Friday
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This came up in chat tonight... @Nighthawk posted the link to where some of the available certs/registering can be found.
http://www.servicedogsregistry.org
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Dealing With The Eeoc
- Post starter desiderata310
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This came up in chat tonight... @Nighthawk posted the link to where some of the available certs/registering can be found.
http://www.servicedogsregistry.org
@FridayJones the problem is they have no legal bearing. It's great for the people taking your money to 'register' your dog and if they give you an ID it looks all official and it gives you something to flash at people giving you trouble. But that also creates a problem because then that establishment expects the next team to have some form of ID.
Ultimately you'd be just as well off getting a badge custom made at a print shop. It does as much good.
The only real certification unless you're with an accredited program is how well your dog is trained to do its tasks, the temperament and the level of public access ability.
Ultimately you'd be just as well off getting a badge custom made at a print shop. It does as much good.
The only real certification unless you're with an accredited program is how well your dog is trained to do its tasks, the temperament and the level of public access ability.
scout86
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I'll second that!
I'm struggling a little with the idea of a "dog free campus" too. Is there a fence to keep out strays? No dog walking allowed on the sidewalks? It has kind of an "unfriendly" sound to it!
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desiderata310
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@Kefira Exactly...
The best thing I was told to do was to pass the Canine Good Citizenship test and make sure he can perform his service tasks. He certainly has the temperament for working in public.
The trainer I am.. was.. working with suggested that I register with that site for the same reason: you get an ID (I have to take the picture and send it to them) and some documentation ... but any goom-bah can go on the site and "register" their dog. I actually expect my dog to behave in a certain manner and do the tasks he is being trained to do.
Some people just think it's "fun" to be able to take their dog anywhere with them. Boy Heidi, let me tell you! Taking a dog with you everywhere is a bit like taking a toddler with you everywhere. It's NOT fun. It's work for BOTH of you. (especially since mine is in training). Anyone who thinks that they want to take pet fido out grocery shopping and on all their errands for the day has not thought this through.
So... going a little far afield from the original topic here but...
All that said, it's WORTH it for me. The benefits are incredible. Char is learning to be very attentive to my emotional state. He's beginning to do things I haven't been training him to do. A couple of days ago we went to Target to work on his 'public access' stuff. Essentially, walking around, making sure he's in a good heel, that his attention is on me, that he's not snuffling at merchandise. If I stop to look at something that he isn't pulling or trying to wander off but rather sitting/standing/lying next to me while I 'shop'.I'm trying to teach him "watch my back" because it's almost impossible for me to look at a rack of ANYTHING for very long without feeling very vulnerable and having to stop and check to see if my ex is behind me. I have to be in a REALLY good place to do this work with him. It's exhausting. There's tons of small things I have to correct as we go through the store and I can tell if he's tensing up because of a little kid coming at us and that the interaction could be bad... etc etc etc..
This particular time, I went in without headphones (bad idea) and heard all the comments- good and bad about Char and me. People are stupid. They say awful hurtful things when they think you aren't paying attention. I managed to hold it together but once I was in the car I broke down into a puddle- the stress of working with him so intensely, the noise, the crowd, the little screaming children, and the rude comments made not to me but in my vicinity-.. whew. I guess I was ... triggered? highly stressed in any case. When I got in the car and I started bawling,(it took me by surprise) Char very quietly stopped sniffing out the windows, put his head on my shoulder (he was in the back seat) and would occasionally lick my ear/cheek till I started to pet him and could dial it back and calm down. Pretty much EXACTLY what I would need him to do if I were in a flashback/triggered.. He doesn't KNOW what's wrong and I cry just the same if I am triggered and headed for or in a flashback. So... yeah.. I'd say he's learning his task pretty damn well without me really having to do a lot of training in that realm.
The best thing I was told to do was to pass the Canine Good Citizenship test and make sure he can perform his service tasks. He certainly has the temperament for working in public.
The trainer I am.. was.. working with suggested that I register with that site for the same reason: you get an ID (I have to take the picture and send it to them) and some documentation ... but any goom-bah can go on the site and "register" their dog. I actually expect my dog to behave in a certain manner and do the tasks he is being trained to do.
Some people just think it's "fun" to be able to take their dog anywhere with them. Boy Heidi, let me tell you! Taking a dog with you everywhere is a bit like taking a toddler with you everywhere. It's NOT fun. It's work for BOTH of you. (especially since mine is in training). Anyone who thinks that they want to take pet fido out grocery shopping and on all their errands for the day has not thought this through.
So... going a little far afield from the original topic here but...
All that said, it's WORTH it for me. The benefits are incredible. Char is learning to be very attentive to my emotional state. He's beginning to do things I haven't been training him to do. A couple of days ago we went to Target to work on his 'public access' stuff. Essentially, walking around, making sure he's in a good heel, that his attention is on me, that he's not snuffling at merchandise. If I stop to look at something that he isn't pulling or trying to wander off but rather sitting/standing/lying next to me while I 'shop'.I'm trying to teach him "watch my back" because it's almost impossible for me to look at a rack of ANYTHING for very long without feeling very vulnerable and having to stop and check to see if my ex is behind me. I have to be in a REALLY good place to do this work with him. It's exhausting. There's tons of small things I have to correct as we go through the store and I can tell if he's tensing up because of a little kid coming at us and that the interaction could be bad... etc etc etc..
This particular time, I went in without headphones (bad idea) and heard all the comments- good and bad about Char and me. People are stupid. They say awful hurtful things when they think you aren't paying attention. I managed to hold it together but once I was in the car I broke down into a puddle- the stress of working with him so intensely, the noise, the crowd, the little screaming children, and the rude comments made not to me but in my vicinity-.. whew. I guess I was ... triggered? highly stressed in any case. When I got in the car and I started bawling,(it took me by surprise) Char very quietly stopped sniffing out the windows, put his head on my shoulder (he was in the back seat) and would occasionally lick my ear/cheek till I started to pet him and could dial it back and calm down. Pretty much EXACTLY what I would need him to do if I were in a flashback/triggered.. He doesn't KNOW what's wrong and I cry just the same if I am triggered and headed for or in a flashback. So... yeah.. I'd say he's learning his task pretty damn well without me really having to do a lot of training in that realm.
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desiderata310
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I was a little surprised by that as well.There are students all over campus who service dogs with them going to class year round. I actually saw one girl this spring who has a dog that is still very much a puppy with a giant "Service Dog in Training" vest. He's probably a 6 month old lab. I watched her go to classes, the library, the bookstore, and over to get food in the UU. Pretty sure she lives on campus. No one said Boo to her.
One of the guys who works for me said that he thought the EEOC lady had her head up her "fifth point of contact"
heh.
Friday
Sponsor
ETA... Sorry in advance for the length. I can't seem to make anything short today :/
Yep... That's my whole understanding of registering & carrying the registration paperwork, ID, an ADA card... That since there is no official thing, except that it's required by law, that it gives something for officious busy-bodies to shove up their ass before they think they have the right to start going into your legally protected medical history.
We did something similar with homeschooling. You could have the HSLDA print out IDs and documents for you... Or you could template it up yourself and laminate at the copy store.
It's a quirky loophole in certain laws (like service animals & homeschool kids & a whole lot of medical laws... Which are in theory written to protect your privacy, but in practice give these morons an inch of power they squeeze miles out of) where you can be doing everything completely legally... But without certs & IDs? Petty power tripping pukes make everything as impossible as they can.
(( Hell, HS'ing we even had to create otherwise completely useless/meaningless numbers on the IDs, because there was a "blank" in whatever form that pencil-necked nincompoop had to impute or they'd outright refuse to do it. And then look all condescending and "explain" why homeschool didn't qualify. Except it did. Under the law. Even under their own policy... Which I could bring in (or even have with me!) and argue, while they just got smugger and more intractable. Head home, spend 2 minutes editing a "teacher employee number" into my ID, however? 10 minutes getting it laminated? Stamp! Whirr! Bing! Here you go, Miss! Your son is all nice and registered now! :rolleyes: ))
The trick, IME, is give brainless bureaucrats absolutely no explanation or chance to argue. "Oh! We need XYZ..." I used to meet with "Oh! We homeschool..." Nope. That just lets them tell me homeschooling doesn't count, when I knew durn well it did both legally and in their own policy -just on a different page than the one their myopic brain was used to dealing with-, or let them get all officious and try and start quizzing me as to what curriculum we used, and my son's blah blah blah blah... As if *they* were the ones who got to determine if I was doing things legally, and to what standard, instead of the State.
I've made the mistake of trying to answer all their questions, there's no law against their asking them -because there is also no need on gods green earth FOR them to ask them!- and essentially wound up in tears in my car after begging for something that is legally required for them to give, after being denied. Lesson learned!
When an idiot wants a piece of paper? I go home & print out a piece of paper :p Saves a hell of a lot of time & hassle.
Yep... That's my whole understanding of registering & carrying the registration paperwork, ID, an ADA card... That since there is no official thing, except that it's required by law, that it gives something for officious busy-bodies to shove up their ass before they think they have the right to start going into your legally protected medical history.
We did something similar with homeschooling. You could have the HSLDA print out IDs and documents for you... Or you could template it up yourself and laminate at the copy store.
It's a quirky loophole in certain laws (like service animals & homeschool kids & a whole lot of medical laws... Which are in theory written to protect your privacy, but in practice give these morons an inch of power they squeeze miles out of) where you can be doing everything completely legally... But without certs & IDs? Petty power tripping pukes make everything as impossible as they can.
(( Hell, HS'ing we even had to create otherwise completely useless/meaningless numbers on the IDs, because there was a "blank" in whatever form that pencil-necked nincompoop had to impute or they'd outright refuse to do it. And then look all condescending and "explain" why homeschool didn't qualify. Except it did. Under the law. Even under their own policy... Which I could bring in (or even have with me!) and argue, while they just got smugger and more intractable. Head home, spend 2 minutes editing a "teacher employee number" into my ID, however? 10 minutes getting it laminated? Stamp! Whirr! Bing! Here you go, Miss! Your son is all nice and registered now! :rolleyes: ))
The trick, IME, is give brainless bureaucrats absolutely no explanation or chance to argue. "Oh! We need XYZ..." I used to meet with "Oh! We homeschool..." Nope. That just lets them tell me homeschooling doesn't count, when I knew durn well it did both legally and in their own policy -just on a different page than the one their myopic brain was used to dealing with-, or let them get all officious and try and start quizzing me as to what curriculum we used, and my son's blah blah blah blah... As if *they* were the ones who got to determine if I was doing things legally, and to what standard, instead of the State.
I've made the mistake of trying to answer all their questions, there's no law against their asking them -because there is also no need on gods green earth FOR them to ask them!- and essentially wound up in tears in my car after begging for something that is legally required for them to give, after being denied. Lesson learned!
When an idiot wants a piece of paper? I go home & print out a piece of paper :p Saves a hell of a lot of time & hassle.
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joeylittle
Sponsor
California, where @desiderata310 is, is pretty specific about not recognizing or requiring any certificate of any kind. In other words, it's actually not legal for a representative of the law to even weigh them. I think that would be the reason to call a campus "dog-free" - since they cannot make a judgement on what is required for a dog to be a service dog, if they want a boundary line they need to put one in place on the other end - which is to say, "no dogs" and then hope that the population self-selects in terms of what they actually use their dog for.
The assumption being that most people, if they know their dog is really a pet, would just see that rule ("no dogs") and not go looking for accommodations - that only people who know they need accommodations would take their right to them.
The assumption being that most people, if they know their dog is really a pet, would just see that rule ("no dogs") and not go looking for accommodations - that only people who know they need accommodations would take their right to them.
This is my favorite.
@FridayJones That's the problem: there is NO requirement legally. The requirements are that the handler is disabled under the ADA definition of a disability, and the dog performs tasks to mitigate that disability. End stop. There is no legal requirement for any sort of ID, card, papers, doctors orders (with a possible exception on that last point for commercial aircraft depending on what type of service dog). There aren't even laws about the dog being in vest or otherwise identified. There are just organizations that like to take advantage of the fact that owner trainers and the general public often assume that some sort of registration, certification or ID must be necessary. It's not the case.
@joeylittle Legally speaking it's taken care of because the dog is not considered a pet and its protections are not based on it being an animal. SDs are considered a medical device under the law, which means that if someone doesn't have to surrender their walker when they go into a space (with a few limited exceptions of places of worship and sterile environments) your dog is allowed. Because they are a medical assistance device. Under the law they are not a dog. I like using that one when people get aggressive with me. Normally confuses them :).
@joeylittle Legally speaking it's taken care of because the dog is not considered a pet and its protections are not based on it being an animal. SDs are considered a medical device under the law, which means that if someone doesn't have to surrender their walker when they go into a space (with a few limited exceptions of places of worship and sterile environments) your dog is allowed. Because they are a medical assistance device. Under the law they are not a dog. I like using that one when people get aggressive with me. Normally confuses them :).
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desiderata310
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@FridayJones I actually understand that struggle quite well. I homeschooled three kids for about 6 years. I remember all of these things.
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desiderata310
VIP Member
@Kefira actually the idea of Char being a "durable medical device" cracked me up and still does. He's an eating,pooping, slobbering, grounding machine. LOVE it.
Right? Mine works so hard and is amazing, but he's so derpy. I mean, he'll be looking behind him and run into bookshelves. Or suddenly forget how stairs work and be terrified to walk down them. And he has such a fluffy undercoat, so for the past couple months when I've seen him it's been like a second rug.
This is my medical equipment? Lol.
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