Article On Spectrum Of Dissociation

[Eleanor]

Muse, wow, thank you for that. I will ask my H. I am SURE he does this - he lived with gluten intolerance for.... well, I don't really know how long. I think he just "shut it down" as you said. I had a horse once who would do this with a foot of his that got badly injured as a colt. I could tell if he was hurting after a while because he would "hide" his foot from me. :(

Living with your feelings is a challenge. I'm working with that right now. My folks are here to visit :confused:. My habit around them is to just shut down, but its hard to do that with my daughter L (5).

For emotional feelings - my H dissociates less if he speaks his feelings. So we set his phone to ring an alarm twice a day for a "check in." When the alarm rings, he is supposed to "check in with himself" and then say how he feels. It helps. Not a cure all, but a good first step. Specifically he is supposed to notice how he is feeling emotionally and do a "body scan" and see how he feels physically. Sometimes he has no idea how he feels emotionally - and checking with the body seems to help with that - after he has done the body scan he can better identify how he is feeling.

Useful trick to have tho! so long as you can turn the feelings back on as easily as you turn them off.

 

[Red Feather]

Muse, Kim and Eleanor, I really want to thank you for your posts. I really would like to talk about my problems with dissociations with people. I think I have a major problem and it has effected my entire life in such a big way. The fact that this is somehow an "invisible" symptom makes me feel so powerless about it.

 

[Eleanor]

You are in the right place Nadia! you could do a search on dissociation or DID and see what threads come up here. I know there have been a number of discussions about it....

It is 'invisible' ... except when its not! My H and I figured out he had PTSD when he spent a weekend reenacting his parents' relationship just prior to their divorce (I got to play whomever he "wasn't") so that was "visible." The "ignoring" physical pain is something I KNOW he does, I didn't (until Muse wrote the thing above) put it together with the PTSD - I just figured it was a guy thing, and I kind of do it to although not with nearly the skill that Muse describes. I am quite good at ignoring physical pain. We are both working hard to try to be mindful of our feelings - emotional AND physical.

I am sorry for whatever circumstances drove you to develop this particular skill/habit:(.

 

[PTSD sufferer]

Hi Muse,

Thank you for sharing this article and your research into this important topic of dissociation disorders. I know it takes a lot of effort and patience to explore these areas in greater depth, and I am grateful that you have shared what you have discovered. Gathering knowledge is a powerful and liberating tool in my books.

Can I ask a probably basic question though, can you provide a 'simplified' description of each of the dissociative conditions, and any practical examples of what it each is like? Although I am familiar with Dissociative Amnesia, I seem to lack understanding of the others. The 'lost time' of flashback states has always been a real bug bear for me and any information towards understanding is incredibly helpful. I was also wondering about Catatonia/ Stupa related responses in terms of PTSD and Dissociation Disorders...is this considered on the spectrum somewhere? Or is this off topic?

Putting the disorder classifications to one side for a moment, I somehow feel that the connection between PTSD and Dissociation is in memory related illness space. They seem to be opposite brain response to memory. That is, PTSD bringing old memory to the fore and dissociation intermittently shutting down the memory. Clearly the psychological connection of the treatment of memory is stronger than say, Alzheimers where the brain degenerates. So, maybe the connection is in sparking of neurons to treat the memory differently...just conjecture of course.

Interested in your thoughts. PS xxoo

 

[Eleanor]

FWIW - when my H is dissociated (or even just on the verge of) he cannot assimilate new information. I can have a conversation with him (for example, we were talking about my brother coming to visit for a few days three days ago, which was a stressful day, and he had NO memory of it at all today.:rolleyes::oops::O_o:) and he won't "file" any of it. Weird.

 

[Kimpersonal]

Eleanor, I would bet his mind files "key words" of the discussion. Memory of it might still be there but hidden beneath whatever caused the initial dissociation that day??? Just a thought ... I may be offbase.

Muse? Your ability to utilize dissociation to tolerate cold, pain, discomfort ... can I just ask why you want to stop dissociating for this purpose? I do this a LOT, baby!!! LOL. :D You mentioned you did this because your child needed you and you felt a need to act fast, I am thinking. Were you able to then deal with what your child needed from you? Or were you rendered unable to because of this dissociation? Just curious.

In my case, it seems there are "degrees" of dissociativeness? Is that possible? I explained this to my boyfriend(?) a few days ago. It is like there is a trap door between dissociation and reality ... sometimes the door is open and as if I am in both places on autopilot. (This is when I can withstand much pain/discomfort and function as if no pain exists ... like delivering fedex packages up and down stairs on a badly sprained ankle?). Other times the door is closed and I'm in a la-la land that even I often cannot recall any thoughts inside of this "realm" nor outside of it ... those are the dissociations that freak me out.

My brain is set up like that old game show hosted by Monty Hall (yes, I'm showing my age here) ... the one where you win whatever is behind door #1 or door #2 or door#3. Sometimes I choose the door ... sometimes it swings open in a windstorm and I have no say. The door of flashbacks is the worst prize ... but to each his own I suppose. :whistling:

I want to do some research soon ... googling for info. about the "pineal" gland housed within our brains. I have a sneaking suspicion that this gland is operative when we dissociate. If I find anything to support my hypothesis ... I will begin a new thread maybe. This gland looks like a pine cone ... it is represented in various cultures ... like on the heads of Egyptian/Greek "mythological" or "real" gods/goddesses that have been sculptured from rock or bronze or whatever.

Maybe dissociation itself is a gift? Or was thought of as a gift by ancient ancestors? So we are told this is not right or not natural or not healthy ... maybe others are green with envy because they cannot see themselves as having the strength or ability to survive the things which we have survived??? Of course their are disadvantages ... just as it could be a disadvantage to have a long tail because modern style does not allow room for such an error!! Gucci has no fashion/designer underwear to support a tail. Yet, having a long tail would have made it much easier to climb a tall tree to escape the wrath of my violent, rampaging Mother, right? Advantages/disadvantages. Gotta weigh them for ourselves and what we want to keep or toss ... if there is even a choice.

wow ... just read what I wrote ... I AM an egghead! *snort*:roflmao:

 

[PTSD sufferer]

I've heard the term "shape-shifters" and I've even heard of people who can appear to actually disappear. They basically make you not notice that they are even there.

I have this ability with my hubby. :confused: Oh and strangers seem to cut in front of me and walk into me as if I was a ghost quite often - I am very fair skinned though (the equivalent of a tan for me is Lobster mode) but that could be my camouflage :D

 

[PTSD sufferer]

FWIW - when my H is dissociated (or even just on the verge of) he cannot assimilate new information.... he had NO memory of it at all today.:rolleyes::oops::O_o:) and he won't "file" any of it. Weird.

I see this happening when there is a lot of noise in my head and I am distracted by memories.

But, then there is a sort of Catatonic state when I have no knowledge of anything happening in my mind, or awareness of my surroundings, at one point in time - you could move my arms and legs around and they would just stay where you put them and I wouldn't have knowledge of this or be able to control this. When I 'become aware' again, I pick up the conversation from where it was left of prior to the catatonic state, but have no memory of what happened and do not believe that I disappeared at all.

So, I think there is being distracted by memories that I am either willing or not willing to process (flashbacks/ negative thought process/ any thought process really etc), that I tune out of my surroundings but still have spatial awareness - I have done this to varying degrees throughout my life. It is similar to being absent minded because you are distracted but on a larger than 'normal' scale.

Then there is psychologically induced Catatonia where there is a complete inability to create a memory and you literally loose time with no thought process to fill it. The strange thing is that these situations are in my early flashback diaries, as with flashbacks they then comes out in fragments of what happened before and after, together with minor senses (other than eyesight) like smell, sound or taste - during the state. Is this an example on the dissociation scale?

 

[Eleanor]

Thanks, you guys for talking about this in detail. I've been starting to wonder if some of the badness of my H's interactions with L is not when he is in a kind of dissociative state. Not totally "gone" but just... not quite here, with too many of the wrong inputs.

Thanks, Muse, I'll ask him about the key words thing. It would be good to know.

@Kimpersonal - as one geek to another :) delving into the world of neurology is a scary and shifting place. What we don't know about how the brain works is almost everything. (Used to be married to a brain scientist, and spent a lot of time with people who do Cog Sci) The pineal gland is a terribly old part of the brain. DesCartes (who was a mathematician primarily) hypothesized that it was where the soul connected with the body. Now you've gotten me interested in why, exactly, he might have thought that! (I'm a professional philosopher!)

Clearly PTSD is an adaptation. I knew from early on that my H was a "berserker" from his stories of his misspent youth. He goes into 'battle rage" and has super strength and doesn't feel pain or exhaustion - just like the warriors of Danish mythology. Time slows down for him then. He would be great in a war, or when under attack. It has made going to the mall at Christmastime impossible however.;) The problem, as with all adaptations is when the response happens at the wrong time - so its really really good, right up until the point where it is not. This is true of ALL adaptations. So the interesting question, for me, is how to get these tricks under voluntary control.

 

[Kimpersonal]

but that could be my camouflage :D

This could be bottled and sold as a "super-human" formula!! I would buy it!!!

The ability to become invisible instead of sticking out like a sore thumb would be a great and positive change. I do not dress eccentric or anything ... but I am eccentric inside and it must "show" somehow because I attract attention ... mostly unwanted kinds of it. I keep checking my back for the sign that says "SUCKER" or "USE ME" or "I AM A NERD ... KICK ME".

When young children hide beneath a blanket, they believe they have disappeared and nobody knows they are there. Dissociation could be viewed in that way sometimes ... though not always. The desire to dissappear where nobody can find us to cause us more pain?? Just a thought.

 

[Kimpersonal]

Finally, on a different point, I don't blame biology as a major factor for PTSD, as I see too many factors that the current science just doesn't take into consideration. Science always blames some unknown and "un-discoverable" aspect of "biology" rather than concede they just don't know. Spiritual theories don't come into it, even if they are as old as 30,000 BC. I wonder when science will admit to its shortcomings openly and agree that spiritual and intuitive knowing has it's merits, in some cases, too. Of course, this is being co-opted in "thin slicing" and has always been in metaphysics. I'm sure I don't know all there is to know on this subject, but why science can't be pure and systematic, yet still allow for the unknowns, is beyond me.

Hey there Muse! :)

If I am following the chain of thoughts in your posts on this thread ... you have an appreciation for the creative mind and the intuitive aspects of our thinking.

There is that psychological test which pinpoints personality "types" ... breaking it down into 4 categories. Perhaps someone will remember what this test is formally called??? I cannot recall the name of it ... brain is bloated and emits things I'd rather retain while keeping bits and pieces I'd rather forget, eh.

Anyway, the four categories are: Introverted vs Extroverted
iNtuitive vs Sensitive
Feeling vs Thinking
Perceptive vs Judging

So we can have numerous combinations ... I am an INFP ... scoring unusually high on the N --- intuition.
It would be interesting to know if certain personality types are more prone to the dissociative element of a disorder I think. This could not give us cause and effect, necessarily, though. Who knows how much trauma has changed the personality, right? So, the "which came first" problem would still exist. Yet, could certain personality traits be correlated to more or less dissociation in an individual? Do you know of any research done in this regard?

If not, maybe we could get a link for that test ... ask members here to take the questionnaire and share their results? I know that sounds like something we might do with a Cosmo magazine at a slumber party, in a way ... but there may be some thread of similarity we discover???

I love this thread ... Thanks!!!

 

[Red Feather]

My head keeps on spinning. I don't know where my thoughts are going with this. I just would like some clarity. One thing I just found out was there is an artist called Kim Noble who has DID. And each of her alters have a different style of painting. She seems to rattle the minds of those scientists!

I dont have different alters, but also made artworks based on my dissociative states. I made video art piece for my diploma exhibition at art school just about that. I didn't know it at the time though.

I keep on thinking there must be a bridge, there must be a bridge. I think art is the language that can combine these elements. Art doesn't have any logic to it.