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News Fear Of Another 9/11

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@enough

I have a feeling the "get your education here and go back home" thing would be an utter flop. Well, in practice it very much is. We've allowed people to come here to get an education but then they don't go back home. The government allows them to stay regardless of what the original purpose/intent of coming to the USA was (as stated on visa documents). I fear it would be an open avenue to manipulate the US government. As it stands, we wouldn't make someone return home if they got their degree here. I guess what I'm saying is that I don't see that sort of program working in the long run to educate people of other countries and ensure they use that knowledge to help their home country.

Don't get me wrong. I don't believe in closing our borders. I don't believe that at all.
 
@EveHarrington
Yeah, in the short form of my proposal there are definitely gaps in the logic, you are correct. But in the abstract, education is the fix. maybe if we were building schools and spending 10% of what we spend on weapons on infrastructure and educators, we might start some good will and earn some hearts and minds over there. when a higher level of thought reaches critical mass in a population, flying airplanes into buildings and strapping bombs on kids and women, female children with bombs and a desire to bring glory to their family- how can that continue when the general public has a level of thought beyond find a leader and follow? It has worked before, we don't lynch black people here in the US very much anymore. It is slipping but it is still much better than before and higher thought is the reason. We need more, they need more, the whole world needs to get beyond killing each other over interpretations of what amounts to basically no more than handed down interpretations of events and ideas from a time before most of us could even count our own fingers and toes.

educated and engaged people today raising kids that will be at least critical thinkers when someone suggests they strap on a bomb and hopefully growing up to be parents of children that are hopefully free of the past and able to exploit the opportunities of the future.

what else is there beyond education that could bring it about?
 
welcomed and shown the american free life where religion and art and media and music and kite flying are all OK, then shown the door and sent home to let the people of whereveristan know that there is more to life than religious zeal and mindless, blind, allegiance to a leader of any kind, alive or dead.
I'm not sure you and I live in the same America. And I think there are examples inside the US from the last 10 years that show we have just as much of an issue with managing our own religious zeal and mindless blind allegiance. Freedom of religion is, indeed, a concept in the US - but in practice, it has miles to go before it's an accepted reality.

lways remember and never forget, the largest standing army to ever cross a border with violence on their minds and a bible in their pocket was the third reich.
Yes. I wish I were enough of an historian to do the math, but reading this made me think also of the Crusades - that's altogether 200 years of religious violence, and much, much death. The correct comparison would needed to be adjusted for population disparity, and I'm just not that smart. But I bet the crusades would come close to Hitler's 12 million, if it was looked at per capita.

It doesn't really matter what side of what line of distinction between religions you think you stand on, a good well rounded education will help you and them guys over on the other side to see that the line is kind of silly and needs to be a thing of the past.
Well, no. I mean yes - in that I wish we could all respect each other and live peaceably as a global population.

But no, in that calling it 'silly' is a gross oversimplification. There is a difference between a war in which religion is a justification, and a Holy War. I wish there could be an accord between Israel and Palestine, for example - because the bloodshed is terrible, and the suffering is great. But I think it's never, ever going to be wiped away by someone saying, 'You know what? Who cares if this is holy land or not! You are all being silly'.

It's all so much more complex than that. But, I don't have a solution to put on the table.
 
@enough

Your premise is spot on. Education will indeed go a long way. I think we should work on helping to enable other countries to provide education to their people. So many countries do not have widely accessible educational systems. Many that do are expensive and families only send their sons to school. Essentially half of the workforce and mind power is being under utilized!
 
IMHO, terrorism has nothing to do with religion. People hide behind it, as though their actions are ones based on religious righteousness, but lets all be honest... zealots are zealots, and they're people who interpret writing to support their existing ideology which already encompasses violence, mayhem, and killing people.

Inner country, outer, they're all the same nut jobs hiding behind a screen of smoke and mirrors... end of the day, they're just nut jobs who like to kill people they disagree with.
 
We need to...
unattributed

^^^^big part of the problem; thinking in aggregated collective wholes, rather than in terms of diverse individuals.

I've probably lapsed into thinking in and describing aggregated collective wholes accidentally, elsewhere on this thread. It's how the mainstream generally teaches us to think, starting pretty much from birth.

There isn't any community of individuals of any size that is wholly composed of :
  • The losers for whom planting bombs, or killing other people as part of their own suicide - seems like the best opportunity available to them. Whatever the reason might be; charity any relatives they have might receive after their death, fame, notoriety, meeting 72 virgins in heaven(incidentally, those virgins might all be goats)...
  • The machiavellian power seekers who want to rule people (and to live parasitically off the productive efforts of the people who they want to order around).
any society that consisted entirely or in any significant proportion of those two groups, would starve to death very quickly. they're totally un productive and can only detract from the well being of any society that they are members of (I can give the full reasoning for why the practice any politics at all can only make the society poorer).


I don't know whether there are people who grow up to become members of one of those groups who were actually born that way. Perhaps some genetic pre disposition plus brain damage at birth?

I'm guessing that significant "environmental" factors are needed for most who end up that way, and that some people on the margins could become losers, politicians, or normal members of society who try to do decent things. It depends on what incentives and opportunities they see.

The current lamestream education, is paid for by money taken from us, and tells us that we need to thank the useless narcissistic and psychopathic liars that are politicians for everything that is good.

The exact opposite is true.

Send an army or conduct air raids? that means that productive people in the west get taxed for the useless service of killing people and making very expensive rubble and bomb craters (sure, a handful of people with political pull in the military industrial complex get rich at everyone else's expense, and give kickbacks to the politicians).

If some individuals think shooting or bombing is needed - let those individuals buy their own guns and bombs and go try it.

I'll not stand in the way when it comes to those same individuals owning the full consequences of trying it.

And what of the effects of military action?
Losers:
are generally unfulfilled people. They are either not sufficiently productive or they lack other preferences that are necessary for them to become producers. At the same time, they are not sophisticated enough to become politicians. They would like to be noticed, recognized and respected by other people, but they simply do not have the capacity to gain that respect the "right" way.

For a marginal type, conflict does not have a large cost because his life is in such a condition that he has nothing to lose. He either has no family or that family is in the state of disintegration, and his property is negligible because of his unproductivity or it is on shaky grounds because of his criminal lifestyle. Moreover, conflict is one of the ways in which a marginal type may try to be noticed by other people and to gain their respect. You will often hear a marginal type boasting about being on bad terms with someone. That’s a form of self-affirmation. Being on bad terms with someone shows that you matter; you can't be ignored. So, just as for politicians, conflict is of particular importance for the marginal types as a way of achieving their life goals.
ref http://predragrajsic.blogspot.co.uk/2013/12/the-mechanism-of-war-components.html Rajsic, as his name suggests grew up in the former Yugoslavia and its wars. I highly recommend his whole series of blog posts on the mechanism of war.

Politicians don't tend to own their own factories, warehouses, shops etc
so war doesn't damage them particularly either. If anything it gives them an opportunity to parade around pretending to be great leaders... rather than the useless, arrogant, lying shits they really are.

The people who it does damage and damage very badly, are the people in a society who make good things and do good things... The butcher, the baker, the brewer, the girl in the sandwich shop, the guy who drives the delivery van, the therapist, the gym owner, the mum with children, the ptsd forum member trying to heal...
The people who actually make society, things worth having and lives worth living.

If people can be incentivised to end up in the two useless groups I alluded to; the sort who have so little to lose that carry out violent shit, and the sort who manipulate people to do it.

what incentive is created by destroying everything that decent people value and turning their lives upside down?

and what incentive is created by an education that tells people that good things can only come by means of politics?
 
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IMHO, terrorism has nothing to do with religion. People hide behind it, as though their actions are ones based on religious righteousness, but lets all be honest... zealots are zealots, and they're people who interpret writing to support their existing ideology which already encompasses violence, mayhem, and killing people.

Inner country, outer, they're all the same nut jobs hiding behind a screen of smoke and mirrors... end of the day, they're just nut jobs who like to kill people they disagree with.
.
Just like PTSD suffferers, there is a fine point somewhere on a continuum for every person that falls within the broad description. There are most definitely terrorists that are terrorists because it is the family business or because that's what you do when you are where you are. And there are those that would be violent even without a reason like being a nut job zealot with a belief system to rationalise their own personal desire to cause suffering.

I still buy into the belief that a vast majority were and could still be basically good people with a desire to be social and productive and a member of the human race as we would all like to think it could be. They just have an indoctrinated religion planted in their brains that causes them to think that flying planes into buildings and killing infidels is a good idea (or burning crosses dressed in white hoods or rounding up jews and invading Poland).

My personal journey into PTSD was caused by narcissistic religious parents that beat me and tortured me in an attempt to mold me into being just another christian soldier looking for a leader. Getting out from under and seeking an understanding of the bigger picture has saved my life. Projecting my experience onto a whole community of terrorists that I do not personally know is a fault I come by honestly, but it is a clue to the extents of my limited understanding, most definitely.
 
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zealots are zealots, and they're people who interpret writing to support their existing ideology which already encompasses violence, mayhem, and killing people.

Agree! Its the same as a cult, twist a religon to match what you want it to say.

Quick story. When I lived in KS, the US was bringing in Iraqis that were helping the US military (unsure if the UK and Austrailia did the same); this was in '08...and when I heard that I was going to have an Iraqi family living below me, me and my 3 neighbors in the building panicked. We thought what I think anyone would think "terriosts are going to be living below me!" I couldnt have been more wrong if I tried and I learned SO SO MUCH!

His brother and uncle were murdered by terrorists and it was just too dangerous to stay there anymore. The goverment gave them minimum help and English classes at the library until they could get a job.

The 2 boys (7 and 8) we bought toys for and they didnt know how to play, they were scared about bombs. They were also terrified of my cats (cats over there are diseased). We had to teach the kids how to play, the wife how to use a washer and drier (knew no English) and the husband, the one helping the military, was the only one that knew English, he...all of them, would do anything for you.

He and I had conversation about the true muslim religon and its a very peaceful religon. He gave me an English Quran, and there is no "kill the infidals" in there! I gained mass respect for that and every relgion.

Anyone can courrpt and twist and religon to match what they want it to say and "justify" to kill people. Its so sad!

That man helped me so much on '09 after my accident and my second back surgery. He carried me up 3 flights of stairs and made his wife stay with me when he couldnt until he was satified that I was ok alone. They would have done anything for anyone.

Terroists and anyone that wants to twist something will always me around. Twisted people will always be around. But you cant live your life in a state of fear. Stay aware, alert, educated etc. Its all you can do.
 
The big 0's opinions about the bill to allow 9/11 families lawsuit against the house of Saud, and the Saud threat to dump holdings of US treasury bonds on the market:
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2016-...at-dump-treasuries-if-its-role-sept-11-probed
The first few trollish comments hit the nail on the head.
As a politician, 0 appears to value billionaire princes far more highly than the plebs he claims to lord it over.
and look what Trump's next campaign pledge is likely to be.
 
I'm not sure anything could shock me anymore. I saw a fire outside my window where a mother burned alive holding her 3 children while they too burned alive. I saw it as was near the beginning. did I call 911? no..why because I heard they were already on their way. All I could do was watch from my bedroom window. I didn't see who started it turns out it was a volunteer firefighter Caleb Lacey...The little hand print was on the bathroom window for months. 911 is everyday...so if it does happen again on that scale let's just end it all. Oh yeah I'm from NY was downtown at an immigration appointment a week later...saw the wreckage

My 2nd criterion A ... my first one was a near fatal car crash I do that crash despite 2 years of intense physical rehab, cane, back braces, ENG-NCV MRIs,acupuncture, chiropractors,endless doctors..valium, flexeril, then Tylenol 3 cuz I itch from vicodin....10 more times to erase that memory...the settlement paid for my pilot certificates upto instructor...3 more crashes maybe I'd be the Chief Pilot at Delta on the 757-767 fleet my favorite airliners.

During my 3 rd criterion A (as described in my trauma diary) I had a flashback of the first except instead of seeing it...during the alternating taze burn cycles..I experienced it.


I'm in denial of that aforementioned fact but recently due to multiple triggers everywhere..including from my T (inadvertently) I cant run anymore.

The EMTs who escorted me to the hospital were present at the blaze..they apologized for the psycho police who tortured and tried to murder me too. I was maxed on prazosin but they made sure I got my knockout ass shot fast, thankfully.

I guess my laughing had to end at one point...I hope people also can see why I am suspicious of heroes..911..couldn't drive home from college that day too many tears to see the road...

I will NEVER happen again...vide supra
 
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Sorry, a clarification since I was in the hospital for 8 days...and cant edit...immigration for my ex-wife, not me. I am a US citizens, to some, every way you cut it...
 
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