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Colorful and hopefully optimistic but maybe hateful occasionally

We don't need to put them first to show them how it's done, they already know, they simply weren't capable of it.
I just want to say - I am *not* excusing anything anyone's done here... But as a mental-health-challenged-dysfunctional-but-loving-mom I wanted to say... We don't always know these things. I can't even begin to imagine what putting myself first looks like, lol, so please don't assume that a parent knows anything or whatever. People do get trapped in their mess - when you've been living with a mental health disorder for a long time without any therapy, it's exactly like living in that hoarder house. You're trapped by piles of mess squeezing through the little paths you've made for yourself, telling yourself it's OK - and at the same time, hating it, but not knowing what to do. I'm finally *finally* aware of all the giant piles of crap in my brain. And OH I wish I could hire a cleaning service to come in and clean it all up for me, haha, but all I can do is pick up a mess at a time and try not to get overwhelmed. Denial is a real thing and it's not conscious or deliberate. I wish your mom *could* get some therapy. Like a lot of therapy. She sounds like she at least has good intentions and doesn't consciously want to be unhappy, which would help her a lot. But - she is an adult, and it's not your responsibility to save her. This is one of those things that people just have to do for themselves. :hug:
Also - I hate getting the silent treatment. It's a trigger for me, as I was ignored a lot as a kid. And silent treatment feels like being ignored.
:hug: you're working so hard to deal with all this stuff - and it really will be healthier for you once you find another place. Physically and emotionally. :hug:
 
Yeah I wasn't actually referring to the hoarding, I was using to illustrate what years of untreated mental health issues feels like is all. Again - not excusing anything, just saying - it is possible to not know because your brain has it shut off. I'm not saying it's good or right - I'm just saying it's not like someone deliberately covering their eyes and saying 'I can't see!'. I'm sure people do that - but some people just.... can't see and have no idea that it's because their eyes are closed.
 
I know that, as a child of two mentally ill parents in an abuser/enabler dynamic, my parents knew what they were doing. Excuses, justifications, "what should be right" was blantatly all over the place, but it just proved that they couldn't move past themselves, not that they couldn't see what was in front of them.

I've been dealing for years with all sorts of mental illnesses, helping people and whatnot, I've met pretty horrible people and I've met clueless people too, not one of them lost the ability -ever- to distinguish right from wrong in their actions. The pretty horrible people chose to deliberatly inflict harm, the clueless people chose to hide behind the cluelessness.

We don't excuse anyone here who comes here and says "I'm mentally ill and I've enabled abuse/I abused and it's fine because I didn't know!", do we? Why should we do it here?

This is not a criticism to you, TTC. I think you're an excellent mom who did everything to protect her children - even if not perfect since no parents are perfect. But this here with littleoc's mom is a whole other level, and I truly don't think she's that clueless. As I know my own mother is not clueless. Our anger comes from that knowledge - "If you know, why don't you do anything?"
 
I'm just saying - we can't know what's in someone else's head or heart. I don't know if MY mom was clueless. I don't know if littleoc's mom is clueless. I *do* know that despite all my well-meaning momness, I have been clueless for my whole life. I'm working on myself now, but for the whole rest of my adult life I had my head up my rear. I can say that I genuinely wanted to be a good mom, and I did LOTS of stuff to try to be a good mom - but I also did lots of dysfunctional stuff without realizing it. Not shutting my eyes to it, but genuinely not realizing it. That's all I'm trying to say. People can genuinely not even know what they're doing. Trust me, I am the queen of self-blame, and if I could pin 'deliberately shut my eyes to my own dysfunction for all those years!!' on myself, I'd do it. But even I know that I didn't do that on purpose. I just didn't see/know/realize. So instead I pin 'how could I be so stupid as to not notice my own dysfunction all those years' on myself.?
 
I want to lean that direction. But this cat is REALLY attached to my mom.
Hmm, would taking Slinky on a trial basis be possible? Or conversely leaving her on a trial basis to see how it goes?

Omg, I could watching video of starfish strolling along on their little foot thingys all day. <3

when you've been living with a mental health disorder for a long time without any therapy, it's exactly like living in that hoarder house. You're trapped by piles of mess squeezing through the little paths you've made for yourself, telling yourself it's OK - and at the same time, hating it, but not knowing what to do.
The whole other conversation aside, I thought this was a great analogy. It makes a lot of personal sense to me.
 
Took a deep breath. Began to drive more carefully. Avoided another flashback to something else. Took a deep breath. Told her, “I’m sorry I offended you. I didn’t mean to be offensive. I just really want to say that every single one of us has, at this point, gone way out of our way to help you fix the house. It really hurts to hear you say that it’s not enough.”
Very proud of you for pulling over and taking a moment to regroup!
“Just to let you know, I am going to bring a lisenced service dog to the interview. She’s covered by the ADA.
Please don't say licensed. There is no ADA requirement for licensing and it's becoming really confusing for people because the Pets in Vest crowd uses that word to try to keep people from questioning them.

And y'know, I've rethought the email thing. I think I'd just show up -- and say oh yea, have a service dog.

Bitch, you want my little brother dead? He should just comply with getting bitch slapped? You should just comply with getting raped all the time? Um, no.
Sick of it. No one else treats me like that. Ever. If they do they’re f*cking out of my life. I do not have to live with a psychopath and I don’t have to fix this stupid f*cking house.
I do not hate myself. I do not hate myself. I was just angry. It was probably a good thing I said something. This house has been ignored for too long. It is insane.
YES!!!! GOOD GIRL!!!! You are finally seeing your own value! This isn't about being angry. This is about realizing that you will NOT be treated like this anymore and you are standing up for yourself!! So very very proud of you!!!
"I want to help he but she doesn't cooperate" is you letting your boundaries down and allowing her to take over your life.
My immediate thought was, "What, is she taking her mom with her when she leaves? Hell no." So, I swear I'll fly to the US and not allow that to happen.
me too!

I had to run this gauntlet with my brother and it took some serious counseling to figure out the difference between enabling and boundaries. I finally got it thru my thick head that I was not helping him by trying to fix things. He is an adult and has to be allowed to live his life as he pleases -- even when it is so totally dysfunctional it makes me want to cry. I'm guessing you may need to get to that place.

Have you ever looked at www.nami.org ? They have some excellent resources for family members of the mentally ill. Everything from education to support groups. T
 
We have a really cool endemic reptile called the Tuatara. Apparently it was around (as Tuatara) when the dinosaurs were on Earth.
They do look like tiny dinossaurs :)
So I have a dinosaur question for you both, that occasionally doesn't let my nerd brain sleep at night... :laugh:

Ya know how in ye olden times, people would tell each other fairytales and stories about dragons?

And then *centuries* later, scientists dig up dinosaur bones, reconstruct how they must have looked, and voila: real live dragons.

So.....................

How did people's brains (subconscious?) in ye olden times know that dinosaurs once roamed the planet???

(Well, that's not *quite* a logical argument, but you get my point :laugh: )

I mean, that's *weird* right?
 

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