Advice to other male ptsd sufferers

[lostforgottensoul]

"men need sex to feel love and women need to feel love in order to want sex"

I want sex to feel loved and do not feel loved without sex. I want sex all of the time. Not just when I feel loved and I actully don't feel loved before sex. Its a left over issue from my trauma. Many CSA survivors feel the same. This isn't a gender thing. Many marriages I know the woman is the sexual aggressor and the one that needs enough sex. My ex made the comment often that he couldn't keep up with me to keep me satisfied in bed and I personally know women that were not abused who are the same way. Society says it's male specific but it isn't and that is simply an incorrect stigma about men. So, though that statement may ring true for some, it doesn't for all making it factually incorrect.

 

[mumstheword]

I want sex to feel loved and do not feel loved without sex. I want sex all of the time. Not...

I agree. I didn't say that though. I didn't make an inaccurate statement.I have noticed women tend to be more selective, (other than us abused and emotionally neglected ones that is, we tend to be more maladaptive for obvious reasons).
That's due to a biological imperative. Women get pregnant and if they selected badly, that could pan out very badly for them and their offspring. Whereas men will ensure their genes perpetuate the more they spread their sperm. It comes down to biological species survival. The behaviours that have been successful for survival tend to pass along generation after generation, so female sexual selection as in females that discriminated wisely, choosing males that would take care of them, have been more genetically successful than females who chose sperm donors who were brutal, callous or unfaithful and left them for other females. Check out "The Red Queen" by Matt Ridley for source material and more background information on this observation.. A book looking at sexual selection from the purely biological and zoological perspective.

So yeah, I stand by the assertion that, as a general pattern that's worked for thousands of years to bring us here, healthy females will (and have) look for men that they feel will remain faithful, be honest and provide security for their offspring, whereas for men, sex is validation, more sex (and more women to have sex with) equals success, gives them confidence, and provides more opportunity to ensure procreative success and greater numbers of offspring.

Sex is (historically) dangerous for women and can lead to death, whereas, not so much for men. So, from a genetic and primally, hardwired perspective, women are more selective and, as such, limit their sexual appetite and choise of partner to ensure survival for themselves and their offspring, men not so much. Of course, there are exceptions to this, as there are with just about all biological patterns of behaviour.

But the reality of harems and pologamy, with men being the ones to have many wives, in many cultures throughout known history, illustrates this point, whereas, given choise, women tend to push for monogamy.

Generally I'm not into gender politics so much, but I am very much a fan of biological psychology, which takes into account male and female psychology from a biological standpoint. It just makes sense to me. Just my view though. Mine and my male partners and Matt Ridleys.

I'm also speaking as a very procreative female who's had many children. I'm highly conscious of the reality of how sex makes me vulnerable and can be life threatening (I had my babies the old fashioned way, no doctors, hospitals or modern medicine available to me). I like sex as much as the next woman but bad sex choices have very nearly been the death of me.

I believe if I'd been a healthy, well adjusted women, I would have made sure the men I slept with cared about me before giving myself to them, but I was raised to feel worthless and to believe I was a tool only for others enjoyment. I had no such survival instincts so it's really some kind of miracle that I'm still alive. No thanks to all the callous and brutal men who had no care or thought about whether I cared about them (how could I? I didn't even care about myself) they were just happy to have a vagina to stick their penis's into. Not so uncommon, unfortunately. It's a mature man (or one who's been.very hurt I ie, my current partner) who only wants sex when he knows a woman deeply cares about him, many feel that sex itself is the care they crave. I'm happy to hear of differing or countering views though.

 

[richard_Grey_Area]

Men! Don’t rape women!
Victims! Being a victim doesn’t give you the right to rape women!
Men! It is not masculine to rape women!

All seems a bit disingenuous.

If you’ve found yourself in the position of sexually assaulting &/or raping women because you feel you are a victim, or to assert your idea of masculinity, I would suggest you discuss it from there.



You might want to take a closer look at what people are disagreeing with. No one has disagreed with you that rape is bad. Almost everyone has tried to point out to you that they don’t need to be told water is wet. That, in point of fact, it’s insulting and offensive.

Good morning. I am going to start with this.

Ok as previously stated, what I said was that I don't have any advice for rapists or anything to say to them (apart from the obvious).
"RAPE" is a very strong word and it stands out. I can see how this comes across as what I am saying because people who are offended wouldn't read beyond that and would assume the worst (like that I was comparing them to Hitler!) but actually, if you re-read my original post or if you read the summary I posted later, you will see that I had very little to say about rape.
For the most part I was talking about men behaving like jerks because some of them still apparently feel the need to show that they are men.
I cite some of the strongly worded responses in this thread as proof of what I am saying.

@richard_Grey_Area,

You are 100% an idiot. I'm going to completely ignore you and your posts from now on. Your misguided advice is incredibly rude, condescending, and harmful for current and future readers if this forum.

As a man, let me say that I sure wish that you weren't a man as well. You're really, really making the rest of us men look horrible.

I am a rude idiot, yes.
But, sorry to pick on you and use you as an example. I wonder why so many men feel that "men" are a group who come under attack and who need to defend themselves to preserve their precious masculinity. Do you make pee-pee standing up? do you have a Y chromosome? have you gone through puberty? if so, you are a man and aside from expensive and not always successful gender reassignment surgery, there is nothing anyone can do to take that away.
If considering a different perspective on things makes you ¨"unmanly", a "gender traitor" or somehow a threat to the "manliness" of others then I would suggest you may be less secure in your "manliness" than you like to say.
I am using the word "you" in it's plural form here, although I quoted a post to substantiate what I am saying, it is a general prevailing attitude I have noticed in our society which I want to draw attention to and to question here.

Why can't they have sex when he wants to but she doesn't? I know many of marriages go that way and it isn't rape as she said yes though he wanted it and she didn't. Fake orgasm anyone?

And what's with instructing men about sex. I've had to become celibate due to hurting men and the unhealthy-ness of my sexual encounters. And I'm female. Women can do the exact same thing. I am unsure why it's seen as a male thing as it isn't.

I think that this is what has upset many men here - "How dare you call me a rapist because I feel entitled to women's bodies regardless of how they feel about it!"
This requires a lot of discussion and I fear that I have created an atmosphere not entirely conducive to that discussion right now. But, I want to say something here. Ok "rape" is often misportrayed in our society. The idea many people have of it is that it is a hairy caveman type who uses physical force and violence to overpower a woman and have sex with her while she is struggling and screaming "no! no!".
Sometimes it happens like that.
If I were to keep a woman locked up in a small room and deny her food and water until she consented to have sex with me, would that mean that I didn't rape her because she said "Ok, I'll have sex with you". If I were to offer a woman a choice, either I shot her husband, I shot her son or she consented to have sex with me, would that not be rape because she chose to have sex rather than lose someone important to her?
No one wants to be portrayed as a rapist, but the idea many men have that they have some right to womens' bodies for whatever reason is upsetting to me. Imagine I was talking about a situation between two men. Imagine I told you that it is sometimes ok for a man to have sex with another man when he doesn't want it. Would you be ok with that? I sure as hell wouldn't!

But like I said, RAPE is like Hitler, the extreme example I use. What I have an issue with is - yes, obviously rape, but more importantly, the type of attitude I see over and over again in our society, that men feel entitled to sex from women.
Being married does not mean that you have the right to demand sex whenever and however you want it.
If a woman you are married to says she doesn't it right now and you say "tough luck! [what was the expression someone else used?] bitch get on my dick" or whatever, that's something I feel comes pretty close to rape. Many rapes take place within marriages.
Also, imagine a man was abusive to his wife and put her in hospital before over crashing the car or something. Then he told her "I want sex, if we don't have sex now, I will be angry with you" - do you really think that she will feel she is in a position to refuse?
Ok, that she stays with him is another issue and I have posted things about this before - funny, I didn't get angry responses from men then when I handled this matter in a kind of "gloves off" way... Maybe because beating up on abused women didn't threaten their masculinity?

So, I am not saying "don't rape" - please don't for god's sake! - I am saying think about what it is to "be a man", think about attitudes such as this idea that women can "owe men sex" - they are harmful to all of us.
I offer creating an environment where women can feel safer instead. I offer abandoning the idea that 1) sex is the goal of any interaction with women 2) you are somehow "less manly" if you are not having sex 3) you can obtain "the goal" by any means fair or foul and 4) you can tell women that they owe you sex.

I find the notion that men are a group and women are a group and that men must "conquer" women in order to take the rights to have sex with them whenever and however the like offensive, upsetting and very damaging. Now of course you never said that or even thought it, but you come from a society in which this sort of attitude still somehow exists.
I would like you to think about that and ask yourself if you are comfortable.

 

[Ronin]

Can you go back to trolling other forum.

And not use as metaphorical what to many people - on this specific forum, is reality. (Surprise, surprise, people actually deal with things like homicide of their loved ones, -and- then sexual violence / sexual violence prior to homicide, and the kinds of 'choices' that never were one and one can't live with.)

We're not your lab rats, move.

 

[barefoot]

barefoot.
Thank you. The way you responded is a little more encouraging.

Really? Not to be rude but I am perplexed as to how my response was encouraging to you when I said that I’d found your approach/tone in this thread and various points you have made here to be manipulative, judgemental, preachy, arrogant, disrespectful to men and women, overly dramatic and so based on incredibly broad assumptions and judgements that I couldn’t take your “serious message” seriously.

someone specific on the forum needs to fly into a rage and aggressively defend themselves

I don’t see that anyone here has flown into a rage or aggressively defended themself.

You have brought a whole heap of sweeping generalisations and huge assumptions to this thread from the get go and you have deliberately been provocative to try to make your point. So, I think you set a challenging tone and therefore didn’t help yourself right from your opening post, if you genuinely wanted to start a respectful discussion.

You used examples of rape and Hitler but then got frustrated when people are responding to these provocative things you have said to try to make your point. You are still bringing in extreme scenarios eg around what is/isn’t rape...and I’m afraid your point (which I still say is based on huge assumptions - I don’t actually think most men - whether they have PTSD or not - do think they have a right to use a woman’s body whenever and however they feel like it) is really just lost in all that hot air and provocation.

You also started from a place of - the “men with ptsd” here need your advice. I think most people in general don’t respond too positively when given advice they haven’t sought, so it isn’t surprising to me that this has got people’s backs up. Were you hoping that people would pile in to this thread to thank you for your brilliant advice and mind-blowing insight? Because I actually think it is quite insulting to wade in from the very start, pontificating to the “men with ptsd” here about what it should be to “be a man” and advising them to think about their behaviour and to not mistreat, harm or traumatise women.

No one here is going to deny that mistreating, harming or traumatising women is wrong. So, I’m truly not sure what you are wanting from this thread. And I think that is also why you have got some backs up here - because people here know that, they don’t need you to “save them from themselves” by telling them.

When people have expressed that they haven’t appreciated your approach/tone or your implication that they are at risk of becoming monsters unless they listen to you and follow your advice - you have somehow kind of then turned that around on them to use it against them and say that they have proved your point? Which isn’t how it has looked to me at all.

"they decide to have sex when they want to". It is an option, for things to be mutually arrived at.

Yes, I meant to write something similar to this in my previous post. It is actually possible for two people to have sex because they both want to...

This is obviously an issue that you feel strongly about and that you seem to be very worried about. I wonder whether there is more to this specifically pertaining to you - or perhaps to someone you care about - and that that is what is really a challenge for you at the moment. If so, perhaps start a thread with a different approach more specifically about that? If that’s really not the case, then I’m afraid you have lost me. You seem to be saying a lot...but, at the same time, saying very little. Your idea about respecting women and not using, abusing or hurting them is just...obvious! Not really sure what you want people to say about that.

I see that you have posted in other threads here so I don’t see that you’re a troll. I don’t really see that this thread is going anywhere though...you may care very much about the notion of women being treated badly but, really, all you have done here is wind people up then, having deliberately provoked them, you somehow take their response as proof that you are right and that, “See! My advice is clearly so needed!” I think it’s a very bizarre thread, tbh.

 

[Cyberluddite]

I honestly don't think that the kind of men you are hoping to reach are also the kind of men who bo...

^^

This. So much this.:hug:

 

[barefoot]

^^^^ Yes.

Honestly @richard_Grey_Area - I think you are preaching to the converted here.

 

[richard_Grey_Area]

Hey Barefoot.
I found your response encouraging because you displayed a level or maturity which most who responded had not. Many of the subsequent posts have though, which also encourages me.
You disagreed with almost everything I said but you gave reasons other than "You're sayin' I'm a rapist!, I'm gonna break your face boi!"
I felt that you were trying to engage me and not just reacting to one or two words I wrote.
Also, I have just noticed that you are female, and when you said:

^^^^ Yes.

Honestly @richard_Grey_Area - I think you are preaching to the converted here.

that was legitimately the best news I received all year.

We're in different parts of the world and not everything is going to be the same everywhere.
If I have misjudged the nature and severity of the problem I perceived then this makes me very happy indeed.
I stand by what I have said that the attitude some men seem to show that they are somehow entitled to sex from women is problematic.
Yes, I wound people up, and yes, I looked for responses, but I feel I have succeeded in drawing attention to something relevant and important.
As I said, hearing that the problem I have perceived is not as relevant and important as I thought is encouraging.
No I don't troll and I do not intend to post more such provocative threads in future. I am also very sorry that there are people who will now refuse to consider anything I say in future because of a difference of opinion.
Feel free to explain why what I said was offensive to women (sorry guys, I was actually trying to offend you) but otherwise I am happy to end this discussion here.
I am sorry for anyone who raised valid points who I was not able to respond to, my strategy of provoking responses worked a little too well.
Thank you, I hope that there are some here who did not take this personally and think about attitudes towards "what it is to be a man" in our society.
For those of you who did, I want you to know that this was not meant as a personal attack on anyone and if you should change your mind about the not interacting with me bit, my door is open. I have a major problem with some attitudes I have seen expressed, not with people on this forum.

 

[Neverthesame]

I know I said I wasn't coming back to this, and I'm not really, this is going to way off topic.

you gave reasons other than "You're sayin' I'm a rapist!, I'm gonna break your face boi!"

I'm assuming that since no one who replied to this thread actually used either of these statements in a post.
Either you received it in a pm or you're exaggerating again.

If it's the former? I hope you reported it to the site staff.
That's not just for your safety, but the other forum users as well.

I don't want to share a forum with anyone who is going to threaten to break anyone's face, just because they are expressing an unpopular opinion.

If this has happened, please report it to the moderators using the help ticket system provided in the dropdown menu. It's not just for your sake but all of ours.

I've been on this forum for years and I'm a bit of a loudmouth who sometimes has unpopular opinions. Yet I have never been threatened on this site.

This place has been a great help to me and I want it to be a similarly great place for anyone who uses it. Irregardless of whether or not I personally agree with the things they say here.

Please help us to keep this place as a good resource for people who are struggling with a very painful disorder. The staff here are very good and caring people who will listen to you and investigate fully, irregardless of whether or not they agree with your opinions.

That's all I have to say on this.

ETA: There is also the report button on posts as well.

 

[richard_Grey_Area]

Thank you Neverthesame.
I appreciate that you shared this and yes I was exaggerating again.
I hope to avoid getting into situations where I am in danger of being threatened in future by not posting such provocative things.
As stated before, the issues I raised are issues I genuinely feel strongly about and I was trying to raise awareness, not "score points" or get attention.

I know and appreciate how this forum helps people, it has made a small change in my life and I am sorry that there are those among you who feel that things I posted here detract from this. It was not my intention to belittle the suffering of others (being a male victim of sexual violence myself, I hoped that this would come across since things I said were equally applicable to me) nor to detract from other serious issues.
As stated, I will avoid such provocative strategies in future.

Also, not that you asked but I'd like to repeat that I did not interpret what you said as a threat but rather as a strongly worded warning that I could face serious trouble if I continued on my present course. Unfortunately, I have a real problem with aggression and reactions which are often inappropriate. This and me wanting to meet opposition head on is something which has not served me well in life and it is something I am working on (not on this thread though). No, I have received genuine death threats before and I know the difference.

 

[barefoot]

I stand by what I have said that the attitude some men seem to show that they are somehow entitled to sex from women is problematic.

Yes...some men have this attitude. And some men behave badly.
I don’t think anyone here would deny that or would defend these people and their actions.

And plenty of people here have first hand experience of being on the receiving end of such people too, of course.

Feel free to explain why what I said was offensive to women

I was referring to the bit I quoted in my first post:

I would ask any female readers of this topic (including the one who just accused me of giving advice to rapists on how to emotionally manipulate women [????!!!!!*]) if I have been misinformed.

* ummmm, no my dearest, no that was in fact not what I was doing.

It struck me as rather jarring that, since the whole thrust of your post seemed to be about encouraging men to respect women, you chose to speak to a woman (you thought!) in such a patronising, disrespectul tone. “ummmm, no my dearest”? Not really cool. I wasn’t offended by it - but then, you weren’t directing it at me! I simply thought it was a disrespectful tone to take, just because someone was disagreeing with you.

(sorry guys, I was actually trying to offend you)

Not sure whether you are joking here, but you did say you were deliberately being provocative so...yeah....if you set out to provoke, wind up, “offend” or somesuch - even if you’re doing it to try to make a point about a serious issue that you genuinely care about and want others to care about - it isn’t really surprising that this thread went the way it did. You pissed people off. So they told you they were pissed off. And then you somehow twisted their understandably pissed off responses to turn things back on them and try to make them look bad.

Anyway...looks like you’ve decided not to go down the provocation route in the future, which I think will mean more shared insights and more respectful discussions (including when there are disagreements) and therefore more valuable posts/threads all round.

I have a major problem with some attitudes I have seen expressed, not with people on this forum.

Well...that’s good to know! :)

 

[joeylittle]

So, I’m truly not sure what you are wanting from this thread.

I'm not sure what you want from this thread, either...

Any thoughts on my questions in post #21?