out - I think that's you projecting your fears onto us. It's understandable, but we are rooting you on for success!

I'm not trying to project my fears, just share them. Sorry it is coming out badly. I am full of fear and very anxious about how this will play out. I prayed to God for patience... so now, I have this on my plate. He has given me quite the lesson in patience. I know you are all trying to prepare me. Everything sounds so horrible, as if there is a snowball's chance in hell of success. PTSD is terrible and honestly, I feel like as far as reactions go, I'm a complete failure. I'm worried that I've done such a poor job of handling things. My friends are trying to reassure me that for a first time I'm taking the right steps, but I won't feel better until he tells me that I didn't totally screw this up and drive him insane. I believe I am feeling a healthy and respectable level of fear about the situation now. I will "prepare for the worst, and hope for the best."

If you are willing to slow down, and work on your own "stuff" (and everyone has stuff) that you bring into the relationship as well, and he is working on his "stuff," then there may actually be a really good chance of the relationship working out better than most relationships where PTSD isn't a factor.

I am most definitely willing to take a step back and work on my stuff - 200%. I believe that if we both want to make this happen, and are willing to work hard, we can make it work. My bad days are bad and today is my first day since I flew back/away. My battle buddies have been working double time today to keep me positive because now I'm back to being 800 miles away and the doubts hit me today. I'm second guessing myself again. Working on it though.

I think my being there was bad for him. I tried to explain that I wanted him to take care of himself and not try to see me because I knew he couldn't right now. I thanked him for picking me up from the airport, and being willing to let me borrow his truck. I got the rental car and I hope that let him know that he was off the hook for the week and could take care of himself. I even emailed him on Friday to tell him that I was ok if he couldn't see me off on Sunday (he had been planning to try). It was more important that he take care of himself. He didn't come, so I'm hoping he read it.

I hope that he isn't beating himself up over it. He wanted to see me but couldn't. He had an opportunity to spend time with me and he couldn't. He might be feeling guilty or that he ruined my week or that he hurt me. I tried to explain that while this was hard, I was coming to terms with things and my head is in a better place and I have people to have my back and support me. He didn't ruin my week and he shouldn't feel bad or guilty about us not spending additional time together. I'm grateful for the time we got Friday night. He just feels things so deeply, that I think my presence in general might have been detrimental to him. I know he was feeling things on Friday when he picked me up - he tried to let the walls down a little. I hope he wasn't too overwhelmed by all of the feelings. I hope that his brain was able to wrap around the fact that the purpose of my visit wasn't to see him - seeing him was going to be a perk, but not the sole purpose. I had the trip planned before he and I even met!

Thank you for rooting me on. I want this to succeed. More though, I want him to feel better. That is the most important thing. He's in a very bad way right now. The combat anger is out in full force, not directed at me, but I see the tone of his Facebook posts changing - bitter about treatment of veterans, and healthcare and government/politics. Issues with immigration, ISIS, etc. One of the posts he put up (overnight because he's not really sleeping right now - he's been online overnight quite a bit in the last few days) was a picture of a bunch of guys in full battle rattle in a sandstorm and it said "I miss my brothers. I miss getting shot at." so clearly he is feeling like he should be deployed and/or he feels out of place being back in the civilian world.

I think I figured out what has happened that is causing his stress/trigger. He was recently retired on full disability. He didn't get to serve his full 20, so I don't think he meant to be retired this soon, but he got injured and now he's out. He was an NCO which means he had people he was responsible for. I think that his Battalion might have re-deployed... without him.

I pray every night for God to protect him, keep him safe, give him peace of mind, relief from pain. I am supporting him from a distance the only way I know how. I'm taking care of myself so that I can be my best self and help my battle buddies too. It is the only thing I can do for him right now :oops:

Tonight is one of my dial-in PTSD Meetings. Thanks to my trip last week, I now have one to dial into on Wednesdays too. My IRL one is every other Thursday. In between, I've got to plan out my Fisher House Food Night. I'm thinking Thursday - make it a football theme and do a three bean chili!

 

[LoveHimThroughIt]

Holy breakthrough batman. So, I gave him space and I limited myself to only texting him to tell him I had gotten on the plane and had landed safely. I had sent him a few emails which is ok with him because he will email them when he's ready. Well, I know he was going to appointments and whatnot from what he told me. Out of the blue today, he texted me. I thought it would be much longer before I heard from him, but it appears he's made some progress. I will share what he said to me because it meant a lot to me.

First he said he hated himself for putting me through the demons he has to battle. Then he said that he never meant to hurt me and that he cares about me a great deal and he let me know he was getting the help that he needed.

That made my heart so happy. Plus he was writing in full sentences again. When he's triggered he drops to abbreviations "u" instead of "you" and "ty" for "thank you" that kind of stuff. Full sentences is a good sign.

So I figured that would be it because he had just expended so much emotional energy. I had replied to let him know that I was here for him and we were in this together and I would be there for him. I didn't expect him to text me again!

He told me that he needs me and he wants me in his life and wants to be in my life and he said now that he was getting help from the VA he hoped he could work his issues out.

He was/is on meds, but now it seems they aren't enough and now he is taking it one step further through the VA. I'm wondering if my being so active in PTSD Support Meetings and groups and it having a positive impact on me helped him to realize it was ok for him to reach out and get help too. I hope that is the case. I hope that someday, we can go to support together. I won't push it, its just a hope.

So I'm dialed into a PTSD Meeting that is wrapping up right now. My friend takes me with her to her local ones and I attend via phone. I have no plan to stop attending just because today is a good day. This is a crazy journey of self discovery and I'm thankful to be on it.