Any Practical Suggestions? Work, Exhaustion, Spontaneous Si, At The End Of My Rope

[ms spock]

I feel like that, it never leaves. Only when numb. I try to be aware of other's needs, be grateful, realize it's all part of my (boring) journey, but the constant presence of it is so not worth any of it.

Feeling that much SI for so much of the time. Is really hard. I have the same challenge.

 

[Tinyflame]

(((((((((((((MS Spock)))))))))))

 

[Abstract]

Perhaps I have to admit my limitations are different?

Do you think this is a way of avoiding or managing judgement of yourself Junebug? There are other ways to manage judgement and shame. It takes a lot of work but it can change.

I don't think it is unusual at all to struggle to change how we feel internally. I actually think it is more normal than not. Remember most of the people you are seeing talking about this have had a lot of professional help too. A lot of affirming from professionals and lot of teaching and long term practising of skills. Even then it is hard and takes a lot of time.

When you read posts saying how important it is to do our own coping it tends to be aimed at those who have big problems being trapped in a role where they want someone to save them. That can sabotage things a lot and keep them trapped. It is very understandable as a it is one of the ways people can respond when they have never had nurturance and safety as children.

Another way of responding is to have internalised states or concepts that keep us away from getting help. Often we haven't the skills to know where to get it so end up reinforcing those distortions when we do get help. It also reinforces these things if we haven't got enough safety skills first before discussing overwhelming issues or trauma or don't have the correct support when we do so.

If you mean that by accepting your limitations that you need to accept that this is the way it will remain for you and you can't be helped then I really disagree. I hope you don't mind me saying that.

How do you understand "sitting through and working through feelings" and what have you tried and how often have you tried it? For how long too?

 

[ms spock]

@Junebug Right back at you.(((((((((((((Junebug)))))))))))

 

[Tinyflame]

Do you think this is a way of avoiding or managing judgement of yourself Junebug?

I don't think it is unusual at all to struggle to change how we feel internally. I actually think it is more normal than not. Remember most of the people you are seeing talking about this have had a lot of professional help too. A lot of affirming from professionals and lot of teaching and long term practising of skills. Even then it is hard and takes a lot of time.

.. it is one of the ways people can respond when they have never had nurturance and safety as children.

Another way of responding is to have internalised states or concepts that keep us away from getting help. Often we haven't the skills to know where to get it so end up reinforcing those distortions when we do get help. It also reinforces these things if we haven't got enough safety skills first before discussing overwhelming issues or trauma or don't have the correct support when we do so.

How do you understand "sitting through and working through feelings" and what have you tried and how often have you tried it? For how long too?

Dear @Abstract , thank you, hope I am understanding this correctly as I've read it 3 times. Oye. :rolleyes: I wish I could quote each part (correctly), but have to lump it together.

No, I don't think it's avoiding or managing judgment of myself, simply for once at one level cutting myself the slack, at another calling a spade a spade.

I DO think coping and therapy-work has to be one's own. I agree perhaps others have had validation and more outside feedback or teaching. I can tell you off the top if I had I would find positive feedback somewhat circumspect from anybody being paid by me large sums of money per week. Not accurate perhaps, but I know I would doubt it.

I definitely don't look for a rescuer. As you said in the other thread anything that threatens (my) independence causes more harm than helps. As you also said, as children there are various ways to cope and stuff is internailzed, mine was through independence and self-sufficiency. It's hard to accept help. As a friend said from AlAnon who offered a ride, "just say yes".

Yes, 'coming clean' about this stuff to another takes a lot of humility, but there's a limit (or I would rather return to one) wherein I simply walk away from what is painful, or not that respectful, as in regards to day-to-day limitations. I usually blame myself, but it occurs to me I am not always out-of-bounds with my own observations or intellect. I cut others slack, or try to, but some things were it not for ptsd and the resultant disclosure, vulnerability, self-shame and blame, requests for assistance, and you might even say groveling, I would just walk away from. I feel that is in everyone's best interests. As you said, not everyone is cut out for therapy either, too.

I agree with your second-last quoted paragraph. I never knew what was going to come out of pandora's box, and I never wilfully took the lid off so much as it blew off.

My limitations are in what emotions I can tolerate, or better put what pain-level I can manage and remain functional. I accomplish a lot more through avoidance. If only I could go back to totally numb I'd be happy.

"Sitting with' the feelings would be to me to recognize them, name and acknowledge them, attempt to 'watch' them pass. (Unfortunately a bit like waiting for an oak tree laying across my back to pass, at times, or tolerating your clothes on fire. :( )

About 25 years of every self-help book and program I've been able to Abstract. CBT, DBT, self-imposed exposure therapy,12-step, AlAnon, exercise, diet, herbal medicine, volunteering, grounding, breathing, at one point journaling, Spiritual exercises, for depression, trauma, anxiety, suicidality, addiction. Everything I could try to put in to practise unless I couldn't build a tolerance. I could not do the DBT workbook exercises well, for example. I don't mean 'easily', I mean some are too painful. Affirmations as well. Do I think that's 'normal'? No. Do I think anyone else is responsible for (addressing) that? A resounding 'no' as well. And yes, it is always my responsibility to identify, and limit the negative impact it has on others, even the dog.

However, I'm no spring chicken :laugh: , what works will work, what doesn't doesn't. I guess we have to know ourselves, best we can, and our circumstances. As Venusian said in the other thread, 'no one would notice'. I realize the natural inclination is to ('hope') that is a constricted perspective, but some times it's the truth. When others can't conceptualize that's the truth, it actually feels a bit more isolating or more 'alone'. However, even that being said, it's up to ourselves then to change such things, or not.

I have to agree with the definition of insanity- doing the same thing and expecting a different result. I have tolerated a lot of what I wouldn't (or have tried over and over) in the name of 'healing', but tolerating less and avoidance and numbing out is infinitely preferable to me. In that regard perhaps it is all I am capable of to maintain a degree of quality of if not life at least required productivity. If that makes sense.

For example, funny thing today a little baby kept smiling at me, for no apparent reason. Thought he must be one of those 'happy babies'- one of my sisters was apparently like that. But no, every time he looked at me he decided to do it. For no apparent reason, and not to others or other things. But I thought, so totally genuine, inexplicable but genuine. Genuine is good. I am sure I have issues and baggage, but for a moment I didn't care, didn't have to wonder, didn't blame myself or wonder if my expectations were too high, didn't have to ground or a darn thing. It's nice. No requirement of myself, no need of others, no problem to others. Avoidance and numbing is like that for me.

 

[ms spock]

For example, funny thing today a little baby kept smiling at me, for no apparent reason... But no, every time he looked at me he decided to do it...But I thought, so totally genuine, inexplicable but genuine. Genuine is good. I am sure I have issues and baggage, but for a moment I didn't care, didn't have to wonder, didn't blame myself or wonder if my expectations were too high, didn't have to ground or a darn thing. It's nice. No requirement of myself, no need of others, no problem to others. Avoidance and numbing is like that for me.

I am confused because you had a lovely moment with the baby smiling at you and it sounded to me like you were present with the the baby smiling at you. This was a good moment.

So this was not avoidance and numbing to my mind. Are you saying that that experience is the equivalent to avoiding and numbing out as you describe it?

Surely you could have you own special Junebug Smiling Baby moment and cultivate the letting go, the not caring, not second guessing, without self recriminations, without self blame, letting go of expectations, not needing to ground - the Smiling Baby is a moment you captured where you did not put pressure or need from yourself, no need of others, no problems to others - that sounds very different to me to avoidance and numbing. It sounds like a mindful experience to me. Of course it is only logical I could possibly be reading this wrong. But do you think it is possible Junebug that you have placed limitations on yourself not knowing you have made more progress than you think. You captured the description of the Smiling Baby very well. It made me smile. I enjoyed your peace as the Baby Smiled his/her genuine moment with you.

Maybe this is a moment to notice and cherish. Maybe it is moment to work towards for a few minutes a day. You could smile at yourself in the mirror and be genuine with yourself.

 

[Tinyflame]

Dear @Ms Spock , I don't know. Well I couldn't do that last sentence, ever. But I'd call it a more-dissociated-smiling-baby moment. Maybe the opposite of present. I feel inclined and that it is better to avoid any person, place or thing that reminds me about ptsd, or anything remotely related to anyone's knowledge of me, or the past few years (disclosure), or could trigger me, or affects anyone around me through my reactions.

((((((((((((((Dear Ms Spock)))))))))))))))))

 

[Tinyflame]

I get something, is it possible it is as simple as triggers? I asked for help, or a question specifically, I have no problem with the word 'no' but heard nothing. Logically it doesn't matter at all to me. However it fills me with self-hatred and a reminder of how 'f-ed up' I still am. 'More' help asked for. But have you ever been a child, said something about what was going on, and the person (adult) said and did nothing? It felt worse than saying 'something', frankly anything. Blank stare and carry on/ pretend they didn't hear, it was worse. Plus I hear the voice (yes I know who's) "shut the 'f' up, wha wha wha". Doesn't seem to help to 'know', though.

And then somebody yesterday called me beautiful. I like the word, I think it's a nice compliment. But all it made me feel was terribly ashamed of on top of my present already my past too. Every *sshole blamed me. My 'fault', I 'made' them do it (their words).

Is this some kind of 'shame-attack', like someone called it? :(

 

[Tinyflame]

Well, dumb as it sounds I think I've figured something out.

Like you said @Abstract , it's taken many years to identify things as traumatic, even harder to accept them.

I do think it's triggers-maybe lots of them? I watch for them as they surround things I obviously avoid or will cause a panic attack. But otherwise, I guess I dont think they are there.

My huge problem, is I have no template for an age where trauma didn't exist. I also don't remember much of pre-ptsd. I don't remember much of decades. It has always seemed like a tangled ball of yarn to me, because it is. How can I possibly discriminate what is reactive compared to what is intellectual/ true? My analogy would be a person who can't tell when they are awake or dreaming, what is real? I guess I should be stopping at how I feel (for example, recognizing I want to avoid, and maybe therefore consider the possibility of the presence of triggers), instead of searching as to why I feel that way (perhaps it's not present-based?? :confused: :( )

That, and painful emotions, I can't reduce them much, but that's secondary.

I feel ashamed, I thought I was getting more mature about all this. Now I feel I'm aware I'm even less so. :(

 

[Tinyflame]

Or more so, I should have said the kind of analogy of how do you tell what is just a 'nightmare', not real, or that it's not real during a nightmare? That kind of problem, if that makes any sense whatsoever.

But avoidance would be natural, if a person (I) am trying to avoid any and all triggers, maybe some part of my mind recognizes there are triggers all over the place at the moment, even if I won't admit it. Even feeling or getting sick is a huge internal trigger of shame for me.

 

[ms spock]

I don't know. Well I couldn't do that last sentence, ever. But I'd call it a more-dissociated-smiling-baby moment. Maybe the opposite of present.

Hi Junebug,

I misunderstood.

Triggers are difficult to manage at times.

 

[Tinyflame]

Oh Dear @Ms Spock , no small wonder it could be misunderstood, I'm very poor at being able to identify or describe what I mean or how I feel at the best of times, let alone when I "don't get it". Thank you. :hug: