Am I overreacting about someone calling me nuts and crazy?

[Justmehere]

She started off visibly angry that I said no to her. Red-in-the-face angry. Also my other “offense”: I said hello to her at church once, and that’s harassment, and I’m also too cold towards her at church. I’ve only seen her there once. I only go one a month, if that...

My request for no one-on-one contact was another thing she was mad about. She felt it made her look like a threat and my request for a conversation with a third party after she joined the group made her look bad. Oh how dare I treat her this way...

Bah.

I made it clear, there can not be any one-on-one contact with someone else there at this time. Not hen or now. Any texts or emails have to include someone else. She is currently blocked from everything but email.

I also made it clear, if the name calling continues, I’m out. There will be zero contact in any way.

I was asked to explain this.

I tried to say there is no explaination needed. This is my limit. The leaders still asked me to explain. Ok...

It took an hour to explain why name calling is bad. The fat shaming example was met with “oh, my family all the time, it doesn’t bother me.”

What?!?! The leaders agreed that’s bad.

I was clear... well it’s wrong, and when you do it towards me, I feel humiliated and ashamed and terrible. It’s not ok to do to me, and I’ve asked you many times to stop. It’s not ok to keep ignoring that clear boundary and when you did, that’s why I said no more contact.

I used examples from teaching children why bullying is wrong, mostly because of the leaders there. They were pretty quiet.

And because apparently everyone is at a third grade learning level on this?!?!

She went off a few times on her opinion that I need more treatment. After I said several times, please stop with the comments about my mental health, “I don’t want to hear your opinions on my mental health. It’s irrelevant. I will need to step out if you continue” - and the two leaders now tried to tell her to stop as well....

Well, the next time it happened, I walked out entirely. I was about to scream “stop it”... so ya know... it was good for me to take a break....

When I came back. She agreed to drop it. The leaders said they agreed it was wrong.

I only stayed after that because I was watching the friend/leader I trusted be very different than I expected. I would have left after 5 minutes if she hadn’t kept asking me to stay and keep trying. I stayed because frankly, I think I was trying to figure out how safe I am with her... how she was going to handle this...

We had a long conversation on gossip and what is triangulation and the dangers of it. No one in her room really even knew what triangulation was... so education time! Ugh. The two leaders were receptive. Not the name caller.

They eventually began to understand it, and all three made a commitment to actually trying to help shift that even on a large cultural level, including a personal level. I should be happy about that right?

The name calling woman did eventually agree that screaming at me was wrong and to not come around my home again. She kept saying she forgot I said no. I told her that’s not reassuring. I said it many times. She needs to remember. I ended up emailing her and the other two what will happen (security will get involved and they know to call the police) if she comes around again so that no one would forget again.

After 1.5 hours.... they were all saying this should all work great now.

I still couldn’t get a clear answer on the do I say hello or not issue... like she was sooo angry about that, it seemed important to resolve....

That was just... I don’t even know. She just said both were wrong to her. Ok then.

I tried to explain, if I try be involved in this group again, I’m not going to be able to share about my life around you as a result of this behavior. It will take considerable time and evidence of change before I risk that again. She really continued to seem baffled as to why it would be a problem. I spelled it out.... “Calling someone nuts and crazy does not invite vulnerability and connection. It pushes people away. You have pushed me away. There is now distance and pain. It has a consequence. Forgiveness or not, there is pain and distance.”

I asked.... questions they can’t answer.... How do we make this work from here? How do we move forward? How do we rebuild trust so I can feel safe in the same room with you?

The leader/friend I trusted then said she was sure that as a trauma survivor it was hard to have a clear “no” run over, and both of us are welcome in the group, and as far as how to move forward.... I’m a strong person and they are sure I can handle it.

I was done after hearing that. I think I was asking questions these women couldn’t answer.... just not enough life experience? I guess...

But I got triggered because the problem wasn’t my lack of strength, so I don’t know why that’s the solution. I was trying to be clear that it’s goong to be a very difficult task to share about my life around someone who thinks of me as nuts, and I don’t know what to do with that. I’m glad she’ll keep those comments to herself now. Doesn’t mean I’m going to be open around her. She thinks I’m crazy and has only agreed to not say it.

And to hear back, I’m strong enough to do this?

I don’t know. It just hit a nerve. I was NOW in fight or flight, reactive, and quickly grabbed my things and left saying this isn’t going to work and I’m out. They asked to stay and I said no it’s not good for me to stay and my friend that I trusted got it and helped me out the door fast. I left in tears, saying I want to move on now. This isn’t for me. I’m heartbroken. I liked being in the group. They all said we are both welcome there. Yeah, I know. And that’s fine, right? Doesn’t mean I can do it. Or that I’m weak if I can’t.

I kind of have flipped out since. Quit the group, almost everything. Not sure this is a rational choice that I want to make. I’m all fight or flight now about it.

 

[scout86]

I kind of have flipped out since.

Kind of understandable. Now might be a good time to do what ever works to engage the so called "higher centers" of your brain. It actually sounds like you did really well. (Saying that because I suspect it doesn't look that way to you, yet.)

she was sure that as a trauma survivor it was hard to have a clear “no” run over,

I'm glad to hear she's with it enough to at least recognize that. Where she goes with it sort of suggests she really doesn't understand it. She probably thinks she does, but she most likely doesn't.

I think I was asking questions these women couldn’t answer.... just not enough life experience to do that... I guess...

That's probably exactly right.

so I don’t know why that’s the solution.

Personally, I think the best solution would have been to uninvite her from the group. Apparently they didn't want to do that. What the actual solution is...... Depends on what you define the problem to be. You could continue to go, and keep your thoughts mostly to yourself. Or you could leave the group. I don't think you're going to change this person. At some point, they might get that SHE is the one who's the biggest problem and decide to do something about it. Or they might not.

Sorry all this happened!

 

[Changing4Best]

WOW. I think you handled it as well as you could have. I think you got some positive progress. As to not feeling safe to share about your life in the group now, I don't blame you. I don't know what to suggest at this point. I do hope that God has some ideas! (I am sure He does.) Waiting to see them unfold might be the hard part, but I do feel that "if you give her enough rope, she will hang herself!"

 

[Justmehere]

I don't quite know why I'm so triggered. I already asked via email for a new group and have already given up on that. I also emailed to ask they tell the group I'm not there due to lack of physical safety. Which is stupid of me to do. That would just invite drama and she did make a commitment to stop. So I already wrote to them to say nevermind. I am in error to request that.

I want to quit the whole organization. I need to wait. I'm too triggered. I felt like the scapegoat. I'm not sure if I was.

I'm very frustrated.

I mean, realistically, she agreed no more name calling, no more gossip, and no more coming to my home, and no more screaming. She doesn't entirely agree these are wrong, but she has committed to not doing them with me with witnesses. I guess I am surprised they said she's still welcome, but hey, they are all friends with each other, and there should be a high bar to being asked to leave a group like that... Not much more she could possibly do anyhow.

The other women, this is out of their depth. They did what they could.

I guess I'm angry because I can't answer the question of "how do I share about my life again around you" for myself. I'm angry a relatively safe place doesn't feel safe anymore. I'm frustrated that I feel like I have to pay the price for her stupidly. I'm frustrated it feels like anyone can do anything to me, bust through boundaries, and I should be glad and oh-so-happy when they agree to not violate boundaries. I mean. Sure. I'm glad. But uh. There is still a cost.

I am also angry about the comment about being strong enough. Yeah. She's right. I have an ability to hold thick enough walls and be so "strong" that I can be screamed at and spit upon and not react. I really have to be in the place even here in this group now too? I can go to that mental space.... but I'm not sure the point. Maybe I am now overreacting. I mean, reconciliation and re-built trust is a thing that could be possible.

I guess I'm really angry because I really don't know how to do this, and I don't think there is an answer other than just risk it and see? If I choose to do that. Right now, I don't want to choose to do that and risk it around her, and so for now, I'm losing this place of connection and friendship. I'm PISSED about that. Also. WTF. HELLO CHURCHY PEOPLE. Please get caught up on third grad level rules of how to be friends thankyouverymuch...

 

[Sideways]

This doesn’t sound like a salvagable situation.

You have an organisation that can’t understand why they need to stop one member bullying and harrassing other members. Even if it was your job to educate them (it’s not!), they clearly aren’t receptive to hearing about it, let alone taking appropriate action.

It’s actually not complicated. Harassment? Not ok.

 

[Freida]

You have an organisation that can’t understand why they need to stop one member bullying and harrassing other members. Even if it was your job to educate them (it’s not!), they clearly aren’t receptive to hearing about it, let alone taking appropriate action.

This ^^^^^^!

I wonder, is it beneficial for you to continue with this group? Not as in you need to give up and run away, but more are the people that make up the group the right people for you? Would you do better finding a group with a different focus that may be more welcoming? Possibly one not associated with a church?

 

[New]

So sorry you are going through this. This would be hard on someone without PTSD.

You have been treated really bad by this woman and I think have taken all the right steps.

If you love the group then maybe try it at least a few more times. Maybe she won’t show up once she knows you are still going. It sounded like the other group members really cared for you and didn’t want you to leave. If that’s the case then don’t.

If you go and she is there (or not) I think you will know if you should stay or move to another group.

I still wouldn’t talk to the woman alone. Unfortunately we have cut a lot of people out of our lives that are negatively impacting us.

 

[Changing4Best]

Or maybe staying in touch only with the folks from the group that were kind to you in the group (outside the church) and finding another church to go to entirely? I know this would not seem fair, as you did not do anything wrong. However, I am thinking you need a place to go to that feels safe. If this one really does not, it might be time to go "church shopping." I had to do that once. It was worth the outcome. The church I am at now IS welcoming to mentally ill folks. I have been open about it with the pastor and a few choice members who I know are NOT gossips. Very few folks know. That is how I make it feel safe for myself.

 

[Justmehere]

I’m still super spun out, and it doesn’t fit the situation. This mess is terrible but it’s not worth the level of heartbreak I feel. Something in the past got stirred up and I gotta get my brain back to 2018.

The friend/leader I trust, came over tonight to apologize.... and I couldn’t even process it. I just cried. She hugged me, (she asked first) and re-explained her words - which had a different meaning than I first understood but make more sense now. She said she hadn’t said it well, but ya know, good to hear explained.

Mostly though, I miss my family. Not sure how that pain got stirred up.

I don’t know what to do with all this. I had meetings all night tonight and they went ok. But I’m spun out over this stupid thing - I get trolled online from time to time, I was in politics (not as a candidate) and dealt with dumb stuff and safety issues without being rattled.

This silly mess... totally rattled. Weeeeird.

Everyone’s feedback is helpful to read - I’ll respond when I can get myself to be out of my lizard brain and more into my higher executive functioning realm.

 

[Justmehere]

Alright. I have my feet under me about this. Maybe? I feel like a relationship dunce lately.

It took a bit, but I realized what past trauma/current grief got stirred up. As I have begun to sit with that and seperate it out... ugh.

The friend that I really trust, who came over to apologize... It helped me chill. She was so validating and just downright humble, it kinda threw me. It reminded me why I risk trusting her. She also said that I didn't handle it as badly as I felt like I did at the end. For someone who is kinda in the middle, she is being awfully fair and kind to us both. That takes some skills and heart.

I can now recognize, while it feels like the meeting went badly, the name calling woman, she did apologize. She promised to not do it again. It didn’t last. But. The two leaders both commented on how I led the conversation. One of them said "oh you really have done a lot of work learning how to talk through conflict. I'm only just learning some of what you used. I wish I could do it as well as you did."

Uh. wow. I mean. I left in tears. They both said something along the lines of “yeah, well, people cry. It's ok. We should have ended sooner anyhow.” That was awfully nice and understanding.

I needed to hear that this is all new for them to try and learn how to handle. I mean, I can be pissed and freaked out they don't yet know how, or I can chill, and realize, they care about me, they are trying.

I ended up writing two emails to all 4 of them. I know. Email isn’t good for this stuff. One stating, I need to keep the boundary of no one on one contact, and no coming to my home, I want to make sure that's clear, documented in writing, so it's not a surprise if that's pushed and these boundaries are enforced. (She kept saying she was forgetting my boundaries. Now she has it in writing.)

The other email.... well, the other two women said it was “amazing.” I shared it with my counselor and she said the same. It basically said why I would give her a chance and it risked limited vulnerability, and what I could own and do to try to make it work. I also said email isn’t good for conflict resolution, and that’s why I’m focusing on all the good. I didn’t write a single negative thing about her on purpose, and gave her kudos for being at the meeting. I honestly wrote it half for the name caller, and half of it for my relationship with the other two women.

The group met. She was there. Gave me the cold shoulder, left early, but I didn’t give a damn. Whatever. I had fun being with everyone else. I felt really ok.

And.... today the name caller emailed all 3 of us to declare that I bullied her into meeting by stating I needed to meet or I couldn’t continue to participate in the group, and she had been planning on how she could re-break recently broken bones just to get out of the meeting. She went on with new vague critiques about my FB page (she has long been blocked so I have no clue what she is talking about! And I seriously post dog memes and other dumb stuff) and that I go from 0 to 100 with boundaries and emotions. My boundaries have been the same for over a year... She went on and on how my having PTSD is a problem for her. She went on and on about how horrible I am to be around.

What I didn’t write to any of them, but I sure wanted to write: Ok. Fine. Cool. Then don’t be around me. Can’t snap my fingers and be cured and SHUT UP already about my PTSD. I’ve taken responsibility for what is on me. No more. Deal with yourself and leave me alone. You rather break her own bones than be around me. Because that’s f*cking mentally healthy?! Seriously. I mean. Wtf?! Stop talking about my treatment while you express plans to seriously harm yourself.

I didn’t write that back...

I emailed back crisis contact info.

I added that I’m concerned for her well being. I’m not sure why she’s telling me she would have rather broken bones than be around meme, and then yet expressed anger I’m not sustaining more contact with her. “Telling me you want to break bones to avoid being around me is a good way to encourage me to stay away.”

I informed her that this is beyond what I can do. She’s blocked from all contact at this time and I hope she reaches out to others for help with her self injurous thoughts. One of the leaders called just before we were both going into a meeting and said they would handle it from here, this isn’t my fault, this isn’t about me, this is her stuff, this isn’t ok, and to take care of me and they would handle her.

This happens. People are jerks. They are in churches too. In fact, churches attract people who know they are broken and can’t fix everything themselves by the very nature of the faith itself.

It’s hard to know someone I have cared about is doing all this all the same.

 

[Deleted member 47099]

And.... today the name caller emailed all 3 of us to declare that I bullied her into meeting by stating I needed to meet or I couldn’t continue to participate in the group, and she had been planning on how she could re-break recently broken bones just to get out of the meeting.

Wow, she is seriously unhinged. I thought this right from your first post about this. She's really f*cking la-la...
Like way more la-la than all our PTSD la-la :D

Someone in this thread said "give her enough rope to hang herself" and, yeah, I agree.
Just try and stay low key. She's going to be all over the shop emotionally and verbally, I think, and if you just quitely stand by, people are going to see her behaviour for what it is.
If you engage in the behaviour, people could argue that there's some kind of "dynamic" between the two of you that's causing her to be weird.
So my advice would just be to stay as silent and neutral as possible and to watch her go round in bizarre circles and allowing everyone to see it for what it is.

As regards the meeting and the 2 church leaders, I'm really happy for you that you have gained some emotional clarity on it. I wanted to reply on the day, but didn't get around to it. From how you described it, it didn't seem to me to be "scapegoating" so much (although I understand why it felt that way!) it seemed more like a situation where 2 siblings fight and the parents didn't see what was going on and are now trying to settle the fight/ mediate the situation - there's this "general" thing of "trying to be fair" and "trying to hear both sides" and "giving both sides the benefit of the doubt".

In a situation like that, if you *are* the injured party, then that approach ^^ feels like it's way too little and like they're not "hearing" you. It feels totally frustrating and crap.

I can understand the 2 church leaders trying to take that approach, initially tho. Really, it's a common sense/ decent approach to use, especially if you feel a bit out of your depth.

I'm glad that they're now seeing more of her weird behaviour and have now clearly stated to you "don't worry about it, it's her, it's not you" and that they will "take care of it". That sounds really appropriate and now it sounds like they are really "hearing" you and not treating you both "equally" and giving both "the benefit of the doubt".

Sorry you bumped into someone who's unhinged at the moment and she clung to you in an unhealthy way and made an emotional mess for you.

Huge congratulations on having handled it so well and having used it as an opportunity for growth!

I'm sure you'll be sailing more smoothly again soon, as this upsetting situation starts to fade and become less relevant to your life.

:hug:

 

[Changing4Best]

It was me who said to give her enough rope and she'd hang herself. Mission accomplished. I am sorry she has put you through this. I am sorry for her too, she obviously does have some serious issues. I am glad the other ladies will be handling her.

Do some self care. Be good to yourself. You handled yourself very well with all this, @Justmehere.