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News American Election

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I hate discussions surrounding politics and religion; they very rarely end up being a level headed discussion with people respecting others opinions. It seems to me that religion and one of the parties is even more intertwined in America than what I have seen here in Australia.

The greatest causes of arguments are money, religion and politics. Sad really and I see rumblings here yet again around those three topics. :(
 
Yes Nicolette I learned my lesson today. No more talking about religon or politics for me ever again.
 
Anthony,
I want to clarify the Republican viewpoint of no tax hikes. Although most want to assume it means that they are trying to salvage their "rich" buddies, in fact they are not. What the Republicans have asked for FIRST is a reform of the tax codes to stop the loopholes which the Democrats have fiercely fought against. Some think that is bc Obamas best supporters, Hollywood, would be hurt by the tax reform worse than a tax hike.

We desperately need tax reform. Romney ran on that platform and believed that the loopholes should be extinguished. Sometime when you are bored, read through a current tax book. It is beyond ridiculous! It was written by special group lobbyists and corrupt politicians to do favors for their buddies. It is sickening.

If we are going to have a TRUE discussion about who is guilty of what in the United States, you must have all of the facts. The Republicans have been asking for tax reform for four years bc the tax hike will hit the middle class and small businesses to a far worse detriment than tax loophole cuts. Those will effect larger corporations far worse than middle class.

I am not an Obama fan. He follows his own form of Keynesian economics and theory but protests to be just like Clinton which he is not. Clinton had a far better understanding of the Keys theory. We are in for a bumpy few years. If you think that Obama is ok, just look at the stock market yesterday. It was off more than 300 points.

Also, I am perplexed at WHY the perception is that WE have any control over the world economics? You know, some say that the euro started the corrupt monetary values. Have you checked out LIBOR lately? The US has NO control over LIBOR or those issues. Those are all European controlled. Did we cause the economic woes in Greece? NO! Were we the only ones who sold CDS's and MBS's? NO! Europe had their hand in all of that on their own! So, I guess my point is to be very careful when throwing bricks at glass houses. I understand the importance of tHe US in the world but to unilaterally blame the stall of the economy on us is certainly warped at best. We are no more in control than you are!

Now, if you really want to stir this conversation up, let's discuss what roll China has in all of this. They own more of the US than we do!

:-)
 
This is purely my opinion, and I am going to ask whoever reads it to respect it as such, as I would respect yours.

I disagree that politics, religion, money, lifestyles, ideology or any other controversial subject should be off limits. It is important to discuss these and bring our different opinions to the table. This is the only way that people can share ideologies and if they approach it in the right manner, learn something. We don't have to agree, but I love learning where other people are coming from and why. Leave an open mind and then you can respectfully listen and learn to value opinions that are different than yours.

The world and day-to-day life is filled with different people, different ideologies, different perspectives and to effectively navigate conflict and turn it into something beneficial, learn how to discuss; not argue. Also, for a person with PTSD, it is good to find your own voice and to sort out what you believe as so many of us repeatedly say "we don't know who we are".

So with the greatest respect here goes:

@ Dallas-Where did you get your statistics? I would need to research, but I have a feeling that the majority of Americans (greater than 50% ) fall into a more moderate category, whether they be Republican or Democrat. Sure there are those that abuse the system, but the majority of people that I have met would prefer to earn a living wage rather than exist at a barely subsidence level on government handouts.

@Anyone-Explain to me how the recent changes in healthcare are specifically beneficial in application other than theory? So many have cited this is why they voted again for Obama. What were the other reasons that you felt his leadership would be beneficial?

@Anthony-Regarding tax rates and global economies, I found this an interesting link.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/global-evidence-taxes-and-economic-growth-payroll-taxes-have-no-effect

Specifically the correlation between GDP and the business tax rate. The corporate tax rate affects all business, both small and large. Thoughts?

Let's discuss and debate and not attack. Who knows, we just all might learn something.
 
I like Obama. I think he's the first president in a long time that isn't a warmongering, greedy, power hungry waste of a man.

I know here, where I live, the oil companies aren't very thrilled that he won again. Romney was their fast track for oil pipelines and money. Obama isn't going to just approve something because it makes him money, he's actually thinking about the future of the country and not just the present popularity contest.
 
In fact, history has depicted that when the middle class become too restless, the wealthy lose everything due to an uprising.
All I know is that this nation is divided sharply in half like I've never seen before. I'm surprised there are no riots right now as Anthony alluded to. Although if there was fighting, I would imagine it would be more between the conservative and liberal middle class on religious and political views, and not the poor vs wealthy. We are all poor here in the US, even those who used to be wealthy. There is tremendous fighting right now between the liberal and conservative middle class, it's just not being taken out onto the streets. You see it between "friends" on facebook and media wars (liberal and conservative news media) on TV.

Also, in about 2 days, we will be walking straight off the fiscal cliff into a depression worse than the '30s. I don't see how obama is going to do anything to fix or stop these problems. I think he's made things worse the past four years, and they're going to continue to deteriorate rapidly with him in office another four. We are doomed. :depressed:

Sincerely,
Dallas.
 
What the Republicans have asked for FIRST is a reform of the tax codes to stop the loopholes which the Democrats have fiercely fought against.
Sounds like common-sense to me... though saying that, accountancy of a country is never just simple.

Not sure if your point about Hollywood really has any relevancy, as I have seen Hollywood types supporting both candidates, thus means both have IOU's to such supporters to favour their best interests.

Which brings us back to the foundation of the real issue of US accountancy. Capitalism controls the election, thus IOU's are owed upon election, which equals actions that are not necessarily in the best interest of the people, and instead of specific rich and corporate entities. How do you think loopholes got entered in the first place? Do you really think the Republican party is going to be allowed to touch such loopholes that are based on IOU's? I doubt the Democrats would be allowed either... and you have two parties with IOU's due. One party is in, the other has blocking power in the House. People giving them millions of dollars to put them there aren't going to support them if they don't come through with prior promises to obtain such funds in the first place... which so happens to have contributed to putting them in power.

That is the fundamental loophole in US Government. Again... let capitalism go hard for the economy, but it must be removed from US Government at all levels, and instead politicians are given a set fund from the Government to advertise and market themselves. It removes nearly all corruption in one foul swoop... and that isn't being naive, that is factual based on how such principles work effectively in the majority of countries around the world already. Yes, there are some corrupt countries... but a majority who use that principle in Government have the least corruption. Politicians then use the slightest sniff of corruption against their counters to climb the ladder... thus keeping things as squeaky clean as one could keep politics.

Honestly, IMHO, it is the US political system that needs reform for budgeting to work. You can't say it has worked, because the only thing that has worked is the US has been allowed to keep growing and keep borrowing to its maximum potential, never decreasing its debt to asset ratio. Instead, power to be simply kept increasing the debt ceiling to put the issue off.

Sometime when you are bored, read through a current tax book.
I'll leave that one to the accountants. Maybe they should be grabbing 100 of the best accountants and putting them in a room to nut out the countries finances and come up with a majority workable solution!

The Republicans have been asking for tax reform for four years bc the tax hike will hit the middle class and small businesses to a far worse detriment than tax loophole cuts.
My understanding from watching US economics over the last decade, is that the Republicans also put the US in the position its in to a good degree. Both parties have blame in it, though Republicans were the ones who cut most of the red tape to create said loopholes to begin with. Please correct me if wrong... though that is my understanding from the past decade plus of economic data from the US.

I am not an Obama fan.
I'm a fan of neither of the US parties.
If you think that Obama is ok, just look at the stock market yesterday. It was off more than 300 points.
I am unsure why this is relevant, as this has nothing to do with Obama of the US election. This has to do with figures from Germany and how the EU bailouts they've been propping up all these years is now catching up with Germany. They've now gone into slow-down and economic downturn as a result, by spending all their surplus trying to rescue Greece and others.

Also, I am perplexed at WHY the perception is that WE have any control over the world economics?
You don't have control over world economics. The US is a major player within the world economy, thus what occurs in the US has a ripple effect. Just as China is now larger than the US, when China's economy is impacted the ripple spreads around the world.

We are no longer unique economies with investment. Please read my above prior post on how this works if you don't fully grasp the basics of that issue.

@Anthony-Regarding tax rates and global economies, I found this an interesting link.

http://taxfoundation.org/article/global-evidence-taxes-and-economic-growth-payroll-taxes-have-no-effect

Specifically the correlation between GDP and the business tax rate. The corporate tax rate affects all business, both small and large. Thoughts?
I honestly don't believe that piece has a great deal of weight to be perfectly honest, as the figures are firstly an average over a decade, and countries growth and decline over the past decade have been sharp at the best of times for durations longer than a year or more, thus tainting average data to use in the manner they have IMHO.

I agree that taxation doesn't grow an economy, however; what that article fails to identify is that lowering taxes to increase output and wealth, also doesn't reduce debt. It does exactly what the US fell for, being to continuously grow whilst also continuously growing foreign debt in proportion. When a problem does hit, as the GFC did... the problem is compounded by a thousand and made into such an enormous task, that some say it could simply be impossible to recover.

If you have to have five or ten years of increased taxes to slow the economy, slow growth, but obtain more funds so that the country can reduce its debt... then so be it. Hard decisions have to be made. A country cannot continue to grow year after year, which is what such documents are based upon and emphasise their theories upon. It is an illusion to believe a country can grow year after year without taking a step back every now and then to just earn some money and rid itself of debt.

It is the same at the individual level. You can't spend more than you make year after year, even though you keep getting a pay rise each year. At some point, that difference in debt is going to catch-up with you and you need to have a year or two of savings to reduce the debt... if you want to get back to spending more than you earn.

The biggest cost to the US is its military. They need to scrap a good half of it, sell the equipment to foreign countries or scrap metal... either way, for some years there are now no more maintenance costs or man hours to pay for the equipment, or being in foreign countries. Countries have to be left to fend for themselves and the US dismantle half its military, leaving what it needs for self-protection without invasion into other countries. Again... a huge saving period for the US in which such money they don't have is no longer borrowed, and the surplus is reducing foreign debt. Pump money wisely into espionage and special forces, but the rest is minimal in self-defence only, not attack. That is a huge sum of money the US would be able to use against their debt and stimulate their economy.

There is more than just loopholes and tax cuts at play... which US citizens also need to accept and come to terms with in backing whoever is in power to make those hard decisions.

I still like the idea of throwing a hundred of the best accountancy minds in a room to nut out the best possible solutions. Even they would say the defence budget is just too high. 25% of a countries income should not be spent on defence. More like around 2 - 5% maximum... that is defence versus attack.
 
Anthony,
I am pretty sure I grasp the basics of what you perceive as the issues. As a taxpayer and citizen of the US, I am pretty sure I grasp what has gone on in my own country the last decade pretty well.

As for your perception of what the Republicans are responsible for over the last decade, you might want to change your channel from CNN sometime. If you believe everything the liberal media has to say, you might be surprised to find out some real truths. Neither party is clean here however, let's start with post Reganomics and the Clinton era. The Clinton era started out fairly bumpy and ended pretty well. Clinton had issues walking across the party lines his first four years just as Obama has BUT probably his biggest debacle that set the stage for what has been the "perfect storm" was the deregulation of Fannie and Freddie. Along with creating the most liberal lending practices in the history of this country, during his tenure we created more hedge funds based on Mortgages than life insurance policies sold in 100 years. Then, we created credit default swaps that ultimately were the demise of Lehman and other such scoundrels. Credit default swaps were in essence insurance sold on the mortgage back securities that weren't ever supposed to loose value bc real estate never looses value BUT in fact, it did. When it did, the CDS's all became payable in a day... To date, they can only guesstimate a total of between 11 and 18 TRILLION dollars worth of swaps were sold. The kicker was this, based on all accounts, Washington wanted LESS regulation and decided that CDS's were NOT insurance and therefore were NOT held to the standards that other insurance companies were held to. So guess what? They did not have to set aside regulated funds to pay the swaps off in the off chance they became due. No one ever thought it would come down like this. Now, the brilliant part of Clinton was that he followed the Key's theory in that during times of abidance, he increased taxes which no one cared bc everyone was making money. Therefore, he was able to pay down the national debt while single handedly increasing household income the greatest amount in the history of our nation.

In comes the downward spiral. The scene has already been set. The world was buying trash mortgage backs and swaps and not one entity was regulating any part of a trillion dollar business. Alan Greenspan even said they were diabolical and should be regulated but by that time, it was too late. Swapping administrations only made bad, worse. Bush slides in with tax cuts and then we end up in some very expensive wars. The deficit is on the rise but unknowingly the course had been set into motion before he was even President. Not saying he handled it well, but the debacle was already deep into play and no course or action could have stopped the financial crash. In early 2007, if you were aware of trends, the writing was on the wall even though THE WORLD chose not to take action to shore up weak assets or acknowledge the issues. They kept spending, they kept floundering, and now they pretend like it was the previous administrations fault but truth is, those who have been the decision makers have made their way from wall street to Washington and know they are culpable.

This is such a larger issue than is relayed on public television and it doesn't just encompass the US. The entire world has taken part in this, and other, scandals. Hello, LIBOR scandal??? This synapse is just one occurrence of many that transpired here that also transpired on foreign soil as well. We were NOT the only ones who profited from lack of legislation, greed, and other forms of conspiracy. I didn't see the Brits upset when they were riding our coat tails in the 90's, following along happily lending money to our banking system and happily making money from our banking system. To this day, they make money on our banking system but the margins are just much less.

I am pretty sure I have an excellent grasp of what transpired during the last decade as I was in the center of it all. I could go on for 100 more paragraphs and still not describe the entire WORLD debacle and the roles each of them played in where the world economy is right now.

And, my comment about Hollywood was simply directed as a point that the million/billionaires in Hollywood have more to loose in closing the loopholes vs tax hikes bc they still have loopholes. Yes, Obama will have to pay the piper. He has a large debt to pay for this election. It will be interesting to see if his ego will allow him to cross party lines and actually find resolution in the issues. Being the narcissist he is, I find it hard to believe he will do it with ease but perhaps he will surprise me.

Please understand, I am not trying to get into a pissing contest here, but you have struck a chord bc I lived this and know the truth about how, at least, the banking/building bubble burst. I remain on a bank board and have managed to stay out of prison only bc we have always had good lending practices BUT what was acceptable 15 years ago simply is NOT acceptable today, even though 15 years ago the Government said it was ok and forced banks to do certain lending.

I still remain true to the fact that the US is not and will never be in control of where the world economy goes. We have spent almost four years talking about fiscal cliffs, debt ceilings, and downgrades ALL of which have happened and guess what, the world is still spinning on it's axis. Who to blame except the US you ask? EVERYONE! Greed is not a US problem, it is a world problem.
 
Yes, deregulation of many industries across the world seem to be a crux for concern at present. A lot of issues are arising from Governments losing red tape on key areas that impact so broadly.

Sorry... not meaning to insult... and yes, greed is an issue around the world. I believe why the US is a focal point for that, is due to the capitalist structure of the country. Lets face it... it is one of the greediest countries to live within, touting person against person basically as acceptable. No... CNN is not my only source. I do read quite a lot. The truth is never from one side though. It is usually found somewhere in the middle in my experience.

One of the interesting points is what you also raise, about other countries using US stupidity via their deregulation. They portrayed that to other countries as viable investments, thus countries did make money from it, however; the other countries didn't wittingly extort the monies from those companies that of what occurred by US CEO's and such. They didn't falsify data to keep obtaining more investment, and so forth. These are also points that should be included. Yes... many countries used their citizens money to invest across borders, but when things happen the way they did with the US, it tends to filter down to the mum and dad investor leading to the US as the cause, their policies and a few big wigs dummying data from the world until they collapsed.

It's one thing to do that with a billion dollars. Its another to do it with trillion dollar investments. The effects are two very different outcomes. The GFC started due to the US system... hence the ripples still being felt in countries around the world.
 
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