Cognitive distortion about consent

[somerandomguy]

The woman was the victim of an affair that I didn’t know I was in.

You are not responsible or to blame if others' omissions led you to act in ways that you wouldn't have acted had you known the full truth. Full stop.

Because to assign blame to you in that instance would require you to be a mind reader. Full stop.

 

[Mee]

A-ha. So you werent told crucial things that, if you knew them, you wouldnt have acted at all, and because there were other parties, you blame yourself for the whole thing.

That doesn't make it on you, not having the right picture. Nor does it make you dirty. Just taken through the mud. And it hurts. And it sticked to you. And it made you question every fair skies weather you ever had. Thats not forever... nor your faulty nature. Just one mistake you were led to make that dragged on.

Yes. Yes. That’s true. I wouldn’t have acted had I known the truth.

But, A sort of consent violation manslaughter equivalent rather than murder . Accidental but damaging.

 

[somerandomguy]

Not a consent violation. A violation would have required knowledge that you didn't have.

 

[Mee]

Not a consent violation. A violation would have required knowledge that you didn't have.

I am not a mind reader.

This is true.

Hmm.

But it doesn’t make the harm not happen. I think watching the stuff like Prince Andrew stuff is making me ask more, ( though this is a daily stick I beat myself with) what is reasonable naivety, and what is rationalisation.


But I think even if I can accept I am not ‘guilty’ it’s still a consent violation.

I think consent is really a central element of this. :/. That consent is so casually treated and ‘disputed’

 

[somerandomguy]

Harm can happen without your involvement. If you had consensual sex with someone who failed to disclose they were monogamously partnered, harm occurred, but I can't imagine that any objective party would blame YOU for any harm if you were truly unaware of the partner.

Might the cheated-on partner blame you? Maybe, but they aren't an objective party.

 

[Ronin]

it’s still a consent violation.

Not by you, tho. One in which you were victim, too.

 

[Mee]

Not by you, tho. One in which you were victim, too.

She didn’t,to me, blame me. The opposite. She said it was not my fault. She also reconciled with him. ( I was one of very very many women, but one of only a few he deceived in this way)

My T not my friends all take this line and I also feel I too am a victim in this. Both things at the same time. I think this rather than the childhood stuff or the second degree sexual assault is my ptsd event. I am absolutely convinced of it in fact. Emotionally his behaviour feels VERY like childhood event behaviour; which I think is why I feel I should have known, I had the experience that I should have learned and recognised signs from. I have with others , so it concerns me I didn’t from him. And I terribly fear I am trying to rationalise things to put it down to all the things you are saying.

What signs did I miss? What- like anyone who chooses to exploit others, did I turn a blind I too that I cannot see and rationalise.

Rapist is an alarmist word. I guess I don’t mean that. In the same way as I become uncomfortable withthe idea rape is power not sex; I think some of the violations I have experienced are about sex, and selfishness.


Again; thank you for the staying power working me through this

 

[Ronin]

Well you already *had* Ptsd... don't need to be getting it anew ;) But I get interpersonal relationship stressors can feel like much worse than the BigBad bad things.

Working out how much you have responsibility is the opposite of rationalizing, i.e. accepting none at all.

Should haves aint an useful stick. Million factors you couldn't, so you couldn't, period. You're holding yourself both responsible for others behaviors... and righting it for them... also entirely preventing them from harming anyone? Commendable effort, speaks well of your character, but doesnt take away the reality these were not your choices... but theirs. Not your wrongs. Theirs. Not your deceptions and lies. Theirs.

Selfishnesh can totally be abt power, ditto anything sexualized, imo that experience and saying rape is about power and not sex (mutuality of the experience, pleasure, benefit) arent really contrary.

 

[Mee]

Ok.... that makes MUCH more sense; saying they aren’t contrary. I find the line ‘rape isn’t sex, sex isn’t rape’ as a rape victim- confusing. ?. As you referred to kink I will say some of my consensual sex was far more ‘aggressive’ than any of my non consensual sex which was all PHYSICALLY not aggravated. Well, comparatively.

 

[Ronin]

I think some words make that wee bit muddy. ;) power and force.

We're talking power here, not force. Or, inner dynamics, not physical pressure.

 

[Mee]

I think some words make that wee bit muddy. ;) power and force.

We're talking power here, not force. Or, inner dynamics, not physical pressure.

Yes. Very much so. Power is not force. It’s also how the gender/ size/ etc of a rapist isn’t really the issue; but dynamics can be. And .... sigh, information, emotional abuse.

 

[Friday]

But, A sort of consent violation manslaughter equivalent rather than murder . Accidental but damaging.

Nope.

Not manslaughter. Unwitting accomplice.

Exactly the same as if someone asks you for a ride, and then committed a crime whilst you were driving them, that you only found out about after the fact. Even if you’d known? You would still be an accessory, not the main event. But not knowing?

Makes you an unwitting accomplice.

Except? Cheating isn’t a crime, outside of places like Iran. But you’re beating yourself up like it IS a crime. Breaking your own moral code -unwitting or no- can be far more devastating than breaking the highest laws of the land, if they aren’t part of your code. I’m not minimizing that aspect of it. I AM hoping to point out that the standards you’re applying to yourself? Are very much in line with laws in dictatorial regimes notorious for the flagrant abuse of human rights. When that’s the standard you’ve set for yourself? You might want to re-examine it.

If it helps? Try applying it to other people. Both the censure you’re applying to yourself, and the leniency you’re applying to the person/people who were actually involved. IE Breaking your vows, betraying the people you love, and deceiving others? Is just the same as being lied to? O_o Does that parse? It doesn’t, right? But that’s what you’re doing. And it’s also why “unwitting accomplice” exists. Because some people are such manipulative lying bastards that they rope other people into their transgressions by way of deception.

Emotionally his behaviour feels VERY like childhood event behaviour

And you’re blaming yourself for the actions of others. Like a child blaming themselves for being abused.

Both things at the same time. I think this rather than the childhood stuff or the second degree sexual assault is my ptsd event.

One of the quirky things about PTSD is that it’s NOT a pain scale. It often feels like it should be, that the things that hurt the worst should be ranked higher. But it’s not. And many of the most painful things in life? Aren’t capital T trauma. (It can be kind of brain-breaking to reeeeally wrap your head around that one). But what’s magic about doing so? When you already have PTSD, especially if you can feel the echos from earlier traumas, in this incredibly painful thing you want to rate “higher”? Is that it shatters a specific kind of avoidance, like breaking a one way mirror, and lets you see some/all of the pieces that tie to your trauma. Big bad juju things that have their claws in you so deep that you can’t even see this event for what it is, because it’s so tied TO your trauma.

If you can write a list of all the things THIS event is bringing up? Like power, force, guilt, not knowing any better, being used, fear of hurting others, sex, love, relationships, blameshifting, et cetera. (That’s not even a complete list, just from reading, your complete list will be waaaaaay longer)... you’ve just gotten a skeleton key (Told ya! Magic! :D) for dealing with your original trauma. In a way that still lets you keep your distance from your original trauma, and come at it with your T via those points of connection.