Comparing Rape To Being Cheated On

[Pencil]

I hope someone can get back up on this horse again.

 

[shoulderblades]

Like some people have already discussed here: issues intersect and make things very complex. Rape and cheating can and does intersect in many people's lives, in many different ways.

I think if you are already a victim of trauma, things like being cheated on or betrayed (in any fashion) are going to be much, much harder to deal with than someone who hasn't been a victim of trauma. Trauma is, after all, often (often, not always) about betrayal. Betrayal of trust, betrayal of safety, betrayal of human rights, to name just a few. Many of us here are struggling to get through day-to-day life because of betrayals of that ilk. And so on that level, rape and cheating cannot be compared, as they are both a form of betrayal.

There is no one size fits all when it comes to mental health and dealing with difficult, very subjective issues like trauma. On a reductionist level - no, rape and being cheated on can't be compared. But reductionism is a very dangerous and damaging stance to take when it comes to the integrity of others.

 

[Hashi]

I was more affected by my mother's words than by the event itself. The reason is that I felt deeply betrayed by my mother (which happened so often that I find it odd that it still affected me).

Pencil, from what you say here it sounds like perhaps you had emotional abuse in your childhood, and it was not one act of betrayal by your mother at that age that affected you so deeply, but the betrayal as a continuum of past trauma? If that was the case you would not have been affected by that single incident of betrayal in isolation, but could be looking at childhood trauma.

Perhaps for people who have been cheated on and consider it traumatic, that has happened against a background of some level of abuse in the relationship, and therefore it isn't the act of cheating on its own that is affecting them, although that's how they're seeing it. Some people can't even recognise relationship abuse, but are forced to recognise cheating so that's what they're focussing on. I'm not saying that's true of people in this thread, it's a general point.

shoulderblades, is that what you're referring to? I'm afraid I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. If I've understood correctly, I still don't think it affects the issues of whether cheating can be compared to rape. If you're saying cheating following past abuse or following a history of abuse from other people (of a type which would be classified as trauma) can be compared, then firstly you're talking about trauma and not cheating in isolation. Secondly, I still think comparison of different things is meaningless.

I feel like the topic has come full circle. I feel like we're right back to needing to look at the DSM definition of trauma, and that cheating and other betrayals, however devastating in their own right, are not a trauma in the sense of possibly causing PTSD. I feel like the issue has been confused with other things which are traumas, and it needs to be separated out again. I'm not even sure what reductionism is, probably what I'm suggesting, but if you don't draw a line then how can you ever make a diagnosis?

For me, saying that it's connected to other things doesn't mean the question is less clear, it makes it clearer. If it's connected to trauma, then that could make it an overall traumatic experience. In itself, it's not a trauma. I see no validity in comparing it to a different type of experience, especially not as a way to classify it as a trauma - which I feel is what Core was describing about the other discussion. (I want to repeat - I'm not saying being cheated on is not devastating, I'm talking about the definition of trauma, and making comparisons.)

 

[Pencil]

Hashi, always the voice of reason. I like your post very much.

I've also been thinking about this a lot, and sort of came to the same conclusion, in a less eloquent way, that perhaps cheating in some cases triggers old abandonment and betrayal trauma - and this could lead to ptsd, and NOT the cheating in itself. It might be the straw that breaks the camel's back, and we have all read stories to that effect on this forum - Cake who sprained her ankle is one example - of where one seemingly silly event sets off the whole thing. And therefore we find people committing murder, or suicide, when a partner 'cheats'. The word still bothers me, it makes the issue and potential injury so ... I don't know, can't find the word.

For yes, my mother's 'incompetence' at that moment had a massive history of neglect, serious physical abuse, betrayal, blah blah.

 

[Hashi]

Pencil, I have been worrying very much that what I said was inappropriate. Thank you for being so magnanimous in the way you read it.

I'm sorry for everything you've been through.

 

[Abstract]

I think discussions such as these are a bit like quicksand and whichever way one steps it feels like it sucks one in further and you feel more in trouble.:wideeyed: I have felt like that no matter what I think of saying. So many people on here have said important things that are relevant in their own way.

I suspect what makes this topic so loaded and difficult is that so many people have invalidation injuries whether they have PTSD or have experinced other abusive or difficult situations. I also think it is easy to fall into black or white thinking and so if something is not big T trauma or PTSD then it isn't important at all (for those who are in that situation). Thats what makes me so uncomfortable when I see mentioned on this site that people falsely diagnose PTSD just to make money. It is not only those with PTSD that need therapy at all! There are mass of other conditions or experiences that are helped by therapy and many of them take a long time to treat.

So really saying something wasn't traumatic in the true psychological definition of trauma (where it has been stored in the limbic system and there is no narrative for it) does not mean that it wasn't devastating and did not have long term serious affects on the person. It is not invalidating it at all. And I guess that again comes back to other psychologist speak and little t trauma. Little t trauma is not less important but it is different. It changes the way we look at ourselves and our self belief and our view of the world. I suspect that little t trauma adds a lot to what fills out some of so called Complex PTSD "extras".

But then I think a bit and consider that there would maybe be situations where certain things could be traumatic in a PTSD sense and not generally be considered big T criteria. Lets say someone was confined to a wheel chair and they had a learning disorder and have a history of long term neglect and abuse and as a result had no good coping skills or self esteem. And that they felt they relied on the person for their livelihood and that of their children. Maybe just maybe I could see a way that there could be the perfect storm. I would be open to hearing it. Who knows! They may even have things in their pasts that they don't remember.

So called little t traumas causes havoc in peoples lives and much disorder even though they not PTSD type trauma and that maybe should be OK and people should not feel invalidated if it is not classed as Big T trauma. I think trauma in a PTSD sense (where the experience has no narrative and is stored in the amygdala) is a bit like the brain blowing a fuse. Other things can fry the circuitry but this type of trauma is so intense and sudden it melts it completely. And thats where the re experiencing comes in. Because a lot of other PTSD symptoms belong to an enormous amount of other disorders too and it is the re experiencing that makes it different and makes it trauma in the true psychological definition of the word.

Really trauma in that sense (psychology speak) is not the same as big T trauma as experiencing big T trauma does not automatically mean we are traumatised in the true sense. I certainly have experienced things that would qualify that did not traumatise me even though they were very upsetting. And thats when we come around full circle again and look at meaning and betrayal and cruelty and more. :wacky:

I still can't properly understand why what happens before and after a terrible experience can make such a difference to whether we end up traumatised or not. There has to be clues to the whole thing in there somewhere. And I do truly strongly believe that the before and after is supremely important and that the persons coping skills in general are part of the before.

So really at the end I just don't know. I think all of these things although some of them are contradictory.

 

[Abstract]

Pencil you are very brave to share about your experience. I am so very sorry that the little girl you was so hurt and betrayed in that way. And sorry that you did not have the nurturing and supportive environment you deserved and needed. That we all do after trauma.

I think your thoughts about betrayal are interesting. And maybe that ties into why there are much higher levels of PTSd from interpersonal violence. There is something about betrayal that is shattering in many ways. I am very sorry about your mother and relate in certain ways. I have also seen people say similar things again again. That the invalidation and lack of protection from their parent was in some respects worse.

And I do think both you and Hashi have hit on an important point that many things become entangled with trauma and become a a part of it.

I also want to say not to minimise what you went through. Just because you did not fear for your life does not change its traumatic nature. Rape threatens our existence and self in a way that is life changing. Sometimes it's lack of violence can make it difficult in a different way as it can feel less clear in someone's mind.

 

[The Albatross]

I'm not sure I buy the whole "big T traumas and little T traumas" thing.

I call cheating adversity, and rape trauma. But to be sure, to have a discussion, people have to agree on "language" or symantics.

 

[Abstract]

Abatross, I think big T and little t trauma (as I understand it) is just a general psychophysical speak and it does not mean that so called little t trauma is considered trauma in a PTSD sense.

PS.
I also wanted to add that with some things it is obvious why the circuit is blown/melted by the experience. Death or certain types of pain or torture. But then again humiliation, shame, betrayal and affects on personal beliefs seems to make it more likely that one is traumatised. Then it starts getting more complicated.

 

[The Albatross]

I don't agree, I was writing this as we cross posted (thus the edit). It is uniquely perceptual and based on language

Example: I had a coworker, Clyde (his real name) tell us to go look at his new blue truck in the parking lot. On break I went out with a couple other people and in the parking lot couldn't find a blue truck. Asked him again, and he said, yeah, it's out there it's blue and it's in the third row, the stickers from the dealer are still on the window.

I went out there again at lunchitme, and there in the 3rd row was a plum purple Ford pick up with the dealer stickers in the window. I went back in, and told Clyde, "Found your truck, it's nice, but it's not blue it's purple". And he replied to me, " Are you sure???" Hilarity ensued as about 8 more people went out to the parking lot and assurred Clyde that his beautiful blue truck was indeed plum purple. It even said so on the sticker from the dealer.

He replied, " Oh yeah. I forgot. I am color blind. But it is blue to me. It is the most beautiful blue I have ever seen."

Problem being... it WAS NOT blue. It was purple reguardless of the way it appeared to him.

 

[The Albatross]

No matter what Clyde saw the truck was not blue. It was purple. But I suppose we are in a grey area. I will not and do not though agree that a crime of violence: rape, and cheating are either equivilent or "a big Ttrauma / little T trauma". But hey, my truck may be purple. ;)

 

[Abstract]

I think we agree again but I am not sure how that relates to the terms little t and big t trauma as they are factual psychological terms that are clearly defined. Open to hearing though!