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Deb, my friend killed herself this morning.

And it wasn't my fault.
No. It wasn’t your fault. You didn’t kill her. That decision was hers, and hers alone.

No matter how much we love someone, no matter how much we hate the decision they made or how much we wish we could change things or how much it hurts us, it was still their decision to make. Being affected by other people’s choices? Doesn’t make their choices our responsibility. No matter how much we might want them to be. They still have their own agency, and we ours.

The hole they left. The pain that fills it. <<< That’s our responsibility to sort out, our choices to make, to move forward in our lives once they’ve left.

...But since it falls unto my lot
That I should rise and you should not
I'll gently rise and I'll softly call
Good night and joy be with you all...
One of my favourite versions
 
Thread starter #134
The hole they left. The pain that fills it. <<< That’s our responsibility to sort out, our choices to make, to move forward in our lives once they’ve left.
Yes I am working on that. I try to keep tabs on things so they don't get away on me. I have found that is most important for me. Otherwise I dissociate and two years go by where I am completely disengaged.
 
Thread starter #136
So I have kind of accepted this now. It's a real shame. But it is what it is now. And I have split off from the people around her that didn't call an ambulance when she tried to drown herself in the pool but didn't succeed. They laughed at her saying that was a pathetic way to kill yourself. The incredible insensitivity and I had talked to her partner and explained that she was moving towards an attempt and then got my partner to talk to her partner as he is really sexist. Then I warned another friend in April that she was kind of spiraling up and that she wouldn't be here when she got back from overseas. My insights assisted no one, unfortunately but I did try. I wouldn't become hostage to her suicidal ideation though. I said no to going and being with her as I didn't want to end up a hostage. She put herself in a psych ward and then took herself out of one because it was too noisy. I did at times give her a lot of support but she couldn't or wouldn't do the work. She just kept doctor shopping. She had a lot of trauma in her childhood.

I guess when society stops seeing child abuse as not so bad that things will change. I think that will take a lot of time.
 
I agree. The abuse my brothers and I endured was horrific and I didn't even know. It has such a lifelong effect on our psyches, and interacts with everything we do. I understand how hard it is to go through what you've gone through, but I think we understand more than those not affected by huge amounts of trauma. Not trying to say anything good came of it, I just feel that I understand my brother's suicide better.
 
Thread starter #138
It has such a lifelong effect on our psyches, and interacts with everything we do.
It does. Right down to a cellular level.

I am doing Radical Acceptance about that now.


I understand how hard it is to go through what you've gone through, but I think we understand more than those not affected by huge amounts of trauma.
I wonder sometimes with 1 in 4 girls being sexually abused before they turn 15, how large or small that trauma is. In Australia 1 in 3 women will live with domestic violence in their lives. There's a lot of trauma out there.


Not trying to say anything good came of it, I just feel that I understand my brother's suicide better.
I remember when your brother committed suicide. I feel for you. I remember reading about it in your diary I think it was.



Yes it's the trauma and it is a really severe legacy.

I realise now that really I am the only one that made it out alive from the situation.

I am struggling myself.

I could direct her to resources and give suggestions but I couldn't give her what I don't have, a grounded sense in this now, an attachment she could heal with. I have reactive attachment disorder I find it very hard to remain connected to other folks. I was as good as a friend that I could be but that was all. I don't have the skills or the presence or the groundedness to help her. I can cheer folks on and give some of my very limited experiences of recovery and healing. My improvements are small modest, handmade moments.

I struggle with feeling bad and wrong. I block talk, block eat, block ruminate, block maladaptive day dreaming, dissociate, derealise and depersonalise. There's all these layers of flight, fight, freeze and fawn behaviours that I do. At least I can see those now. I have a bit more understanding of them.
 
At least I can see those now. I have a bit more understanding of them.
And that's important in keeping yourself well. It's a hard time anyway, but I think as long as we are noticing our behaviors, that means we are still healing.

but I think we understand more than those not affected by huge amounts of trauma.
I meant people without PTSD who call the victim of suicide "selfish". I know there is a lot of unknown trauma in our society, and I'm not putting that down, I just meant I understood more of the why of suicide than others who hadn't been faced with what he had been faced with.
 
Thread starter #140
I meant people without PTSD who call the victim of suicide "selfish". I know there is a lot of unknown trauma in our society, and I'm not putting that down, I just meant I understood more of the why of suicide than others who hadn't been faced with what he had been faced with.
Oh I understand better now. I did think you meant that because we have suffered tremendously that we understand her tremendous suffering. That having experienced trauma ourselves we kind of have a understanding...perhaps compassion. I don't know. I understood what you meant.

I didn't think Deb was selfish. I thought her brain was lying to her, and that her pain overwhelmed her.

I also think her bigotry against people with mental illness meant that she would comfortable with the physical symptoms of depression and doing the rounds of doctors because she didn't want to be depressed. She wanted it to be a physical illness or symptom, a physical illness.

The first gastroenterologist told her it wasn't a gut problem but depression. She didn't like the answer and so she started doctor shopping. I knew he was right but she was so angry I didn't disagree with her assessment of the situation. I don't think it would have helped if I said something, though, she would have just been angry with me. Maybe I could have risked that? No I just didn't have the skills that she needed. She wouldn't accept that she was depressed.

There was nothing more that I could do and I did give her a lot of support. My own issues means I am really not the one to assist other people.
 
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I know my brother thought he knew what he wanted at the time.Whether or not I agree with it, is not up to me. I have to respect his decision but I totally think he thought life was over. We grew up differently but he was introduced to severe trauma by the time, me and my other brother, was introduced to his life. I was out of the home but I knew it was bad.I joined the military at the time but that didn't take away my trauma.I has more trauma to follow after I was married. Physical and mental abuse, is beyond bad.
 
Thread starter #143
Who knows @ms spock , they call the gut the 2nd brain, maybe she intuited something, and felt they minimized what she was saying/ she was unheard?
That is not helpful to feel unheard, that is for sure.

I did lend her my book "The Gut Connection." But what she had did have physical manifestations that is for sure, but her lack of acceptance of it meant she killed herself. It's kind of sad that her bigotry towards mental illness.

You were a good friend, not your fault. :hug:
Thanks
 
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